Pacific Energy and 2020

[mar13]

I have a T5 Classic being installed at the very moment I'm typing this. (Very exciting, but also a bit nerve-wracking too, hoping all goes smoothly.)

Interestingly, it says it's a Series D (3.4g/hr), yet the manufacturer date is listed as 01/2019. There'd been a post from somebody in Nova Scotia (?) who has an EPA2020 version (Series LE) purchased last fall. I wonder if they were manufacturing both models simultaneously for a while and everything heading off towards Montreal was made EPA2020?

 

[ToastyInDE]

Any update on these LE's? Has PE run out of the Series D and only shipping the LE? How about performance? Anyone able to provide a review other than the person in this thread who may have had excessive draft? @begreen have you been able to see them in person?

I'm thinking about getting a Super for a brand new install in my house and called a local retailer. They didn't know whether the new 2020 compliant models were shipping either. Like others have said, I'm interested in taking the plunge on new Super with EBT2, although it seems like you can't go wrong with the Series D.

 

[mar13]

Any update on these LE's? Has PE run out of the Series D and only shipping the LE? How about performance? Anyone able to provide a review other than the person in this thread who may have had excessive draft? @begreen have you been able to see them in person?

I'm thinking about getting a Super for a brand new install in my house and called a local retailer. They didn't know whether the new 2020 compliant models were shipping either. Like others have said, I'm interested in taking the plunge on new Super with EBT2, although it seems like you can't go wrong with the Series D.

Id imagine you could insist to your dealer that you want an LE version, otherwise you won't purchase. The dealer would then be motivated find a way to ensure you an LE.

Here's what a dealer in Ontario emailed me this spring. Reading his email and getting feed back from ChimneySweepOnline made me confident of both the D and the LE of the Super Series.

"We have been running a Super 27 LE here since last fall. On our chimney it runs very similar to the previous versions. The Summit with the EBT2 has been more sensitive to chimney draft. I had suspected that theSuper 27 with the EBT2 might have difficulty with our tall chimney, but that hasn't been a problem. It wasn't quite a blind test, because we also changed from birch firewood to black ash firewood at the same time.

I suspect there might be some chimney set ups where it doesn't run as nice as the old one, but we have a couple dozen LE units out in the field now and we aren't having complaints. Since we aren't experiencing long term reliability issues with the EBT2 Summits that have been out for about a decade, I don't expect Super 27 EBT2 problems.

As for emissions, the old unit was designed in 1986 and beat the thirty two years of emission standard tightening without any revisions.The current revisions were really minor. "

 

[Highbeam]

Id imagine you could insist to your dealer that you want an LE version, otherwise you won't purchase. The dealer would then be motivated find a way to ensure you an LE.

Here's what a dealer in Ontario emailed me this spring. Reading his email and getting feed back from ChimneySweepOnline made me confident of both the D and the LE of the Super Series.

"We have been running a Super 27 LE here since last fall. On our chimney it runs very similar to the previous versions. The Summit with the EBT2 has been more sensitive to chimney draft. I had suspected that theSuper 27 with the EBT2 might have difficulty with our tall chimney, but that hasn't been a problem. It wasn't quite a blind test, because we also changed from birch firewood to black ash firewood at the same time.

I suspect there might be some chimney set ups where it doesn't run as nice as the old one, but we have a couple dozen LE units out in the field now and we aren't having complaints. Since we aren't experiencing long term reliability issues with the EBT2 Summits that have been out for about a decade, I don't expect Super 27 EBT2 problems.

As for emissions, the old unit was designed in 1986 and beat the thirty two years of emission standard tightening without any revisions.The current revisions were really minor. "

The wife caught me sizing up our BK hearth for a PE T5. Just wanted to know if it would fit. Have to buy another cat soon for the BK.

 

[mar13]

The wife caught me sizing up our BK hearth for a PE T5. Just wanted to know if it would fit. Have to buy another cat soon for the BK.

One advantage that I found of PE stoves with respect to hearth sizing is that their manual measures the side distance for minimum hearth width from the edges of the windows. Most other stove companies use the edge of the stove body.

My hearth is a quarter circle, so it had the correct depth at the center for several stove models, but the hearth gets shorter relative to the stove's face as you follow the hearth's edges as they arc away from the center. Saving a few inches on the minimum width made me more confident of meeting requirements before ordering the stove site unseen. It happened that my worry was for nothing as the stove itself isn't a true rectangle (which I knew, but not how much) so it could be set further back in the corner than anticipated, giving me enough front clearance to probably even pass Canadian requirements.

 

[ToastyInDE]

Id imagine you could insist to your dealer that you want an LE version, otherwise you won't purchase. The dealer would then be motivated find a way to ensure you an LE.

Here's what a dealer in Ontario emailed me this spring. Reading his email and getting feed back from ChimneySweepOnline made me confident of both the D and the LE of the Super Series.

"We have been running a Super 27 LE here since last fall. On our chimney it runs very similar to the previous versions. The Summit with the EBT2 has been more sensitive to chimney draft. I had suspected that theSuper 27 with the EBT2 might have difficulty with our tall chimney, but that hasn't been a problem. It wasn't quite a blind test, because we also changed from birch firewood to black ash firewood at the same time.

I suspect there might be some chimney set ups where it doesn't run as nice as the old one, but we have a couple dozen LE units out in the field now and we aren't having complaints. Since we aren't experiencing long term reliability issues with the EBT2 Summits that have been out for about a decade, I don't expect Super 27 EBT2 problems.

As for emissions, the old unit was designed in 1986 and beat the thirty two years of emission standard tightening without any revisions.The current revisions were really minor. "

Thanks mar. I called another retailer in Philadelphia yesterday and they confirmed that all Super orders will be the 2020 compliant LE version. FWIW, the quoted price was $2,150 for the standard black w/legs.

 

[Newburnerwisconsin]

The wife caught me sizing up our BK hearth for a PE T5. Just wanted to know if it would fit. Have to buy another cat soon for the BK.

So you are thinking about going with a Pacific Energy stove now?

 

[Highbeam]

So you are thinking about going with a Pacific Energy stove now?

It’s a great stove but no, just seeing if it would fit.

 

[amateur]

What about the changes from the series D would result in different clearance requirements?

 

[mar13]

I think the clearances did not change.

 

[Woody Stover]

So you are thinking about going with a Pacific Energy stove now?

It’s a great stove but no, just seeing if it would fit.

Newburn, you gettin' ready to bust a move?

 

[Rockey]

This one had me at hello.

I was debating on installing a BK in the first floor fireplace hearth but after seeing this beauty my mind is made up. If I didn't have my hands full trying to finish up our inground pool, Id be all over it right now.

 

[Newburnerwisconsin]

Newburn, you gettin' ready to bust a move?

Soon, very soon. The new Lopi stoves are coming out in January. I just have to take a look at the new Liberty before a final decision.

 

[Woody Stover]

This one had me at hello. I was debating on installing a BK in the first floor fireplace hearth but after seeing this beauty my mind is made up.

That is one sweet-looking rig. The only thing in the ballpark would be a T6 in enamel..never mind.
Like the green-man sez, "KISS." That's one of the big reasons I got my SIL the T5.

 

[amateur]

I think the clearances did not change.

I failed to mention I'm talking about the insert.
The manual for series D shows 20.5" sidewall clearance and the LE sidewall clearance is 10"
Series D mantel clearance is 16" and the LE is 12"
There is no mention of a heat shield reduction option. Any ideas what change to the insert would result in a reduction in clearances?

 

[Rockey]

Do stove manufacturers have clearances to mantles? Im wondering if I will have to be concerned with a solid log mantle.

 

[Woody Stover]

Do stove manufacturers have clearances to mantles? Im wondering if I will have to be concerned with a solid log mantle.

Should be in the install section of the manual. You should be able to fab a shield if it's an issue..

 

[Highbeam]

Do stove manufacturers have clearances to mantles? Im wondering if I will have to be concerned with a solid log mantle.

Yes, often they have clearance to the ceiling too. My princess on a raised hearth barely made it.

 

[Rockey]

I downloaded the manual last night but only saw a 54" clearance to the ceiling. I can't find a clearance to the mantle.

 

[begreen]

I downloaded the manual last night but only saw a 54" clearance to the ceiling. I can't find a clearance to the mantle.

The Summit typically is not put in a fireplace. They probably have not tested it for mantel clearances.

 

[vwmike]

Anyone else notice looking at the specs that the new stoves have a higher minimum btu output? Makes me think the minimum air setting is a little higher yet again.

 

[amateur]

Anyone else notice looking at the specs that the new stoves have a higher minimum btu output? Makes me think the minimum air setting is a little higher yet again.

And that would suggest clearances should be greater, not less. But the LE clearances are significantly reduced from the series D. The manual says nothing about clearance reduction with a heat shield, but the manual does reference NFPA 211. My dealer says that by referencing NFPA in the installation section of the manual, that the NFPA rules override and any distance over 12" can be reduced to 12" with proper shielding.

 

[Sodbuster]

There is little correlation. The modeling is just part of the design process. FWIW Woodstock stoves have a pretty good track record and they have been using CFD for awhile. The new SBI stoves look promising too. Note that the vehicles we drive today are much more efficient and reliable due to this type of modeling.

Edit: The Boeing situation is entirely different and should be taken up in a separate thread in the Inglenook if interested. The problem there was not computers, but corporate decisions and outsourcing. Blaming computers is like blaming the hammer after you smash your finger with one.

Then take it up in another forum, bottom line is the plane is over computerized. Computers took over the plane, and over corrected to the point that they became unstable. If planes are going to be this computerized (and I'm not saying this is a bad thing, ) the pilots should have a button then can push to disable all computer controls, and fly the plane themselves, old school. If you were driving a Tesla, and things started going haywire, wouldn't you want a kill switch to manually take control of the car?

 

[Sodbuster]

I'm tempted to buy a NC30 just for backup, new models are often tested and problems corrected via consumer complaints/problems.