'Nother stove & placement thread, sorry :P

[R9R]

Hi all,

I've made a few posts here, been lurking for a bit, was doing the whole pellet vs. wood stove thing for a couple months now. Pretty much decided on pellet for less clearance needs = less room taken inside, comparative ease of venting, and less time required (assuming everything works right) in fuel. I'm fairly handy so not terribly scared of component replacement, other than the "man I just got this thing" aspect

At any rate, I figured before I get that far and put anything in the truck to come home, figured I'd let you all enjoy another stove & placement thread . Amazing how everyone brings up awesome points that maybe the OP (me now ) hadn't thought of. And at this point oops-ies are free

House: ~2100 SF new (2016 new) modular double-wide on block crawlspace. 2x6 exterior walls with whatever the home center's better insulation package was. Blown-in insulation in ceiling. I can feel some cold air leaking in around windows, so this spring a tube (or several) of caulk is going to be my friend if they won't warranty that. I'll attach a floor plan (shamelessly stolen from home center's website, I sure don't make anything that pretty). Most time spent between "gather" and "hub." Furnace is 100% electric, works fine, just not cheap Intent is to use pellets for sole heat source. Furnace will be there if needed, just don't want to run it if I can help it. Red box = current 1st choice for placement. Blue box = current alternative choice for placement. Placement along interior middle wall (horizontal in picture) is not an option as it would vent up too close to marriage line of house and possibly interfere with roof warranty

I understand there's going to be temp differences as this is not a furnace. Assuming I'll use an electric heater in the master bath/bedroom area to supplement as needed. I'm good restacking/transporting/storing/lugging bags-o-pellets. Good with filling the hopper. Bigger hopper would be preferred. Also assuming small fans on the floor will be my friend. Ceiling fan will be installed in the stove room - before the stove, I already have one

Anyhoo - I found a Englander/Summer's Heat 55-SHP22 on local CL listed for $800. Assuming I can talk down from that. However I'm not sure that's "enough" stove for what I'm trying to do. If can't get cheaper, AMFM has one for I think $899 shipped, or the CB120 for $1300. I do not have a Harman budget. I'm planning/budgeting ~2k for stove & self-install. We'll see when I do my taxes. BTU- & budget-wise looking at PelPro PP130, Vogelzang 5790 (though I've not read fantastic things about those), recently stumbled on posts here referencing the Enviro Maxx/Maxx 55. I've not made it through pricing and such for that option as yet.

So, fire away! Thoughts/suggestions/hey-you-forgot/what-the-hecks?

 

[jackman]

I would put the stove where the blue box is located on a diagonal so the blower air will directly fill the hub space more completely. Absolutely install an outside air kit (OAK). You may be able to vent thru the wall rather than the roof if there's sufficient clearance from the windows.

 

[R9R]

Plan is for OAK & thru-wall vent. Already have the vent coming actually

Was kinda wondering about that placement too, most all stoves I've seen have the control panel on the back right, which would be exactly in the hardest spot to get to if I go with the red box Plus now that I think about it vent clearance from windows & doors might be easier to meet there. Thanks for the input!

 

[bogieb]

First thing I noticed was that if you put it where the red box is, clearance for the exhaust looks pretty iffy I too vote for the corner install at an angle toward the "Hub". Keep in mind that the toughest place to heat will be the master bath. There are two retreats (2&3) that will be tough as will the master cottage. May have to use fans. May not - sometimes air currants (or lack there of) can be tough to predict.

Not sure as a first stove that I would go the CL route with the cheaper stoves. When it is a Harmon or St. Croix (for example) that is one thing. Those are tanks and even neglect for a couple of years won't make them doorstops. However, the cheaper stoves, if neglected may become problematic. At that price point, might as well get yourself a new one.

Also, looks like that Summer's heat is rated as 2,200 sq/ft. You have 2,100 sq/ft. Doesn't give you much wiggle room on those really cold and/or windy nights. It is better to get more stove than you need than not have all the pony's you need when it is -15 and the wind chill is -35!

 

[tbear853]

Of the two, I vote for the BLUE box area in SE corner of drawing, but angled 45 degrees towards center of GATHER room and opening to HUB. I read that you are going to supplement heat in master with something like infared heater. Those are cheap enough and wife and I use a couple ....(though I would strongly advise running them on high and checking cord / plug temps .... I had one good quality one that the plug was warm, a molded plug molded around the wire to spade connection. Opened up and saw sorce of heat, subbed a HD one from Lowes, now it and cord stay cool). You could get a few smaller ones to have on hand for the guest retreats as desired.

Allow for a place to keep a bag or two of pellets handy ..... there'll be times you have a half bag to store overnight. Mine sit beside the hearth I built. Also, if the stove has a lid that's over top the pellet hopper, you can likely use a small fan or oscillating fan to move the heat further across the room.

If the guest retreats are not regularly occupied, I'd look at that opposite corner way across the house in the NW corner of the drawings HUB room, still at a 45 degree, pointing towards DINE area and run flue out back wall .... maybe add a shelter outside near MUD room door for storage of pellets. I'd also add ceiling fans in HUB and DINE & GATHER rooms if not already there.



Outside, I took my my up piece of pipe 15 feet up so it clears my roof well for good draft and NO discoloring of house.

 

[R9R]

Thanks tbear!

The other 3 BR's/retreats are occupied on a regular basis. #3 is full time, and #2 & #4 alternate weekly with our kiddos'/other parents' living arrangements. By summer #4 will be occupied full time as well. The entry from "mud" is elevated as house is situated on a hill, with a minimal (did I mention small?) deck outside with stairs down to grade, probably 8' or so. I'd fudge something to keep a few days or a week's worth directly outside the front entry (covered/sheltered somehow or another) so I can work from that. Have a place in mind inside for the random partial bag or next day's supply or something like that. I have a fan to install in "gather." If I run across good deals on a few more I'll add elsewhere. If cheapie floor level fans don't do it I'll add regardless lol. In all honesty I'm less worried about bedrooms being 70+, that's what blankets are for I'm thinking a little thermometer in the master bath cabinet since the water's on an outside wall there just to keep an eye on things.

I never really considered discoloration on the siding Brand new house and all, wife would probably kill me

I really appreciate yalls help so far. There's a wealth of knowledge here about any and everything related (or not ) to burning!

 

[tbear853]

Love those new flannel sheet sets we just stocked up on at Target.

There's also the question of clean up and in between trips with a partial fill in the ash pan to a safe place outside. I have some heavy insul leather work gloves that I use for that .... used to use them for dragging dead deer / bear by legs out of interstate as well as general lifting of other hazards ..... wouldn't want to make them trips up & down steps. I might would build a landing over the rail for a big steel trash can though?

Let us know how it all pans out . ..........

 

[R9R]

Good call on ash collection. Front door is on grade so I just figured a steel can w/lid sitting outside. Front door is the one next to red box. Eventually I'm planning a front enclosed porch, could design in a pellet closet and maybe easier access to ash collection.

I have the same thoughts on stove sizing bogie. Probably be ok most days, but just last week we had wind chills at -10 or so for a few days. That's why the consideration for the higher BTU stoves. Still looking and pricing. Of course if I happen to get a windfall I'd just get a P61A and call it a day

 

[bogieb]

Course, using tbear853's model, you could put two small stoves in; one in the blue and one in the green. Then you can angle them toward bedrooms - although that master bath will always be cooler. Neither would have to work overly hard, or on semi-warm days (40's) then you could only run one stove. Also, if one stove goes on the blink, then you still have the other to crank up (it wouldn't heat the whole house, but would keep the electric heat from running as much)..

Also, instead of floor fans, you might consider doorway fans. They would be directly moving the warm air into bedrooms and do a pretty good job despite how small they are. You can get them pretty cheap - just search on the net some as some places try to collect their kids' tuition from them

 

[alternativeheat]

Two Castle Serenities if to go with two stoves , put one in one spot or the other this year, and the other in the other spot next year. You pick the spot ( I'd go with green or Bear's). And it could turn out that one is sufficient, in which case I'd start with Bear's plan. If grade is a problem for horizontal venting go vertical, then vent stain becomes a non issue, as does wind direction effecting venting. Modular homes are too tight not to have OAK, so plan on that.

Last I knew you could buy a Serenity at TSC for $799 brand new and there is plenty of support for them within the forum here..

You could also go with one stove and let the electric cycle once in a while in the extreme cold weather, you might be surprised how little it runs and how miserly, with the stove being the main heat and electric the supplemental heat. What's the difference to run some space heaters or to let the electric central heat cycle now and then ? Probably pennies. Don't compare it to your current electric bills, th electric won't be running very much and only on the coldest weather.

 

[bogieb]

Or the Pelpro PP60 (35k btu = 1500 sq/ft) & PP130 (50k btu = 2200 sq/ft) are on sale at TSC for $800 & $950 (respectively). They both have a decent sized hopper and ash pan with a 5 star rating out of a bunch of reviews. Don't know anything about those stoves, but certainly it is time to look hard at them while they are on sale.

TSC website

Edit - not in stores and it looks like $120 shipping for at least the smaller stove - just an FYI

 

[alternativeheat]

Or the Pelpro PP60 (35k btu = 1500 sq/ft) & PP130 (50k btu = 2200 sq/ft) are on sale at TSC for $800 & $950 (respectively). They both have a decent sized hopper and ash pan with a 5 star rating out of a bunch of reviews. Don't know anything about those stoves, but certainly it is time to look hard at them while they are on sale.

TSC website

Edit - not in stores and it looks like $120 shipping for at least the smaller stove - just an FYI

They had Kings locally at 25% off and those were in stock in house ( 25% might have been the floor model, they had been 20% all fall and early winter). We have some King users here in the forum who have a really good handle on them. And the Kings have a huge 120lb hopper.

 

[R9R]

Thanks Bogie. I still have floor fans stuck in my brain from when I was considering a wood stove lol. I've seen those on Amazon and such but never really paid attention. Maybe I should

See that's what I mean with throwing ideas out here. I hadn't really seriously considered 2 stoves. Nor the difference between running a space heater vs the furnace. Actually the furnace idea may be better as it would send heat through the ducts under the house and (hopefully) keep things flowing down there. Our pressure tank from the well is down there after all I mean the ducts are in the insulation blanket or whatever they call it, but still... Thanks for that alternativeheat. It makes perfect sense but I never would have put that together.

I really like that. I've read nothing but good - well, awesome really - things about the Serenity. Quick google shows them $799 + ~$170 tax & shipping right now . That might be the ticket. Then (hopefully) some $$ left for pellets. HD carries as well, with what looks like free ship-to-store. Gonna see if they'll price match I think we have a plan

Clarification - front of the house was built on grade - as in level with the ground with the "standard" front steps. As opposed to the back door which is 8' or so high with the small landing & stairs.

 

[alternativeheat]

Thanks Bogie. I still have floor fans stuck in my brain from when I was considering a wood stove lol. I've seen those on Amazon and such but never really paid attention. Maybe I should

See that's what I mean with throwing ideas out here. I hadn't really seriously considered 2 stoves. Nor the difference between running a space heater vs the furnace. Actually the furnace idea may be better as it would send heat through the ducts under the house and (hopefully) keep things flowing down there. Our pressure tank from the well is down there after all I mean the ducts are in the insulation blanket or whatever they call it, but still... Thanks for that alternativeheat. It makes perfect sense but I never would have put that together.

I really like that. I've read nothing but good - well, awesome really - things about the Serenity. Quick google shows them $799 + ~$170 tax & shipping right now . That might be the ticket. Then (hopefully) some $$ left for pellets. HD carries as well, with what looks like free ship-to-store. Gonna see if they'll price match I think we have a plan

Clarification - front of the house was built on grade - as in level with the ground with the "standard" front steps. As opposed to the back door which is 8' or so high with the small landing & stairs.

Yep.

 

[R9R]

PP130 was one of the original contenders, I work almost next door to a Menards and they ship-to-store free. They're doing their 11% as well...

Edit - meant to add I really like the bigger hopper too

 

[alternativeheat]

PP130 was one of the original contenders, I work almost next door to a Menards and they ship-to-store free. They're doing their 11% as well...

Edit - meant to add I really like the bigger hopper too

Have you checked out the King model ( US Stoves) from TSC, they were stocking them in stores and they have 120lb hopper. Still listed on sale at something like $879 or some such thing.

I don't know much about the Pelpro stoves and we don't have a ton of users here fwiw. Not saying they are bad, I don't know much about them is all.

You should know that not all stoves are user friendly with all pellets, some stoves in fact can be nightmarish with some pellets and great with others. Just saying.

 

[R9R]

The PP130 made the "check on" list because if I understand right it's same parent company as Harman/Quadra. I haven't ran across a ton on here about them either. From what I've seen they have generally positive reviews on retailer sites.

I'll have to check out the USSC King. Haven't even looked

I figured I'll go through the try-a-few-bags-of-this-and-that that it seems like most have gone through. See what the stove likes out of what I can get and go from there

 

[alternativeheat]

Often it's more about the operator being not aware or just lazy regarding resetting the stove for various pellets. On the other hand there are some stoves that you can just dump any old pellet into and they keep on ticking so to speak. The Serenity owners don't seem to complain much about pellets for instance, and us Harman owners also. Ya we don't like the extra ash of a crappy pellet but the stove keeps going with little or no adjustment. I've met people at the retailers who have said to me as I'm grabbing some bags of pellets, that their stove won't burn those pellets, go here you will get a better pellet. I just answer " ya I know" . In one case the pellets were FSU,my stove burns them fine, I figured everyone's stove did LOL ! Guess not.

Now see, right now this is not much of an issue but at times when pellets are scarce and that can happen, it's nice to be able to grab what ever comes along. Ask anyone who went through winter with a pellet stove a couple of years ago or so about that. Cold winter, fuel oil crunch, pellets in high demand and the pellet companies with frozen equipment etc. It was one of those odd years where things were tough, demand high on pellet fuel and supply short.

 

[bogieb]

The PP130 made the "check on" list because if I understand right it's same parent company as Harman/Quadra. I haven't ran across a ton on here about them either. From what I've seen they have generally positive reviews on retailer sites.

I'll have to check out the USSC King. Haven't even looked

I figured I'll go through the try-a-few-bags-of-this-and-that that it seems like most have gone through. See what the stove likes out of what I can get and go from there

Just a tip, go online and look at the manuals for each of the stoves you are considering. They will tell you how often you need to clean various things (like firepot, ash pan etc). I looked at the Pelpro manual and found that they are top feeders - which I had in my mind that they should be bottom feeders since they are a Harman product. Not a good or bad thing (My Hastings was a top feeder and it did just fine), just something that surprised me.

 

[Lake Girl]

The PP130 made the "check on" list because if I understand right it's same parent company as Harman/Quadra

They are owned by the same parent company but are the budget model. From what I've seen here, a price conscious choice would be USSC or Castle Serenity. Both seem to have a greater degree of adjustment on feed and draft.

 

[alternativeheat]

Just a tip, go online and look at the manuals for each of the stoves you are considering. They will tell you how often you need to clean various things (like firepot, ash pan etc). I looked at the Pelpro manual and found that they are top feeders - which I had in my mind that they should be bottom feeders since they are a Harman product. Not a good or bad thing (My Hastings was a top feeder and it did just fine), just something that surprised me.

I'm not sure if Harman and Pelpro share much of anything except the parent company. I have no idea.

 

[Tails1]

Often it's more about the operator being not aware or just lazy regarding resetting the stove for various pellets. On the other hand there are some stoves that you can just dump any old pellet into and they keep on ticking so to speak. The Serenity owners don't seem to complain much about pellets for instance, and us Harman owners also. Ya we don't like the extra ash of a crappy pellet but the stove keeps going with little or no adjustment. I've met people at the retailers who have said to me as I'm grabbing some bags of pellets, that their stove won't burn those pellets, go here you will get a better pellet. I just answer " ya I know" . In one case the pellets were FSU,my stove burns them fine, I figured everyone's stove did LOL ! Guess not.

Now see, right now this is not much of an issue but at times when pellets are scarce and that can happen, it's nice to be able to grab what ever comes along. Ask anyone who went through winter with a pellet stove a couple of years ago or so about that. Cold winter, fuel oil crunch, pellets in high demand and the pellet companies with frozen equipment etc. It was one of those odd years where things were tough, demand high on pellet fuel and supply short.

^^This x10 ..I have a rare Ford Ranger diesel truck and I get gas station operators yelling at me over the intercom, telling me I'm putting diesel in a gas truck lol. I just answer "yeah I know" lol.

. A pellet stove should be able to burn whatever pellets you can get, crappier pellets will produce more ash but they should still be able to be used. Only exception is pellets that have too much moisture as that is understandable. Not everyone lives where there is choice in brands either. If the stove has trouble with certain brands IMO it is poorly designed. Even a good performing brand of pellet can change from year to year as well so having a fussy stove would be a problem.

My stove has burned everything I have tried in it even corn mixed with the pellets, only thing I have had to do is tweak the air/feed settings on a couple of brands to get them to burn cleanly. I'm currently burning a softwood pellet many would consider poor however for me they burn fine but do produce allot of ash. Price was right too at 150 a tonne.

 

[R9R]

$150/ton, nice

I was originally considering a wood stove, so I was prepared for some "normal" tinkering and such anyhoo. Not buying this instant anyway, just hope the current sales aren't the end-o-season ones. I don't have my tax $ back yet

 

[alternativeheat]

$150/ton, nice

I was originally considering a wood stove, so I was prepared for some "normal" tinkering and such anyhoo. Not buying this instant anyway, just hope the current sales aren't the end-o-season ones. I don't have my tax $ back yet

Actually the sales have been on pretty much all season fwiw. Usually around here mid Feb starts marking the end of "things pellet" and retailers put out all the Chinese spring junk they have to offer.

 

[R9R]

Lol right. Hopefully I make my mind up by then...

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