OWB vs IWB for new contruction

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Medic21

Minister of Fire
Feb 26, 2017
1,142
Northern Indiana
I hope the OP is still interested in a stove after this thread.


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I hope he has enough factual information to make the best decision for himself.

I looked real hard at a couple different indoor boiler units also. I do not like the idea of a solid fuel pressurized tank in my basement so I ruled that out quickly. There are pros and cons to both.
 

Bad LP

Minister of Fire
Nov 28, 2014
1,846
Northern Maine
Lot of paranoia going on.
 

Medic21

Minister of Fire
Feb 26, 2017
1,142
Northern Indiana
Lot of paranoia going on.

not really. He asked about the two. When I tried to give him information on the OWB I was immediately told how bad they were and how dirty they are. The facts and realities are the newer, within the last 4-5 years, the OWB have become very clean and efficient with the gasification units. There are people that want to lump them into the old conventional chew chew trains and they are not that anymore.
 
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E Yoder

Minister of Fire
Jan 27, 2017
598
Floyd, VA
Earlier in this thread someone asked what the cycling gasser OWB's do when coming off an idle when the gasification has been completely stopped for a while.
If the coal bed is still lit (which it typically is unless it's been off all day), the draft opens, fan runs, and a red glow spreads through the coal bed. Very little if any smoke because the air is introduced down low, basically only feeding the coals which don't smoke anyway. As the damper gradually opens to 100% the coal bed comes to life, and the gasses fill the reburn brick below the nozzle, creating that familiar torch flame.
It works pretty reliably. I've installed dozens of many in very dense neighborhoods, with zero complaints. I'm not trying to sell here, just saying the world of OWB's has forever changed and there's no reason to smoke out your neighbor.
As was mentioned there are thousands of the old conventional units out there. Often operated poorly.
 

maple1

Minister of Fire
Sep 15, 2011
10,878
Nova Scotia
I hope he has enough factual information to make the best decision for himself.

I looked real hard at a couple different indoor boiler units also. I do not like the idea of a solid fuel pressurized tank in my basement so I ruled that out quickly. There are pros and cons to both.

That's not really an overwhelming reason to rule out an IWB. There are millions of pressurized hydronic heating systems in use all over the continent, and millions of solid fuel fired wood stoves. I don't think I have ever heard or read about something going boom. The odd chimney fire, yes, but the risk of that goes to something like minimal to zero with a clean burner.
 

3fordasho

Minister of Fire
Jul 20, 2007
1,006
South Central Minnesota
That's not really an overwhelming reason to rule out an IWB. There are millions of pressurized hydronic heating systems in use all over the continent, and millions of solid fuel fired wood stoves. I don't think I have ever heard or read about something going boom. The odd chimney fire, yes, but the risk of that goes to something like minimal to zero with a clean burner.

I'm much more concerned about a natural gas or propane line coming into the house. Zero concern about 1000 gallons of water at 14.7 psi. My storage is in a outbuilding, but if I could have fit it in the basement of the house I want to heat - that is a better place for it.
 

peakbagger

Minister of Fire
Jul 11, 2008
6,831
Northern NH
Pressurized water tanks don't go boom. Water is incompressible so it doesn't build up much stored energy under pressure. If a tank fails it usually just springs a leak until the pressure equalizes. That's why water is typically used for hydro testing tanks and piping compared to compressed air or steam. Both air and steam are compressible so both can build up quite bit of energy and can fail catastrophically under pressure. Insurance covers water damage from commercial tanks used for heat storage, it may not for tanks that were altered by unqualified people. This is an issue with using altered old propane tanks for water storage unless the alterations are done by a code shop. The reality is the insurance company wants to recover what they paid to the homeowner for damage claims. They can go after a manufacturer of a tank designed for storage but they have a lot more difficult time going after an altered tank unless someone is stupid enough to commercially make alterations and not follow code. I think most folks rationalize that the propane tank is overdesigned for service as a low pressure water storage tank and just decide to take the risk of a wet floor.

I am far more concerned when I see old compressed air tanks taken out of service due to age and condition that seem to end up in private garages and residences. A 60 gallon air tank failure can take out a wall and kill someone if it fails.

My "boiler" actually a hydronic heating device like 99% of the biomass "boilers" on the market, has redundant safeties including a lesser used safety these days that dumps into the firebox.
 

Medic21

Minister of Fire
Feb 26, 2017
1,142
Northern Indiana
I'm much more concerned about a natural gas or propane line coming into the house. Zero concern about 1000 gallons of water at 14.7 psi. My storage is in a outbuilding, but if I could have fit it in the basement of the house I want to heat - that is a better place for it.

I agree it’s a rarity and their are safety systems. An on demand modulating propane boiler is much safer.
 

Bad LP

Minister of Fire
Nov 28, 2014
1,846
Northern Maine
not really. He asked about the two. When I tried to give him information on the OWB I was immediately told how bad they were and how dirty they are. The facts and realities are the newer, within the last 4-5 years, the OWB have become very clean and efficient with the gasification units. There are people that want to lump them into the old conventional chew chew trains and they are not that anymore.
My comment was in regard to having pressurized storage in the building. Post #51
 

salecker

Minister of Fire
Aug 22, 2010
1,648
Northern Canada

Karl_northwind

Minister of Fire
Feb 13, 2012
529
Central Wi.
Efficiency is a matter of personal preference. as in it's a trade off. my OWB gasifier is many feet away from anything expensive or irreplaceable. I will bet your indoor burner isn't. I'll happily burn a little more wood to keep it away from my valuables.
Smoke is not a personal preferrance where it will affect others.
The creosote that forms in the upper chamber isn't any worse than what I have seen in the uppers of many indoor gasifiers burned with storage. most OWB gasifiers are built from 409 stainless which doesn't rot out like the older upper chambers of mild steel.
the reason that your indoor boiler can be mild steel is that it dries out every cycle.

I'm going to guess that you don't actually have any first hand experience with any of the modern OWB gasifiers.
 

Case1030

Feeling the Heat
Dec 12, 2017
378
Manitoba
I have no problem going outside at -40C to go to stoke the fire.It needs to be filled after 3 hour burn,so not a big deal to go outside.All the mess and danger is seperat from my home which is worth the walk.

Every 3 hours in -40c!? If I owned a boiler I'd aim for 12 hour burns in that weather with a proper setup. Going outside every 3 hours wouldn't even be worth having a boiler.
 

maple1

Minister of Fire
Sep 15, 2011
10,878
Nova Scotia
Every 3 hours in -40c!? If I owned a boiler I'd aim for 12 hour burns in that weather with a proper setup. Going outside every 3 hours wouldn't even be worth having a boiler.

Long burns like 12 hours aren't something to strive for with a boiler, and wouldn't likely be considered up and up 'proper'. Longer burns come from smoldering. Better to load full a couple times over 3-4 (4-6?) hours with a wide open burn and catching the heat for later use. Then not tending it at all until 18 hours later.
 

Case1030

Feeling the Heat
Dec 12, 2017
378
Manitoba
Long burns like 12 hours aren't something to strive for with a boiler, and wouldn't likely be considered up and up 'proper'. Longer burns come from smoldering. Better to load full a couple times over 3-4 (4-6?) hours with a wide open burn and catching the heat for later use. Then not tending it at all until 18 hours later.

What I meant by burns is that I wouldn't want to "have" to load it every 3 hours outside or indoors. Even in extream weather I wouldn't want a system that needs over 2-3 charges (using storage) per day... kinda defeats the purpose of even owning a boiler if that can't be accomplished.
 

maple1

Minister of Fire
Sep 15, 2011
10,878
Nova Scotia
What I meant by burns is that I wouldn't want to "have" to load it every 3 hours outside or indoors. Even in extream weather I wouldn't want a system that needs over 2-3 charges (using storage) per day... kinda defeats the purpose of even owning a boiler if that can't be accomplished.

No, I wouldnt either. Thinking also that's not quite what salecker was saying either.
 

Case1030

Feeling the Heat
Dec 12, 2017
378
Manitoba
No, I wouldnt either. Thinking also that's not quite what salecker was saying either.

Yeah... Maybe he meant 3 hours between x amount of charges.
 

salecker

Minister of Fire
Aug 22, 2010
1,648
Northern Canada
What I meant by burns is that I wouldn't want to "have" to load it every 3 hours outside or indoors. Even in extream weather I wouldn't want a system that needs over 2-3 charges (using storage) per day... kinda defeats the purpose of even owning a boiler if that can't be accomplished.

I can see a 3hr burn to heat the storage and repeating it a couple times a day. I’m assuming that’s what he meant.
Exactly.At present temps i start a fire at 6:30 and load once and its done at 11:30, nothing to do till tonight at 6:30 ish. No smoke ,no ash,no bugs,no flames,no carbon monoxide in my home...priceless
 

CaperM

Member
Dec 31, 2013
28
Nova Scotia
I retired my 22 year gasfierJetstream boiler 2 years ago and running a sotve in basement. The Jetstream was great but the refactory had to be replaced.Icame across a vedolux 37 gasfier on kijji 3 weeks ago,9 year old and never used.I was skeptical at first but it was never used.It is sitting in my garage ready to go in after the new year.I have 720 gallons for storage and will be glad to get back to batch burns.
 

hobbyheater

Minister of Fire
Nov 14, 2011
1,198
I retired my 22 year gasfierJetstream boiler 2 years ago and running a sotve in basement. The Jetstream was great but the refactory had to be replaced.Icame across a vedolux 37 gasfier on kijji 3 weeks ago,9 year old and never used.I was skeptical at first but it was never used.It is sitting in my garage ready to go in after the new year.I have 720 gallons for storage and will be glad to get back to batch burns.

If you haven't got rid of your Jetstream yet and if it has the belt driven blower, I would very much be interested in the blower. I installed a new Jetstream in 2014 and I am always on the outlook for parts. See my install thread below.

 

Mike Fromme

Burning Hunk
Apr 18, 2014
221
Maine
If you haven't got rid of your Jetstream yet and if it has the belt driven blower, I would very much be interested in the blower. I installed a new Jetstream in 2014 and I am always on the outlook for parts. See my install thread below.

Still trying to corner the market on jetstreams... I guess somethings never change ;)
 

CaperM

Member
Dec 31, 2013
28
Nova Scotia
Still trying to corner the market on jetstreams... I guess somethings never change ;)
[/QUOTE
If you haven't got rid of your Jetstream yet and if it has the belt driven blower, I would very much be interested in the blower. I installed a new Jetstream in 2014 and I am always on the outlook for parts. See my install thread below.

Hi,I checked around here but I could not find it.If it turns up I will let you know
 
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