Old Princess cats compared to new

[Doug Morford]

Hi,

I'm looking at buying an older used Princess off Craigslist, but was hoping there's some knowledge here about how Blaze King has evolved their technology through the years. Here's a link to the ad:
(broken link removed to http://pullman.craigslist.org/for/4738754882.html)

I've contacted him about the model, year, condition of the combustor, condition of the thermostat, and where the air inlet is on the inside of the fire box.

I'm really just curious to know the efficiency of these stoves in their earlier years. The earliest EPA Cat-Princess model (PEJ-1002) made is reported to have put off 3.7 G/Hr while the newest princess puts off 2.4 G/Hr with an efficiency of around 81%. Do the inefficiencies and emissions correlate somewhat where I'd be able to guess the efficiency of the older model? I think it will be better than what I have right now either way, which is an 89' quadrafire 3000 which puts off 6.5 G/Hr and is probably 65/70% with 9 hr burn times.

This stove doesn't have glass, which I'm not excited about. However, it's possible that the older models didn't have air wash, and instead the air entered from lower in the fire box, so it wouldn't matter anyway. If it does have an air wash I would probably attempt to install glass.

I'd also obviously try to get him down on the price closer to the resale value of my quadrafire.

I'm really interested in everybody's thoughts.

 

[daleeper]

Well you have to make some decisions as to what is most important to you. You are already asking the right questions about stove function, and understand that the price is too high. If you are needing a stove right now, and the price can be worked down, assuming the cat and all parts are in good shape, then it would make a good heater for you. Condition of the wood will make more difference in the efficiency of burn, than the difference between that model and the current one in my opinion, assuming the stove is working properly. I would not get hung up on efficiency ratings between the stoves myself.

One of my must have's was glass in the door. Somewhat overrated, because my glass has been mostly black because I burn the stove low most of the time, but I can still see what is going on in there without opening the door. I guess the cat thermometer does tell you for the most part when most of the load has been burned, but I wanted the glass.

To me the price is way out of line for just a stove, I guess there is some value to the chimney if you need it and it is in good shape, but I wouldn't figure much value on that chimney at all, as it is used.

If you already have a wood stove, and are burning it correctly, I would wait for your perfect stove to come around. If you are without a stove, and need to get started right away, then this one might work for you, until you find your "dream" stove.

 

[Highbeam]

Don't worry about the emissions or efficiency. It just doesn't matter that much. Especially on an old stove like that. Be most worried about which "generation" of stove that is as there were some versions that didn't even have a cat. Also, some versions had some wonky linkage that is prone to failure inside.

I have a BK, BKs are great. An old broken BK may be worse than just burning your quad.

 

[mellow]

For one that does not look like it has been seldom used, maybe by him but not by the previous owner. Two, that price is sky high, I see those older princesses sell for $300-$500 all the time. That double wall pipe might add another $100 in value depending on condition.

I would let this one go.

 

[Doug Morford]

Yeah, I know better about the price. I'm not going to buy it for more than around 450 (with a healthy cat and working thermostat).

I know it's a cat stove, but was just wondering how much different the new cat princesses are from the new cat princesses. If the new princesses are a lot better than these, I'd probably pass. But if they are just a little better, then this might be a screaming deal for me if I can get him down to a reasonable price. Basically, if it's in working order, am I going to be able to get 20-30 hr burn times?

The wonky linkage... is that in regard to the thermostat? I feel that would be easy to fix if it breaks. I could be wrong though.

I'll be going to look at it today, pretty much just to see what it looks like. Also to let him know that he's way out of line with the price.

 

[mellow]

That is a good garage stove, seriously. I am not sure if that older model even has a bimetallic air intake on it, that would be another thing to inspect on it.

Give BK a call once you take a look at it and find the exact model number and they can let you know part costs.

 

[Highbeam]

The wonky linkage... is that in regard to the thermostat? I feel that would be easy to fix if it breaks. I could be wrong though.

I'll be going to look at it today, pretty much just to see what it looks like. Also to let him know that he's way out of line with the price.

They had a wonky linkage that would automatically open the cat bypass when the loading door was opened. Look for a button type thing inside the loading door. A hard run BK will have failed bypass gasket framework where the bypass door shuts. It's a steel stove and is decades old so expect that corrosion and use could have bent, melted, warped, or cracked things when inspecting it. Look for cracks around the loading door on the face.

When he bought that stove brand new I expect it was less than 1500$.

 

[Doug Morford]

I looked at it, and I can understand the high price now. The stove is practically new. It has some dust on it from storage, but it's the original cat and is in perfect condition, bricks are perfect, paint is perfect, and he has 21' of 8" double wall that comes with it. Still over priced though, and I don't need pipe.

The design is different from the newer princess. The cat is in the first section of pipe and is integrated with the butterfly bypass. So basically the cat IS the bypass. I don't like that design because the cold dirty gases at start up go right by the cat and shortens its life, and I doubt the bypass seals perfectly because there is no gasket involved. Is this possibly just an added on cat setup to what was originally a non- cat stove? I'd like to know for looking at future stoves.

I'll keep looking...

My current stove works great with the updated dry (I promise it's very dry) larch and d. fir. It just cooks me out of the house sometimes cuz I can't turn it down low enough.

 

[Highbeam]

It just cooks me out of the house sometimes cuz I can't turn it down low enough.

The non-cats are great at that, especially in a small home. To be honest, my modern princess has been cooking us out lately because nightime temps are still well into the 50s. It's just a weird and warm winter.

 

[Doug Morford]

In this picture of the stove he was selling, I've circled the damper/cat that I'm talking about. It just sits on top of the flue outlet. Is this just a Frankenstein pre-epa cat stove? My understanding is that the PEJ-1002 is the earliest epa princess with a cat, and it's not designed like this.

(broken image removed)

 

[Doug Morford]

I agree. It has been pretty hot. It's been in the 40-50 range here during the day, and 30-40's at night. I'm in a pretty small place though, so it doesn't take much before the doors and windows get opened. During the winter it's perfect.

 

[mellow]

Pretty sure that is an add on cat, never seen a BK with one of those before.

(broken link removed)

 

[jeff_t]

I don't know for sure, but I don't think a catalytic stove would come with a fire screen.

If you haven't looked already, you can get all the old manuals on BK's website.

 

[Doug Morford]

I'm glad I didn't bite. I think he was pretty annoyed with me when I told him I didn't think it was worth half the price he was asking. I hope he doesn't fool some un-suspecting buyer; he was quite a little salesman.

 

[Doug Morford]

"A stove is a stove." were his words when I said it's not the same as the new princess, which is what he was basing his asking price from.

 

[Highbeam]

Half of the price of a new one is fine for relatively new stuff in great shape. That's old.

 

[BKVP]

From the picture, I see no by pass handle on the right hand side. I see no cat thermometer or hole for one, but that is an easy miss. BUT, we NEVER made a cat stove that had a screen that could be put on the front instead of the door! That would ruin the cat here and now.

The stove is more than likely our PT202. Contributors here are correct, it's worth next to nothing. PASS.

 

[jeff_t]

From the picture, I see no by pass handle on the right hand side.

I thought the bypass was opened with the door on some older stoves? Were those stoves not catalytic?

 

[BKVP]

I thought the bypass was opened with the door on some older stoves? Were those stoves not catalytic?

The model you are thinking of was the KEJ1101. There was a concern in Oregon DEQ in the early 1980's that folks would not remember to close the by pass, The "button" was in the inside of the door frame and when closed would partially close the by pass. It had no function with or role in the opening of the door.

Chris

 

[jeff_t]

I see. So they all still have the handle on the right side?

 

[Doug Morford]

This stove didn't have a bypass at all because there is nothing to bypass (no cat). So no, no handle. This stove is basically a metal box with holes in the front and top.

 

[Parallax]

Here's another old Princess:

(broken link removed to http://seattle.craigslist.org/sno/app/4744171028.html)

This one's in Snohomish. Probably not catalytic.

 

[Highbeam]

Awesome. Chrome chimney pipe!

 

[Parallax]

It's all the rage! Goes great with green shag carpet.

 

[Doug Morford]

Maybe I'll give him a call and see what he has. I'm sure that bling pipe will re-sell just fine.