One stove down!

[jharkin]

(I need to come up out of the basement more often... missing all the chatter.....)


Wow Joful, sorry to hear about all the trouble. (thought it makes us VC guys feel not so alone in the hearth world )

I don't have any miracle solution for you but some random thoughts....

Ive never had an ash plugging on mine either, so you might be right that issues is more specific to Woodstocks, or at least updraft designs.

You seem to be having worse luck than I did with the steelcat. Sure I did a job on mine in 3 years, but I know that was from user abuse. I had it over 1800 on 3 or 4 occasions and at least once to 2000 that I know of and it warped. But I didn't have any cracks or plugging.

Having the cat sit at 550 for 15 minutes than slowly climb to 1300 over a half hour doesn't seem that normal to me. When I get one that stalls out at 500 I go back on bypass and heat up the flue more to try again. I might be pushing the limits with strain on the chimney, but usually another 5-10 minutes heating up rewards me with a lightoff to 1100 in under a minute.

You are definitely on the right track about moisture content wit large splits if you had one that just never burned (wow thats a first Ive heard of).... I got a stormed downed b locust 2 years ago which is supposed to dry fast so I split it big - like 8" splits. After one full summer the moisture was only down to 30% ! so I resplit a bunch and re-stacked it into single rows for a second summer. I might try burning some this year, but will probably mix it with dryer stuff.

 

[Ashful]

Having the cat sit at 550 for 15 minutes than slowly climb to 1300 over a half hour doesn't seem that normal to me. When I get one that stalls out at 500 I go back on bypass and heat up the flue more to try again. I might be pushing the limits with strain on the chimney, but usually another 5-10 minutes heating up rewards me with a lightoff to 1100 in under a minute.

It's funny, how many different ways there are to run one of these stoves. I spent my first two seasons doing as you do, pushing the stove in bypass longer and hotter than I'd like (I'd routinely see 700F, 800F, even higher on the stove pipe in bypass), to force a light-off to 1100F when I'd close that bypass door. However, several here convinced me I was pushing my stove much harder than I should, or needed to.

Others have suggested that, as long as my cat hits 500+ within a few minutes of closing the bypass, and continues to climb, just leave it alone. I pull out the old Jotul manual, and note it has the same advice, stating, "catalytic combustor may take 15 minutes to reach operating temperature at full air control after closing the bypass damper," or something to that effect. So, now I just get the stovetop to 550F, make sure I have a nice strong flame over the entire load, and close that damper. It usually goes up to somewhere in the 550 - 750F range, and then hangs there for a bit. Maybe 15 - 30 minutes. But, as long as I don't see temps falling again, I'll just leave it burn like that at 1/2 to full throttle (keeping stove-top in the 500 - 600F range the whole time). After a while, the cat eventually takes off, and I've avoided pushing my stovetop to 700F / stove pipe to 800F, in the meantime.

The plugged cat seems to be a one-time incident, and I'm still debating the reason. It could be that enormous split of 1-year walnut I dropped down behind the coals in the back of the firebox, or it could be that the cat appears to be restricted from deformation (even though I'm almost 100% it's never seen 1800F).

In any case, when you have a slow day, give this new method a try. It's been working great for me, with much less interaction, wasted time, and pushing of the stove, than the method we were both using previously.

 

[Ashful]

To re-enforce the above, I loaded one of my stoves about 40 minutes ago, and engaged the cat about 25 minutes ago. The cat probe went up to 700+, and just hung there, so I left it running on 3/4 air with a stove top temp around 500 - 550F. I just checked it again, and it's now up to 1310F, which must have occurred in just the last 5 minutes. Time to lower the air. Stove top never went beyond 550F, and I'll be setting it to cruise below 400F, as it's bright and sunny today (presently 34F outside, going up to 39F later).

 

[oldspark]

It could be that enormous split of 1-year walnut I dropped down behind the coals in the back of the firebox, or it could be that the cat appears to be restricted from deformation (even though I'm almost 100% it's never seen 1800F).

I cut some Walnut 2 and a half years ago (med size splits) and for the most part it seemed to take 2 years to dry well.

 

[jharkin]

In any case, when you have a slow day, give this new method a try. It's been working great for me, with much less interaction, wasted time, and pushing of the stove, than the method we were both using previously.

I had tried that in the past, problem is - and maybe this is just VC and not Jotul - when I let the cat just sit there at 500 and wait it out, outside my chimney is smoking out the neighborhood like an OWB full of wet logs. It was pissing off my wife and the neighbors.


Letting the stove heat up more never pushed my griddle past 650. I have no idea what the stack temps are as I cant get a thermo on the liner up in the brick chimney....

 

[Ashful]

Ahh... neighbors. How I loathe them!

Mine has a little color to the smoke in that mode, but it's not heavy, and seems to go mostly straight up off the chimney. Maybe you were fighting wetter wood, back when you tried it, and your wood has improved, since?

 

[Ashful]

So, I'd been sitting aside several very large splits all week, as they turned up in my pile. These are all oak or walnut, and mostly two-hand lifts, as I can't get my hand (glove size = medium) around the end of these. I decided last night was time for the experiment, and loaded one of these big splits under a big load of regular / medium splits, on a healthy bed of coals at 9pm. The load lot up okay, but when I engaged the cat, it went to only 550F. I ran it all evening, with air opened as far as I could (maybe 40% open), maintaining stovetop 500-600F. As of 2am, and two attempts switching back to bypass, I never got the cat above 750F.

This morning, i was left with a 20" x 4" square "clinker." I threw three medium splits in this morning, she took off to 550F stovetop, engaged the cat, and the cat probe went right to its normal 1300f. She's now cruising at 450/1350f, stovetop/cat, respectively.

My problem is clear. The big stuff is not dry.

 

[dafattkidd]

So, I'd been sitting aside several very large splits all week, as they turned up in my pile. These are all oak or walnut, and mostly two-hand lifts, as I can't get my hand (glove size = medium) around the end of these. I decided last night was time for the experiment, and loaded one of these big splits under a big load of regular / medium splits, on a healthy bed of coals at 9pm. The load lot up okay, but when I engaged the cat, it went to only 550F. I ran it all evening, with air opened as far as I could (maybe 40% open), maintaining stovetop 500-600F. As of 2am, and two attempts switching back to bypass, I never got the cat above 750F.

This morning, i was left with a 20" x 4" square "clinker." I threw three medium splits in this morning, she took off to 550F stovetop, engaged the cat, and the cat probe went right to its normal 1300f. She's now cruising at 450/1350f, stovetop/cat, respectively.

My problem is clear. The big stuff is not dry.

Good to hear. That's an easy fix. Just throw a tire in there with one of those large wet splits. That'll fix'er.

 

[alforit]

My problem is clear. The big stuff is not dry

Nope

 

[Ashful]

So, I've been experimenting a bit, as I can find time. I have found that full loads of oak are slow to get going, but are amazing once you do. Very much more controllable than my usual load of walnut, which has more of a tendency to off-gas way too quickly, if you let it build too much momentum. I really like burning this oak.

I have found a few tricks that really help, mostly getting the chimney up to temp as quickly as possible in bypass mode, to create enough draft to get the load going well in a reasonable amount of time. I find that cracking the door open for just long enough to get the flue pipe temp up to 500F, then closing the door and using the primary air to throttle flue temp while in bypass, the load gets going pretty nicely. It definitely takes much longer in bypass (20 - 30 minutes) than my usual load of walnut (5 - 15 minutes), but the cat seems to come up to 1200F fairly quickly after engaging, as long as I avoid any splits 6" or larger. Once the cat is engaged, it's a real pleasure to burn the oak, as it's not as reactive as walnut, and definitely gives longer burn times.

I'd say that a better practice would be to load some smaller splits of softwood or maple in below the oak, as a primer course, but I don't have much small stuff up at the house right now (gotta get down to the wood piles this weekend, weather permitting).

Everyone rates burn time differently, but for me, it's really maintaining stove top > 300F. Any time my stove drops below that, the house gets cold. Here's what I've noticed with full loads of oak and walnut:

Stovetop temp at 12 hours:
- Walnut = 150 - 200F
- Oak = 200 - 300F

Stovetop at 20 hours:
- Walnut > 100F
- Oak > 150F

Relight after 20 hours:
- 20 hours after loading Walnut, starting a new fire requires kindling, but I never need a match.
- 20 hours after loading Oak, I do not require kindling to start a new fire. Just stir the coals and drop a few small splits in.

 

[dafattkidd]

So, I've been experimenting a bit, as I can find time. I have found that full loads of oak are slow to get going, but are amazing once you do. Very much more controllable than my usual load of walnut, which has more of a tendency to off-gas way too quickly, if you let it build too much momentum. I really like burning this oak.

I have found a few tricks that really help, mostly getting the chimney up to temp as quickly as possible in bypass mode, to create enough draft to get the load going well in a reasonable amount of time. I find that cracking the door open for just long enough to get the flue pipe temp up to 500F, then closing the door and using the primary air to throttle flue temp while in bypass, the load gets going pretty nicely. It definitely takes much longer in bypass (20 - 30 minutes) than my usual load of walnut (5 - 15 minutes), but the cat seems to come up to 1200F fairly quickly after engaging, as long as I avoid any splits 6" or larger. Once the cat is engaged, it's a real pleasure to burn the oak, as it's not as reactive as walnut, and definitely gives longer burn times.

I'd say that a better practice would be to load some smaller splits of softwood or maple in below the oak, as a primer course, but I don't have much small stuff up at the house right now (gotta get down to the wood piles this weekend, weather permitting).

Everyone rates burn time differently, but for me, it's really maintaining stove top > 300F. Any time my stove drops below that, the house gets cold. Here's what I've noticed with full loads of oak and walnut:

Stovetop temp at 12 hours:
- Walnut = 150 - 200F
- Oak = 200 - 300F

Stovetop at 20 hours:
- Walnut > 100F
- Oak > 150F

Relight after 20 hours:
- 20 hours after loading Walnut, starting a new fire requires kindling, but I never need a match.
- 20 hours after loading Oak, I do not require kindling to start a new fire. Just stir the coals and drop a few small splits in.

Wow. Nice! Those are impressive burn times. What were the outside/inside temps during that 20 hour window? Really good to hear you have both units up and running so effectively.

 

[Ashful]

Follow-up: I moved all of the big stuff from the house back down to the wood lot, and resplit all of it. The amazing thing was that most of it was right around 20%, tested with the General (sold at Lowes) moisture meter on a freshly split face. A few pieces were as low as 17%, and a few were as high as 22%, but most right around 20 - 21%.

Anyone know the species and temperature coefficients for the General meter? Their "Use and Care instructions" contain no such info, but I'm really interested to know if these numbers can be assumed anywhere near accurate. Outside temperature was around 20F (rising from 17F) at the time of measurement.

I moved a bunch of other wood up to the house, and re-split anything over maybe 5", in the process. Since it was all measuring at or around 20%, nothing was set aside. Both stoves seem to be doing pretty well on the last 8 loads, although I did have one stinker this morning, from a knotty piece that must've been retaining some water.

Will post some photos of the move in a moment.

 

[Ashful]

Loading in:



I can fit one cord in main rack, plus 1/4 cord in kindling rack. I'll often stack another 1/4 - 1/2 cord on the flagstone next to the main rack.

 

[alforit]

Nice house

 

[jatoxico]

Follow-up: I moved all of the big stuff from the house back down to the wood lot, and resplit all of it. The amazing thing was that most of it was right around 20%, tested with the General (sold at Lowes) moisture meter on a freshly split face. A few pieces were as low as 17%, and a few were as high as 22%, but most right around 20 - 21%.

Ran into a similar situation myself. All of a sudden I'm into a wet batch of wood. All CSS at the same time but must have been in a bad spot. Had the same idea to split it down. Nice house and tractor. I can see why your running 2 stoves though! Think I might go to one that can burn coal.

 

[weatherguy]

Nice spot for your wood Joful. I have a lot of oak and I let the monster splits season 4 years before I burn them, its amazing how much better they burn with that extra year, 3 years is good for your average size oak splits.

 

[oldspark]

Nice spot for your wood Joful. I have a lot of oak and I let the monster splits season 4 years before I burn them, its amazing how much better they burn with that extra year, 3 years is good for your average size oak splits.

So how much moisture do you lose in the last year of drying, I have 5 year old Oak and can not tell any difference then some 2 year old Oak.

 

[Ashful]

. I can see why your running 2 stoves though!.

Not from that angle, you can't! This is why I'm running two stoves. Wood storage (prior photo) is at left end of house, originally the front of the house, before they put in our street.

 

[jatoxico]

Not from that angle, you can't! This is why I'm running two stoves. Wood storage (prior photo) is at left end of house, originally the front of the house, before they put in our street.

View attachment 120680

Phew! That is a lot of house! Beautiful though. The newer parts well insulated or older additions? Seriously a friend of mine has a direct vent coal stove (Harman?) and 1 spackle bucket a day and its happy. I wouldn't give up the wood, its too nice and I enjoy work but feeding two stoves might take the fun out of it for me.

 

[HotCoals]

Not from that angle, you can't! This is why I'm running two stoves. Wood storage (prior photo) is at left end of house, originally the front of the house, before they put in our street.

View attachment 120680

Is that a garage on the right or is that part of the house also!
Man all that looks huge but very nice!!

 

[oldspark]

I think you have posted that picture before but one word comes to mind, WOW, very nice indeed.

 

[dafattkidd]

Holy crap, Joful your house is awesome. Do you clean that masonry chimney using a boom? That seems terrifying. How many square feet are you heating with the two Firelights?

 

[Ashful]

The newer parts well insulated or older additions?... I wouldn't give up the wood, its too nice and I enjoy work but feeding two stoves might take the fun out of it for me.

The house was built in three phases:

part 1: 1770's
part 2: 1890's
part 3: 1994



The 1770's part is all stone, with plaster applied directly to the inside of the stone walls, so no insulation whatsoever. The 1890's part is framed, and has blown-in polystyrene beads in all bays but one, thanks to some past mouse activity. The 1990's part is 2x6 framing, insulated with fiberglass batts.

The two stoves are installed in the 1770's and 1994 sections (you can see those two chimneys in the photo. There is another chimney in the 1890's section (not visible), which was used for a cook stove, but that stove was pulled out in 1994, and that chimney re-purposed for an oil boiler. Feeding two stoves is becoming a chore, and I'm toying with the idea of only feeding the one in the old house during the work week, and only lighting up the one in the new wing on weekends. Particularly, since the one in the new wing is the one on the short chimney, and causes me much more headaches than the one in the old house. However, I like the money I'm saving by keeping both going, and have trouble letting that go!

Is that a garage on the right or is that part of the house also!

There is an attached garage, which takes up more than a third of the first floor of that new addition. It goes from the right end of the house, almost to the peak of the first gable, as sketched in this image. I am slowly finishing the room above it.

Do you clean that masonry chimney using a boom? That seems terrifying. How many square feet are you heating with the two Firelights?

That chimney IS terrifying, shown on the right in the photo below. My chimney sweep has been climbing roofs and chimneys for more than 35 years, and he says my chimney scares the hell out of him. Trouble is, a 40 foot ladder does not reach the top, so the one time I went up to inspect the crown I was shimmying up the last few steps with my feet on the ladder, and my hands/chest on a vertical brick wall. That was a once in a lifetime move, not to be repeated.

 

[jatoxico]

Really pretty place Joful. Hurry up finishing that room above garage you need more room.

 

[Ashful]

Really pretty place Joful. Hurry up finishing that room above garage you need more room.

You always need more room. I've got a barn full off stuff I apparently need, too.

I think the cycle of life is: expand, expand, expand... until the kids move out and get places of their own. Then you start pushing your stuff off on them. At least that's how it seems to work in my family.

Actually, the room above the garage has a purpose, and that is housing this. Right now, these are stacked in the room with one of our wood stoves, and my wife would so much rather have a couch in there.