One stove down!

[Ashful]

The last three loads thru one of my beloved Firelight 12's have not succeeded in lighting off the cat. Actually, both were a little finicky yesterday, so I was suspect wood, as outside temps were not warm enough to cause draft troubles. However, the old one on the 15' chimney has been lighting off, and the new one on the 27' chimney has failed to light the cat on the last three loads. The house STINKS, probably thanks to some back-puffing, and a nearly stalled draft. I anticipate my Steelcat is either plugged, or has unraveled.

Question... I've got a full load in there now, since 9pm. I gotta shut'r down and go to bed. Go back to bypass, or leave her engaged and deal with the stink? I'm more concerned with CO poisoning, than the smell, although we have numerous networked CO alarms (two very close to this stove) and none have fired.

 

[Ashful]

Answered my own thread. Stove runs away with bypass open... even with primary air fully shut. Got her running in cat mode now, with cat just barely staying in ignition. This is 3 hours into a burn, where it's normally cruising at 1300F+.

 

[Hogwildz]

Man that sucks. How loaded is it?
I myself would prolly be pulling splits out and tossing them out in the yard.
Not going to be that cold tonight.
Don't own a cat so no advice there. I would go with the open bypass though to give it a clear exhaust out rather than chance the cat completely failing.

Well scrap the open bypass. Can you partially open the bypass to let it draft just enough to get a decent draft? And more yet, will the bypass stay in place or fall closed or full open?

 

[BrowningBAR]

Wait, I'm lost. You added chimney height and you are now having problems getting the cat to ignite?

 

[dafattkidd]

Oh man, that sucks, Joful. I'm sorry to hear that. I hope that baby is able to get back up and running. I have to admit when I read the thread title I was expecting it to be BrowningBar telling us he's had some success with insulating the house and is down to burning two stoves.

Maybe now you can justify the purchase of a BK Ashford 30.

 

[Todd]

I know you love the looks of these stoves but it sure seems like you need to look into replacements. Downdraft stoves just seem to finicky if your going to be a 24/7 burner.

 

[Ashful]

Wait, I'm lost. You added chimney height and you are now having problems getting the cat to ignite?

Not at all. Both stoves have been running very well the last few weeks, with very little trouble. This is a new problem that first occurred Sunday night.

In a rush to get out of the house Sunday morning, I loaded both stoves with wood on a good bed of coals less than 45 minutes before departure time. Both took off well, and both cat's were engaged at in short order. Both cat's came up to the 500's or 600, as is typical, where they hang for maybe 15 minutes before rising to their normal cruising temp around 1300 - 1400 F. Five or ten minutes before going out the door, both cat's had finally gone up to cruising temp (1350'ish), and I shut both stoves down in two steps a few minutes apart. Normally this is done in four steps at 5 minute intervals, but all seemed good, and I was in a rush to get out.

I got home 90 minutes later, and my wife told me the stove on the tall chimney had back-puffed, and the cat temp was close to 1800 ten minutes after I left. So, she opened up the air control a bit. When I got home, the stove seemed to be cruising along nicely when I got home, albeit still a little on the hot side (maybe 600 - 650F on stove top, 1550'ish on cat probe).

We were out Sunday evening, but I reloaded on a small coal bed around 9pm with a smaller load, to get the stove heated back up before the next big load around 10pm. The cat would NOT go above 550F, no matter what I tried, but it was a small load so I sort of ignored it. The big load went in at 10pm, and as of 1am, I still could not get the cat to go above 550F. Monday morning, same thing. Monday night, same thing.

I tried forcing it once or twice, taking the stovepipe to 800F and stovetop to 700F, and I can get the cat to momentarily shoot up to 1300F, but it quickly settles back down at 550F and hangs there indefinitely. Late last night after posting was my only marginal success, when I got the cat to cruise for a short time at 700F. This is not normal behavior for either of my stoves.

As to replacing them... perhaps someday. I have been pretty happy with how they've been burning the last few weeks, though. I don't really see a need to replace them just yet. My recent experience shows that most of the trouble I'd been having in the past were wood quality issues, combined with a little bit of my own inexperience.

 

[rideau]

So, did she cook the cat with flame impingement? You've looked at the cat at this point, right? Is the stove OK? No overfire?

 

[oldspark]

so I was suspect wood

Why?

 

[Ashful]

So, did she cook the cat with flame impingement? You've looked at the cat at this point, right? Is the stove OK? No overfire?

I hope to look at the cat tonight. The cat is in the rear wall of the firebox, so you have to wait for a cold stove and shovel it out, in order to access the cat. I still had a coal bed 9" deep when Ieft the house this morning.

Why?

Because both stoves went from running great up until Sunday morning, to giving me a little trouble Sunday night. I was thinking, what besides wood supply or outdoor temps could affect both stoves at the same time? However, the one stove started behaving normally again, and thinking back I suspect my one-time trouble with that stove was how I loaded it that one time. I had wanted to burn my trouble with the one stove was just operator error.

 

[begreen]

That's a bummer. Hope it's just ash plugging the cat.

 

[BrowningBAR]

Oh man, that sucks, Joful. I'm sorry to hear that. I hope that baby is able to get back up and running. I have to admit when I read the thread title I was expecting it to be BrowningBar telling us he's had some success with insulating the house and is down to burning two stoves.

Maybe now you can justify the purchase of a BK Ashford 30.

Actually, I did insulate the attic this fall. I've noticed a nice difference. It has made things a lot easier. I will still need three stoves, though.

 

[Ashful]

I got to clean out the stove and pull the cat last night. It was completely plugged with creosote on the inlet side. I cleaned it, re-installed, built a fire, and she took right off. All is good again, except...

I notice the cat is pretty well deformed, with a hole where there used to be two lines of spot welds down one side. Even after cleaning, I could not see thru the cat cells too well, due to deformation. I've never seen this cat go above 1800F, although we do get well into the 1700's on occasion, so I assume I'm just seeing what several others have complained about with these SteelCat's. It's less than a year old, and while it's working again, I don't see it lasting anywhere near 5 years, seeing it's current condition.

 

[begreen]

That's a relief, I'm glad you got it working again. Did you take any shots of the deformation? Does the steel cat have a warranty?

 

[mellow]

Creosote on the cat, that would leave me to believe it died due to thermal shock, if your wood is sub-par then it would do that, the creosote on it would have built up after it stopped igniting and points to high moisture wood.

 

[rideau]

With a hole, smoke will get through without burning. With partial clogging, those cells won't work. Get a new cat.

 

[Ashful]

That's a relief, I'm glad you got it working again. Did you take any shots of the deformation? Does the steel cat have a warranty?

Yep... got some photos, and they do have a warranty. In fact, Condar seems to be going over the top with the warranty support on the SteelCat's, as they know it's a little experimental, and they want to not end up with unhappy customers as they work the final bugs out of this design. At least, that's the impression I got a year or two ago, when dealing with them.

Creosote on the cat, that would leave me to believe it died due to thermal shock, if your wood is sub-par then it would do that, the creosote on it would have built up after it stopped igniting and points to high moisture wood.

I believe I know what happened. My coal bed was getting to the "absurdly deep" level, with live coals blocking the lower half of the glass on the front doors, which I had not opened in several days. This was the result of just loading one load on the next for a few days, never giving it time to really burn down. My stove runs well this way, when I throw a fresh load right on top of a live coal bed, rather than raking them forward the way the non-cat guys like to do. In any case, I raked them forward, and dropped a very large split down low in the back. This split was very large, very heavy, and probably above an acceptable MC% level, as it was only seasoned one year. That was Sunday night, when I first had trouble with cat light-off. Monday morning, that split was still in there, whole. It had not burned at all. I believe this is how the cat got coated, and once it was, nothing was going to get thru it to drive a light-off.

With a hole, smoke will get through without burning. With partial clogging, those cells won't work. Get a new cat.

Yep. It's lighting off fine, but I just don't feel good looking at it. Since I don't want to be a stove down, I think I'm going to buy a new cat. Once received and intalled, I'll send this one back, and keep the replacement as a spare. It can't hurt to have a spare cat, with two stoves using the same one.

 

[mellow]

This is my first year doing large splits just for overnight burns and I have found that even Maple and Gum are not as good as they should be after a year when split that large, I can only imagine what Oak would be at MC wise.

 

[Todd]

I'd be interested in some pictures as well. I wonder if you would have better luck with ceramic cats than steel? Not to sure about Condar steel cats but I think the larger cells in ceramic cats may keep the flow going better and keep it from clogging as soon.

Is there any kind of screen in front of your cat to keep fly ash to a minimum? I know Woodstock changed their screen with recommendation from the manufacture (Sud Chemie) when they went to steel. Their thinking was fly ash and potassium poisoning would be kept down to a minimum and it would also make a more even flow through the cat.

 

[Ashful]

I'd be interested in some pictures as well. I wonder if you would have better luck with ceramic cats than steel? Not to sure about Condar steel cats but I think the larger cells in ceramic cats may keep the flow going better and keep it from clogging as soon.

Is there any kind of screen in front of your cat to keep fly ash to a minimum? I know Woodstock changed their screen with recommendation from the manufacture (Sud Chemie) when they went to steel. Their thinking was fly ash and potassium poisoning would be kept down to a minimum and it would also make a more even flow through the cat.

This is something that's been discussed a few times, by two members here who have each owned both Firelight 12's and Woodstock stoves. The ash clogging problem seems to be unique to Woodstock, according to them, who both report never having similar trouble with their Firelight 12's. I will pull the cats out of mine after a half year of burning, and find them perfectly clean. There is no screen, but being a downdraft design, you'd really have to work hard to get the ash down into the cat chamber, and then back up vertically into the bottom of the cat. Likewise, this cat had no fly ash on it... it was clogged with hard black glaze creosote, due to my own mistake in loading (see above).

I went with the SteelCat because they're less likely to have issues with wet wood, which will often cause fracture in the ceramic cats. However, I'm also wondering if the ceramic cat's have a built-in flaw, as it does not take much deformation of the thin steel to close off these very small passages.

Pics are on my camera at home. I'll try to post tonight.

 

[oldspark]

I went with the SteelCat because they're less likely to have issues with wet wood

So you will always have trouble with your wood?

 

[Ashful]

So you will always have trouble with your wood?

I hope not, but I knew I would have trouble for the first two years, which is when I was buying these cats.

 

[oldspark]

I hope not, but I knew I would have trouble for the first two years, which is when I was buying these cats.

I thought you had been burning longer then that is why I ask, carry on.

 

[stoveguy2esw]

does the stove have an air feed to the cat? check to ensure its open, if you creosoted the cat it could be lack of air placed directly under the cat which is necessary for proper ignition. if the cat don't get fresh air it plugs with creosote

 

[Ashful]

I thought you had been burning longer then that is why I ask, carry on.

Been burning all my life, but only in this house 2 years, so that's the age of my wood supply.

does the stove have an air feed to the cat? check to ensure its open, if you creosoted the cat it could be lack of air placed directly under the cat which is necessary for proper ignition. if the cat don't get fresh air it plugs with creosote

First thing I checked! Actually, I can only check the exterior inlet to that plenum, but it's clear. I think this was mostly just operator error combined with wood split too big for the amount of seasoning time I had. I've set aside some similarly large splits from this stack, which I'll re-split and measure MC% this weekend. I'm betting it's going to measure high.