Osburn 2400 Woodstove - working questions

[jimmyb7]

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I MADE A MESS OF THIS THREAD WITHOUT BEING IN SOLID POINT FORUM.
SORRY

MOD: this thread is now merged for continuity
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Hey As most of you probably know, I just VERY HAPPILY replaced my VC with an Osburn 2400 Woodstove.

After first fire with just bits of kindling to let it off-gas, adding 2 small pieces and air cut in half, she's already at 500 degrees ! I see no problem when I load this baby up.

QUESTION: SECONDARY COMBUSTION + Thermometer Placement

1) Thermometer. I have a small magnetic type. Not sure the best place to put this one. Ont he VC it was simple, in the back away from flame. But the Osburn 2400 really flames evenly, and the central part next to the Chimney gets the most. I PLACED IT more out front in the left corner. Thinking? it's best to have more of the average projecting heat temp instead of where flame could be falsifying the temp....... THOUGHTS?

2) SECONDARY COMBUSTION.
First Fire:

NO REAL LOAD OF SECONDARY FLAMES UP TO - PLEASE READ
Very small build. Burned right away on Full Air. Got up to 400 fast. Added larger kindling and this burned for 1 hour. Temp dropped to about 300.
During this time there was good flame in the box top and bottom, and you could see the Torch Effect up top with orange flame (not yellow).

Now a small bed of red coal - I then added a small 2" round and small split. Got it firing well and turned off the air. The flame went nearly out, but you could still see the top grab the little flicker and Torch it. But soon needed more air for a bit. It did let me turn off the air when the temp came back up to 400 or so. I then turned Off the Air and let it coast.

The wood DID burn because it turned white and the coal under stayed red, but there was very little to no flame in the bed or up top.
This burned around 400-450 for 1.5 hours. I ranked the coals forward - a good red bed. I added 3 small splits East-West and 2 Medium/Big splits diagonally (18 inches I found too long for N-S)

I could not turn the air off as the fire went out. Opened the air 1/2 and cracked the door - Bang now we are flaming. Closed the door, left the air 1/2 got near 30 minutes. Got temp to stay around 450. Flame was good and could see some Torching up top (but not yellow, and not what I'd call swirling around the top, just flickers.)

Turned off the air. Drastic flame drop. But temp stayed and wood continued to turn white. But no Top flaming.

As it burned over the next 2 hours (to present) the temp would raise to 475 and after it burned down a bit, more flame now dances in the box and when the top catches it you can see the Torch effect noticeable, but not excessive or swirling, and orange (not yellow).

EVENTUALLY -- WHEN I LOOKED in the box, I am now seeing No Flame, then wait a second and a blanket of soft red flame will swirl up from the bottom and hit the pipes and then do the Torch thing . But it’s not a constant flame swirling in the top because only intermittent flame waves are coming up from the wood ((When I had the VC this was called the wood off-gassing, this was the gas to burn, but if it puffed it meant not enough air—- If I open the air , I\ll get a faster burn…...........ahhhhhh)) [/b]

I GOT 4 HOURS SO GREAT (just not much noticeable Secondary Burn)


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***** SECOND LOAD UP -- 30% *****
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So, loading about 30% it kicked in, 450 degree, Full top of stove in Flame, Torching.
BUT 2 Hours later the wood is now a heap of coal, no flame and temp dropped 100 degrees.
This should burned for about 4-4.5 hours

First no flame, now tons and fast burn-out.
I’m confused.

I thought no flame meant no secondary combustion. Though the wood still burned (more like smouldered with high temp) without flaming.

I did nothing different, everything is just as tight—- just I did leave the door open a little more at the start and let the temp get to about 450-475 before closing the Air Off (though I read some people let it go to 800 before closing down and it lasted)

Nervous feeling 8( -- though the COAL is holding at 350 for an hour..... I'm at about 3.5 hour this way. Basically an hour off and 50 degree lower than expected.

OH... ONLY DIFFERENT THING IS: first time wood was 3 small split East-West, then 2 big Diagonally. Second Time same amount of wood but 3 small E-W and 2 big ALSO East-West. Could that make the same amount burn in 2 hours when the first time was 4 hours ?

 

[jimmyb7]

((UPDATE)) I edited my original post and removed my updates to make it simpler and more uniform.
Thanks!

THIS WILL BE MY UPDATE POST - JUST UNDER THE ORIGINAL TOPIC in case anyone wants to keep up (grin)

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11PM (atlantic time) --
Setting up my FIRST all-night load.
2 Big 19-20 inch East-West in the back and 2 thinner East-West in the front.
4 BIG 18 inch long North-South and 1 small to fill On Top.

Full Air, door cracked. 2 Minutes and we got flame.
5 Minutes and we got a LOT of flame on one side and in the middle where there's a path --
***** because the North-South are long, Flame is burning right up past the baffle and back to the chimney. IS THIS OK ?
The FRONT TUBE in the center where the most flame is whipping up the baffle is GLOWING RED -- IS IT OK?
I cut the air back to half - early.

***********Still lots of flame, temp 525 - so closed the air off (even wood is little ashy around the surface)
***********BUT.... now there is NO FLAME at all. Kind of really low smoulder. (Book says not to let it smoulder without flame)
***********I'm at a complete loss...................

OK.... opened air 25% and plenty of flame. Waited few minutes and off again. Flame stayed and a the whole top if torching.
Few minutes later, one main spot of flame where the logs are separated, and that is licking the tubes but not a sheet of flame like before..
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[hoffa]

Nice stove. you will love the long burns when loaded right up. I have found with mine the hottest part of the top is about 6 inches in front of the chimney, reading with laser pointer thermometer. Might want to put your thermometer there. Secondary burn I can't really help with, usualy I load up full from coals, leave door open for about 15 min, till it's up and burning well, then choke it down. Secondary's should fire orangy yellow colour. Not sure this will help. Enjoy your stove.

Osburn 2400

 

[jimmyb7]

Thanks hoffa

 

[dafattkidd]

congrats with the new stove! Im sure it will work out well for you. It looks great. I think you just need to burn all the moisture out of the firebricks. I could be wrong with this, but I do remember burning a few short hot fires and gradually building up to larger fire. I remember the burns getting better as I went along.

I'm surprised you didn't want to load those 18" splits NS. I burned a 21" split NS this morning. 18" is perfect for me. I prefer them at that length.

 

[jimmyb7]

@DA -- probably just nervous getting that close to the window. Probably will AFTER I get this figured out with the secondary burn. I'm really stuck on reading it must be Yellow and must be noticeable swirling around the top in order to be effective secondary combustion. Maybe that was wrong, I just don't know. And my personality is - I'll hang on to that and keep searching til figured out (being compulsive can suck !)

 

[dafattkidd]

Ok got it. don't drive yourself too crazy. Here's a few things to check:

•Make sure the baffle is pushed all the way to the back
•Be sure to always have flames in the firebox
•Cut the draft back in gradual increments
•You should have no or very little smoke coming out if your chimney

If you see no smoke then you're in good shape. If it's smoking open the draft a bit more and give it some air. You're doing fine.

 

[jimmyb7]

Hey. Thats just it -- no smoke, but also times of no flame. And sometimes some flame but no torch effect in the top near tubes.
With the larger would I need to keep the air 1/2 open for about 30 minutes before establishing a good flame - but again after turned off, about 1/2 way into burn the flame was better, then dropped closer to the end (I know, flame will go, but was weak to begin with).

I'm working on it - it's time to load it up.

---I did end up with 3 hours off that before the flame is dead and really solid coal is left at about 350 degree.

 

[jimmyb7]

IS IT NORMAL for the Air Tubes in the top to GLOW RED ?

I just added a 1/2 load of wood on a bed of coals. Full open air wasn't doing much so cracked the door a bit as usual. Lots of good flame then. Gave it about 2 minutes and closed the door.

Good flame in there now, but it's burning strong on one side (no too much on the other) and the flame is hitting the Tube directly and it's orange color.

After a minute the flame died down a bit, and the Tube is normal color now -- BUT IS IT OK for it to cherry up like that ?

Thanks

 

[hoffa]

Yes, they will. They have to get really bright to bend though.

 

[jimmyb7]

Outlined everything in my FIRST POST to clean it up.

Basic Problems:

1) Either no flame in stove so no real secondary combustion (if you must have flame and yellow torching in top?)

2) Second attempt TONS of Flame and what should be a 4 hour burn is coals in 2 Hours !!

 

[burleymike]

About 4 hours ago I had a small bed of coals. I placed about 20LB of 2x4 lumber from a shipping crate on the coals. 10 minuets with the door open about 1" I had a nice fire started. I closed the door and left the air fully open for about 10 minuets. I then cut the air by 50% and 5 minuets later I cut the air another 25%. If I wanted a longer burning fire I would have shut the air down fully 5-10 minuets later. I wanted quick heat so I left the air rod pulled out about 1/2" giving me a nice fire burning on the burn tubes. It looks as if the fire is coming out of them. Stove top 7" in front of the flue collar was 550f.

For some reason some splits burn like you describe. I get it shut down and I barely have any flame at all just some blue flame around the tubes. They tubes will be cherry red and no smoke out the chimney. It burns like this more commonly with a top down fire.

 

[jimmyb7]

@burley- thanks. I had my air full opened for 30 minutes, totally engulfed in flame for a good 10-15 minutes at least.
I closed the air off and now there is nothing. Temp started to drop too. Nothing.
I opened the door a second and opened the air 25%, caught - closed the door, left the air 25% opened.
Now have flame started.
But I can't leave the air opened, I need this to burn all night.
It's really boggling my head right now.
Everyone else said they only leave the air opened 10 minutes too... But for me it's not possible to do that AND have fire in the box when air is then turned off.
8(

****just went to look at it and at 25% air, wood is completely caught. Been like that a few minutes now. I shut the air off again and now I have fire dancing in the bed and a river of Torching at the tubes. Perhaps there is a sweet spot for timing and air open or not..... I mean, it had air for a good 45 minutes and when off would not flame.

*** and a few minutes later, the flame is lower, just a path where the logs are separated the flame is through and is also licking the Tubes there...., the rest no flame, not red.

(Side note--- unlike you, once the air was off and no flame, the tubes also lost the redness so no, nothing was happening.)

 

[jimmyb7]

ANYONE ???

9 big pieces of wood - no air -- 6 hours....crap

 

[oldspark]

Did you have the wood criss crossed in there for the overnight burn?

 

[jimmyb7]

Yup, 3 E-W on bottom and 4 Large on top N-S

 

[oldspark]

Yup, 3 E-W on bottom and 4 Large on top N-S

IMHO that did not help, packing it tighter will make for a longer burn.

 

[hoffa]

Make sure the wood is really going well, if you turn it down too soon it won't handle the loss of air well. I watch for flue temp of around 600-700 then start shutting down. I find if the temp isn't there the draft isn't good enough to start shutting down. Hope this helps.

 

[hoffa]

What's left after 6 hours?

 

[jimmyb7]

Sorry guys, made a mess of my other thread and don't know how to delete it --- so Consolidate everything here in point forum.
Hopefully someone can figure it out with me (grin.)
Replaced the VC stove with this big brute, just trying to get it to work like the rest of the guys in here.

1) Thermometer Placement -- here you find is the best place so it's not just reporting hotspot heat?
2) Loading Near Tubes -- can you stack the wood that it touches and/or goes between the Top Air Tubes?
3) Burning Issues: Always fast start-up with Loads of Flame with Air Full Open, BUT:

A) Even after 30 minutes full open when the air is shut Off, Flame all but dies out completely. It only smolders at most. Instructions say there MUST be flame for it to work right. But if I open the air my burns will be even shorter.

B) A couple times after the air was off and no flame stayed, I hoped the door and the air a bit. Fire came back, I closed the door and waited a few minutes with ope air. Fire stayed - Closed off the Air and Fire Stayed, but.... a LOT of flame stayed in the top, making the Tubes glow (which I know is ok) but within 2 hours my wood load was COAL.

C) Last night: on a coal bed I loaded 3 small splits East-West, and 4 BIG pieces North-South.
*Full Air, tons of flame. Let it run for 30 minutes, Temp to about 450.
*Shut it off. DIED. Wood was clearly charred and there was red coal, but no flame.
*Opened the door and the air a bit, Poof. Closed the door. Waited 5 minutes and closed the air.
*Tons of top flame torching.
*2 Hours later that massive load was coal in wood shape. AND the flame was out. I opened the air a small amount and got a little flame and left it that way. IT gave the occasional Torching around one Tube.
*Total -it burned to completely coal (holding a little shape) in 5 hours. The heat was noticeably less which I think is what woke me. Of course it was a fast reload and fire, but that's not the point, right?

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D) Trying an all day burn now. Solid bed of coal, 4 small splits North-South this time. 2 Big ones stack in the back on top East-West and 2 little smaller East-West in front. (wasn't sure how much it could touch the Tubes)
*Started immediately with air full.
*Waited 10 minutes engulfed in flame. Cut back 1/2. Waited 5 minutes still good flame and top is fully Torching. Cut back to 25%. I'll wait for a few more minutes then try to turn it off.
*Ok, now it is still fully fired, Torching the whole top. Wood is getting ashy around the surface and the underneath wood is starting the crack up and get red after 10 minutes longer with 25% air.
*Shutting off Air. Stove top is 575.

*1 Hour in -- wood is still burning with air off. Top is fully in flame with tube torching.
The wood underneath is already starting to go to coal, the wood on top is ashing outside, cracking up and blackening where it burns.
Flue temp about 18 inches up is 300 degrees.
There is now visible gap between the wood and Tubes.

*1.5 hours in --
Wood is all blackened now, ash coated, shrunken to about 1/2 it's volume
Stovepipe Temp is down to 250 from 300 -- 18 inches from stove top
Stove Top is 500
Firebox top still has some dancing swirling flame at the tubes, but only looks like it touches down on the wood a little (sounds like normal gassing)

 

[oldspark]

Has anyone asked you about your wood yet?

 

[jimmyb7]

Thanks -- I made a mess of this thread in my nervous state and so started a clean point form one... sorry guys. Just so tired of stove probs.....

After 6 hours it was red coal and white ash.

Pack tighter? I was told to leave air between everything. And not sure if I could touch or go between the top Tubes. (I mention this in the newer post.... again, made a mess of this.... it's a long read here, haha)

 

[jimmyb7]

Yes. It's birch, maple, oak. Bought split. Left outside to air out/age til mid summer, the stacked inside the shed til it was needed when the snow started flying.
Yes, there is a little higher moisture level in it from what I can see this year.

 

[oldspark]

Yes. It's birch, maple, oak. Bought split. Left outside to air out/age til mid summer, the stacked inside the shed til it was needed when the snow started flying.
Yes, there is a little higher moisture level in it from what I can see this year.

That aint good, you will have to back the air down in steps or are you doing that.

 

[Huntindog1]

Jimmy,

Is your wood Dry 20% preferably less than 20%?
You load full loads not partial loads, Stove heats up better with full Loads (This is important)
Its all about the heat newbies alway just focus on the flames, flames are important as you dont want no flames but its all about building the heat.
Door cracked open longer than needed to get wood started burning is counter production as your flushing the heat up the flue.
Try getting your stove top hotter before your start shutting air down , then only shut down air in like 1/4 increments at a time.
If you leave room up front or to one side to load the last row with small kindling (1" size) on hot coals you will get a hot fast burn to build heat fast so as not to burn up all your big stuff for the longer burn time you want.
The good pile of kindling is small and will let you shut the air down quicker in increments of 1/4 as the small stuff will keep burning with the lower air setting , (as you want the lower air setting to build heat better as less cool air coming into stove)
Big pieces especially if a little moist wont burn if you try shutting air down but kindling will compensate for this.
If your wood is a little too moist like 20, 21, 22% then let the heat build a little hotter before shutting air down.
Depending on your flue set up and flue draw you may not be able to shut the air down all the way. Especially dont shut it down all in one big step.
Be a judge of how good your coal bed is and how hot is the stove at reload and what kind of wood are you putting in the stove as they all are factors. Ask your self is this load of wood a dry as the last load? Is this wood good oak or some crappy type wood.
Take a hatchet and split your self some good dry oak kindling down to like 1" size your will notice a big difference starting the stove on hot coals if you have that last row of oak kindling to heat the stove up hot and fast.
Again its all about building the heat up in the stove.
Sounds like your wood is a little too much moisture or it would take off better. Try getting a moisture meter lowes has them $30.
My preference is that my flue be about 400 and stove top getting to about 550 then I start easing down the air control 25% wait 5-10 minutes then ease it down again to half way but I have done it faster when things get goeing quicker based on my experience with the stove after using it for a long time.