Older Vermont Castings Stove and Hearth Questions

[Tgomes]

I have here an older VC Defiant that I was hoping to get installed on a new hearth.

Trying to make the right decisions on a few things.

I have picked up a 6 inch liner kit and am in the process of cleaning and wire brushing it out.

Can’t find much info on the model. Just seems to have a 2 piece rear cover. The lower portion has holes for gasses to pass through but nothing behind. Should be a picture of that.

Hope it will serve us well for years to come. I do have some questions and concerns about the hearth pad install. My plan was to put feather out that existing crete pad with 1/2 hardibacker and tile or slate over

Wondering if I need to add a second layer of backer over it all making it about an inch thick. Or raise the whole pad entirely.

Lastly I have a picture of the framing underneath. Wondering if anything needs to be done to sure it up or is it just fine.

Thank you for your help!

 

[fbelec]

hi the stove should take 8 inch pipe. if you plan on using the stove in fireplace mode it might not draft well with a 6 inch pipe. as a stove it might work if it is tall enough. underneath framing should be ok. i would also change the door gaskets. looks like there is a air leak. that is why the stove is whitish gray in the front. if it is leaking air it's going to burn hot in the front and you won't get a long burn out of it. make sure you clean out behind the firebacks at the end of the year. if there is build up of ash back there the firebacks will warp and burn thru. look in this sites wiki for a manual to rebuild that old defiant

 

[Tgomes]

Any advice on building a hearth?

 

[peakbagger]

Sorry to ruin your day but an original Defiant needs an 8" flue especially if anyone tries to use if with the front doors open. Is going to be difficult to light a fire into a cold stack with 6" and swapping over to secondary burn will rarely work well. It was designed by folks who literally lived in a poorly insulated "barn" in VT and were oversized for most modern homes. VC very quickly came out with smaller models (Resolute and Intrepid). Sure some folks have gotten away with 6" and live with the issues if the stack is tall and an interior chimney. I own one of them, bought it used, converted it to the two piece fireback and eventually had to rebuild it again when the lower fireback warped again after a lot of hard steady use and used it in my basement to heat my entire house with an 8" flue and it was a great stove for the time.

Secondly it looks like you may be missing parts. There is a " there and back" rebuilding instruction manual, here is link https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/advice-on-old-defiant.189248/#post-2544154. Spend some time looking at it and making sure you have all the parts. The two piece fireback makes it worth rebuilding if all the parts are there and the firebacks are not warped (they should be flat on the fire side and interlock. In theory when reassembled, the holes in the fireback feed air from the secondary air port which is the swing up port on the lower left hand corner of the load door end to the secondary burn chamber on the right side of the stove. Air also runs runs through a tube that is formed with refractory and a dowel in between the back of the fireback and the rear casting of the stove. Its formed in the channel that is cast in the back of the stove and the back of the lower fireback. This preheats the air for the seconday burn chamber. Since your fireback appears to be out of the stove you will need to do this as explained in the manual I linked.

 

[Tgomes]

Well for what it’s worth I hope I can get away with it. We have a masonry chimney with a clay liner. We installed a stainless liner kit that silicones to the top and makes a great seal. Hopefully the setup will draft accordingly.

Still working on the hearth frame. Hopefully tomorrow I can get it all together with a couple sheets of durarock.

The unit was fully assembled when we got it. Since then we took apart the fireback side plate and damper to make sure the back area was clear and it was. Gave the inside a wire brush and vacuumed it all out. Everything is in good shape. We have new gaskets ready to go in and a new thermostat

 

[bholler]

Well for what it’s worth I hope I can get away with it. We have a masonry chimney with a clay liner. We installed a stainless liner kit that silicones to the top and makes a great seal. Hopefully the setup will draft accordingly.

Still working on the hearth frame. Hopefully tomorrow I can get it all together with a couple sheets of durarock.

The unit was fully assembled when we got it. Since then we took apart the fireback side plate and damper to make sure the back area was clear and it was. Gave the inside a wire brush and vacuumed it all out. Everything is in good shape. We have new gaskets ready to go in and a new thermostatView attachment 301064 View attachment 301065

Is the liner insulated?

 

[Tgomes]

Is the liner insulated?

No it’s not. But if I don’t seal off the fireplace hot air should rise into the chimney cavity. The liner seals to the top of the clay essentially trapping house air in there around the liner pipe. If there’s a safety concern having it not insulated I am unaware.

 

[bholler]

No it’s not. But if I don’t seal off the fireplace hot air should rise into the chimney cavity. The liner seals to the top of the clay essentially trapping house air in there around the liner pipe. If there’s a safety concern having it not insulated I am unaware.

Does your chimney have the required clearances to combustibles from. The outside of the masonry structure? It needs 1" for an external chimney 2" for an internal one.

 

[Tgomes]

Does your chimney have the required clearances to combustibles from. The outside of the masonry structure? It needs 1" for an external chimney 2" for an internal one.

Not sure what you’re asking? The exterior the chimney is quite higher than the house on an exterior wall.

 

[bholler]

Not sure what you’re asking? The exterior the chimney is quite higher than the house on an exterior wall.

The outer wall of the chimney needs to have space between it and anything that can burn. You are allowed to have trim touching the corners of the chimney.

 

[Tgomes]

The outer wall of the chimney needs to have space between it and anything that can burn. You are allowed to have trim touching the corners of the chimney.

View attachment 301078 View attachment 301079 View attachment 301080

Wasn’t aware of all of this. I had assumed that if it was good enough for a fireplace it would be good enough for a wood stove. It was built in 92

 

[bholler]

Wasn’t aware of all of this. I had assumed that if it was good enough for a fireplace it would be good enough for a wood stove. It was built in 92

If it doesn't have that clearance it wasn't good enough for the fireplace either. And now that you installed a new appliance you are responsible to bring it up to code.

 

[Tgomes]

If it doesn't have that clearance it wasn't good enough for the fireplace either. And now that you installed a new appliance you are responsible to bring it up to code.

Also to note the stainless liner isn’t pressed into the chimney fully. There is an air gap around the liner to the clay innard which would create an air gap

 

[bholler]

Also to note the stainless liner isn’t pressed into the chimney fully. There is an air gap around the liner to the clay innard which would create an air gap

That doesn't matter. To meet code without those clearances you need an insulated liner. In addition it greatly improves performance

 

[sprayman64]

I have a vigilant 1/1a with coal conversion kit. The coal mag is long gone. The previous owner burned wood on shaker rack. Can you burn coal in this stove effectivly on rack without usi g coal mag?

 

[Mijoka]

But if I don’t seal off the fireplace hot air should rise into the chimney cavity. The liner seals to the top of the clay essentially trapping house air in there around the liner pipe.

I see references about sealing off the top and bottom of the flue cavity between the liner and the flue walls. I can see how trapping heat in there can help keep the liner warm but then I wonder "what becomes of trapped moisture that accumulates in that space during the non-heating months?" Moisture is not a friend of masonry, especially older soft brick masonry.