Overnight burn?

PipNH Posted By PipNH, Nov 2, 2016 at 8:41 AM

  1. PipNH

    PipNH
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    Oct 31, 2016
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    I'm not having much success with the overnight burn. I'll load up before bed but when I get up in the morning the stove is cold and if I have any coals they're small and useless. I'm running a Lopi Patriot with a 1.6 cf wood box. The advertised burn time is up to 8 hours but hell if I can get it to last more than 3-4.

    I'm also wondering if there's really a point to burning overnight. It seems pretty wasteful since you're burning so low, I wonder if it wouldn't be better just do your last reload in the early evening and not worry about an overnight burn. I just feel like I'm wasting wood since the stove is cold in the morning anyway.

    FYI, when I DO attempt an overnight burn I go to bed with the house around 70 and get up with it around 60, when I DON'T try the overnight burn, I go to bed around 70 and get up around 55, granted our lowest outside temperature so far was 21 degrees, so that inside morning temperature might start to drop as winter sets in.
     
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  2. mellow

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    That is a small firebox for a tube stove to be expecting heat coming from it 8 hours later, I think they count a single hot ember in those listed burn times. Not much we can say to help you extend that burn time to overnight other than switching out to a different stove.
     
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  3. Huntindog1

    Huntindog1
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    Hard to get an all night heat cycle out of a 1.6 cu ft stove.

    Best you can do is to rake your coals forward so as to put a large spit in the back of stove sitting on no coals.
    With it sitting on the bottom of the stove You should be able to stack another large split on top of it.
    Then the only wood on coals is the wood up in the front of the stove as you raked the hot coals forward.
    I am talking a East west load here. You also have to make sure you burn down your coals so your small stove
    isnt over loaded with too many coals as it takes up room. Make sure your using good dry season wood as
    if your not you will burn up alot of your over night load just trying to get the heat up to operating levels for
    the secondary burn up in the top of the stove. I would suggest up on top of the main larger wood load to
    put some small dry kindling and add a good fire starter like a super cedar. This gets your stove temps up
    fast and lets you quickly get your stove input air shut back down fast and ready for a long burn time.
    Key to all of this as mention is rake coals forward and load good dry wood add in small kindling on top
    with a good fire starter and get temps up fast in stove and wood will light off fast and you will see
    quick secondaries firing up in top of the stove then shut down the input air in increments as to not kill
    the fire. As you learn the feel of the stove you will get things shut down quickly if your using good dry wood
    20% moisture or less, I like 18% or less. This will help get longer burn times.

    Good Luck

    Check these pics out:

    https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/rake-coals-forward-and-stove-start-up-pictures.80659/
     
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  4. Simonkenton

    Simonkenton
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    These companies are bad about exaggerating what their stoves will do. That is a real small stove.
    You just need to get a bigger stove.
     
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  5. St. Coemgen

    St. Coemgen
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    I do not do an overnight burn. Last logs go in no later than 8 PM most days and will burn out before midnight.

    And I do not have a temperature drop off that large, even with an equally low outside temperature.

    But I also installed new double pane windows and insulated the heck out the rest of house wherever I could. It really does pay off to add insulation options wherever, and if, you can.

    That is, you already paid to generate that heat, so it makes sense to also pay a bit to trap as much of that heat in, and to hold it as long as you can to avoid having to pay to generate more heat.
     
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  6. begreen

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    There is no official or legal definition of burn time so some marketing has a field day with these numbers. With the right wood you probably can have a fire in a 1.6 cu ft box that will still have some hot coals the next morning during milder weather. That is what some will call the burn time. What you want is rarely reported - the period of meaningful heat, which for a 1.6 cu ft stove is more in the 4-5hr range.
     
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  7. begreen

    begreen
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    I was just looking at the surprisingly informative Century S244 manual when I came across this section on burn times:
    Screen Shot 2016-11-02 at 10.16.15 AM.png
     
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  8. edge-of-the-woods

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    I was just saying this to someone else.

    "Burn time" is a subjective term. I have a Regency CI2600, and the "burn time" that they advertise basically means that there are some live embers left under a crapload of ash. It's like you can just throw on some logs or kindling, and WOOSH! More fire.
     
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  9. Supersurvey

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    I can get about 5 hours of heat from my 1.4 cf Hampton Hi200 best case at which time my blower automaticly shuts off. Hot coals in the morning but no heat. Have to clean ashes every day to have room for wood.
     
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  10. jatoxico

    jatoxico
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    A wise long time Hearther told me to split big to get longer burn times. Wood needs to be dried well though which can take some time for chunkier splits. Won't get you overnight but it helps.
     
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  11. DBoon

    DBoon
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    I have a 1.6 cubic foot Lopi Answer - not sure what the Patriot is, but the Answer has the same size firebox. I can get an overnight burn with a good reload with a 200-250 degree stove top with coals after about 10 hours. But you need to do the following:

    1. Find the most squared off splits you can - you need to get the most volume of wood in the stove that you can. I split mine square to get the most wood in with little wasted space.
    2. Make sure your splits are dried well - 2 years and <20% moisture content. You need to get the stove closed down and achieving a clean burn early and good, dry wood allows this.
    3. Use good hardwoods. Sugar maple, ash, hickory, or oak. Cherry won't do it.
    4. Rake the coals forward. Lay the biggest squared off split in the back. Put another on top of it. You should have filled almost half the firebox.
    5. Put the next biggest squared off split in front. Leave about 1" between the stack in back and this.
    6. Toss a few skinny, splits in between these splits. This will get a good fire going early, and allow you to be aggressive about closing the primary air off early and still achieving a good clean burn on the big splits.
    7. Put the last squared off split in front on top. It should nearly reach the top of the firebox.
    8. Monitor the fire and close it down a little more aggressively than you otherwise might - you want it to burn clean, but low and slow. If it takes off too quickly, then it will burn down quicker.
     
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  12. PipNH

    PipNH
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    Oct 31, 2016
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    Thanks so much for all the information. We're renting our condo so replacing the stove isn't an option.

    DBoon, thanks for the tips, I'll try them and report back
     
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  13. yooper08

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    SBI's latest manuals are really good IMO, both for general practices (anyone could use) and their stoves in particular.
     
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  14. blacktail

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    My insert is the same size. Getting the advertised burn time is unlikely. The more wood you can stuff in it, the more burn time you'll get. I can fit more wood in loading front to back, so I cut at least some of my wood 13" long for when I want the longest burns.
     
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  15. CountryBoy19

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    +1, larger splits of higher BTU (more dense) wood with the coal bed completely raked forward will get you longer burn times because the heat that pyrolizes the volatile compound has a hard time reaching the inside of a larger split that is at the far bottom, back of the stove. Doing this I am able to successfully accomplish a burn that is ~4 hrs full inferno, 6+ of fairly good flames, 8+ until just coals are left, and 12-13 hrs until coal bed is diminished to the point that it's not producing significant heat.... that's all in a non-cat ZC fireplace.
     
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  16. CincyBurner

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    . . . and for overnight burns with a nice bed of coals in the morning, put in a nice chunk of Osage when you load up in the evening.
     
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  17. OhioBurner©

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    I extended the burn time by a few hours in my Jotul by loading with compressed wood bricks. I know you probably won't have Eco or Envir bricks up there that I use but maybe something similar. Of course if you do try them to be careful and only load a few at first until you learn how to burn them.
     
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  18. ctswf

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    Interesting OhioBurner, i had "hot bricks" last year and i found they did not last as long as wood no matter what i did... Different brand than you mentioned though
     
  19. OhioBurner©

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    Yeah not familiar with hot bricks. But Ecobricks extended my burn from around 8-9hrs max to about 12 iirc. With my new hybrid stove they extended the max burn from 16-24 hrs out to 40-48 hours. I think for about the same volume of firewood the Ecobricks were like 2-3x more btu when you consider they are half the size, no bark, and lower moisture content. The trick is controlling the burn, which tube stoves struggle with a bit more.

    As for why the overnight burn, well if you're asking/contemplating that then it might not matter. maybe you don't mind the huge temperature swing? For me there is no question. Having to relight a stove is much more of a PITA than simply reloading. And keeping the house at more constant temperature is more comfortable. If your house is loosing 10º with an overnight burn, or 15º if you let it go out by morning, you either need to find the window(s) you left open ;lol, insulate/air seal, or get a much bigger stove. My house is poorly insulated and drafty as heck and 10-15 degrees is a larger swing than I've ever seen unless the stove was off all day. And as far as wasteful, just depends on the situation. I think it's much lest wasteful to keep it more constant, and keep the stove at a more efficient burn rate. The hotter the stove, like what you'd need to warm the place back up, will be wasting a lot more heat up the flue. Have you considered a bigger stove?
     
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  20. Huntindog1

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    Another aspect of this is how well is your house insulated.
    Like was said the definition of the burn cycle is when you have enough coals
    to start another load of wood lets say at 8 hours then you got an 8 hour burn.
    what happens is if you have a drafty house not insulated well as soon as your down to
    coals the heat escapes and the house is quickly cold. So you have an issue.
    I used to have a 2.0 cubic foot stove. It was good , I could sometimes get a 10 hour burn cycle
    having good coals to start a fire after 20 hours. It was hard to do but I learned how to do it
    after about 6 months of using the stove. You have to have good quality wood thats seasoned
    and dry. People always forget that part. I used to try and use not so dry wood, usable but not
    as dry as needed. I would sit there for the longest time with the door cracked trying to get
    the stove heated to the point the secondaries would lite off up in the top of the stove which means
    the stove is now burning smoke gases. But with the not so good wood by the time I got to that point
    I had burned alot of my main wood load just getting the heat up inside the stove as I had the door cracked.
    Ya see when the wood is good and dry and you use good dry kindling and a good fire starter like super cedars
    and the main wood load is dry then the stove starts up quickly with the door shut. As whne the door is shut your
    not flushing good valuable heat up the flue. Important point to rememeber the wood can be burning but is the stove
    heating up quickly or do you have the door open and flushing heat up the flue plus if you do have the door shut on the
    stove but your having to keep the input air wide open for a overly long time your also flushing more heat up the flue.
    you ask why are you havinng to keep the input air open too long , well thats because your wood isnt good and dry
    and you didnnt use kindling and a firestarter for fast heat up of the stove. As if you have rally good quality
    kindling pluus a good firestarter you most likely could start that stove with the input air half way open instead of fully open.
    Plus if your wood is good and seasoned and dry your gonna get more BTU's of heat out of that little stove.

    If your gonna keep the little stove I would try and insulate the house and make it more air tight as possible.
    After a 3 month learning curve you should be able to get 8 hour burn cycles with enough coals left
    after 8 hours to restart another load. Remember 50% of your heat is in the coal stage as brotherbart says.
    your only going to get 8 hour burn cycles if you have really good hard woods seasoned to 20% or less
    moisture so go get you a moisture meter at lowes home stores for around $30. You will also need to sort your
    wood pile a little and use big splits in the back and medium splits towards the front as noted in my earlier post above.
    Its a pain but having a good source a dry kindling and fire starters will help also.

    By using the smaller stove your gonna use less wood , as I noticed I wasted more wood with a bigger stove.
    Hopefully you can insulate a little more and make the house more air tight.

    Edit: went back and saw you live in more northern climate not sure the size of your house.
    That might dictate upgrading to a bigger stove.
     
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  21. mellow

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    Just so everyone can be on the same page. OP has to deal with what he has.
     
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  22. theora55

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    I have a smaller stove, seldom get 8 hours. When I really want to try, I use the thickest pieces of wood in the woodbin, close the vent most the way, and I get the best results

    I have a smaller stove than yours, seldom get 8 hours. When I really want to try, I use the thickest pieces of wood in the woodbin, close the vent most the way, and I get the best results when there's a good bed of ash. (sometimes it pays to procrastinate). If I try for an overnight burn, it's when I really want to wake up to a warmer house.
     
  23. sldl2004

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    I have a Hearthstone Heritage model that has a 2.3 cu ft firebox capacity and can get 8 hrs with no problem. The soapstone maintains heat all night long and I have no problem with coals after 8 hrs. You need a bigger stove.
     
  24. OhioBurner©

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    I missed that post. yeah that pretty much limits your options down to almost nothing. If this is a rented condo I assume there has to be a furnace of some sort also. If your house looses 15 degrees overnight and you can't replace the stove or add insulation then you gotta pony up and pay for the furnace as primary, leave it set on 65 or however low you want to maintain, and use the stove as supplemental heat just to offset some of the furnace usage. About the only thing you can do with the stove is burn denser higher btu wood that is well seasoned, and perhaps add on a flue damper if possible to help slow the burn if you have problems with the stove not being able to go low enough (not sure if you have that problem, and realize you need to maintain a clean burn, but if you have an overdraft situation shortening your burn time this may help.
     
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  25. Huntindog1

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    One more thing I had a 2.12 cuft stove I could get 8-10 hours out of it once I learned how to use it.
    I now have a 3.2 cuft stove. I know this adds nothing to the posting. But anyways too me a while
    to learn how to burn these new type secondary air stoves.
     
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