Pacific Energy Neo 1.6 Insert blower issue

[TedyOH]

Anyone else have issues with the blowers that are installed on these units? Mine last about 1.5 burning seasons....what happens (same issue on 3 blowers now, just installed the 4th and need a 5th soon) is that they use a cheap rubber grommet to hold the top of the bird cage fan in place on the frame of the blower. Over time this rubber grommet wears out and the bird cage develops a "wobble" while running......well this wobble cause vibrations and these vibrations get sent throughout the insert making it sound like there are beer cans vibrating inside. Needless to say quite annoying....the first two were under warranty, now i am S.O.L.

I do not know why they didn't use a bearing on the top, anything to save a dime I suppose.

Anyone know of any fix or replacement that would fit? I will spend money for a good blower that will last....these cheap crap things are costing me $125 each.

Other than the stupid blower design I love the look of the flush unit, well built, good burn times and heat for a small fire box...

Thanks.

 

[begreen]

Can yoj post a few pictures of the fan, installed and out that show the grommet and where it attaches?

 

[TedyOH]

I will when I get home (at work now). I have an old one, saving them hopefully for a fix, hate to toss out a perfectly fine blower for a bad 60 cent part.

I have also contacted the blower manufacture asking for the replacement grommet, they said because it's special made for P.E. I have to go through them.....well they never responded to my email or called me back. I'm one who doesn't like to repeat myself or ask for things twice.......I just "move on...." if you know what I mean.

 

[bcrtops]

I will when I get home (at work now). I have an old one, saving them hopefully for a fix, hate to toss out a perfectly fine blower for a bad 60 cent part.

I have also contacted the blower manufacture asking for the replacement grommet, they said because it's special made for P.E. I have to go through them.....well they never responded to my email or called me back. I'm one who doesn't like to repeat myself or ask for things twice.......I just "move on...." if you know what I mean.

Yes, my experience with PE is that their is NO CS at the manufacturer/factory level. I find that extremely disappointing in an otherwise very quality product.
Harass the dealer until you get those grommets! There is no reason not to get a simple part like that. In the very horrible distribution system that PE has set up -- the dealers & suppliers (warehouse markup guys) are supposed to take care of the customer. Most of the dealers seem to be Spa businesses that just sell stoves to have something to do in the winter -- which aggravates the situation considerably.

 

[begreen]

Fortunately we have a great dealer and almost no issues with the Alderlea, but I still occasionally contact PE for Hearth.com questions I can't answer. They usually respond within a week or two depending on the question.

In this case I suspect the design has something to do with vibration isolation. If so, there may be a workaround that is more permanent, but it may make the blower a bit noisier if a thru bolt is employed due to vibration transmission through the stove body. Good that you have an old blower to experiment with. I'm wondering if Sugru could be used to repair or refashion the broken grommet.

 

[TedyOH]

Harass the dealer until you get those grommets! There is no reason not to get a simple part like that.

Yeah I will.......they are a true fireplace shop that's been in business for as long as I can remember....30 + years....always treated me well.....I told them what the problem was when the blowers we under warranty, they didn't offer to see if they could get the grommets, they just gave me new complete units, maybe now they would.

I'm wondering if Sugru could be used to repair or refashion the broken grommet.

The grommet is not broken, it's worn out....I'll try to explain it......on top of the fan / bird cage there's an axle, this axle fits into a hole in the rubber grommet (that's mounted on the blower assembly where a bearing should be) the high revolutions of the axle wears out the hole (making it larger) and the fan then wobbles.........grommet on the top axle, bearing on the bottom axle.....horrible engineering....the pictures will show better. The assembly is mounted by three screws with foam between the motor and insert, I assume the foam is there for anti-vibration properties. I tried replacing the not so heavy duty metal screws with nut and bolt and loctite - no luck - still vibrated.

 

[TedyOH]

 

[begreen]

Got it, your explanation and the pictures illustrate the problem perfectly. I looks like there is a metal collar held captive by the grommet. Is that correct? If so I am wondering if a) the blower manufacturer has a bearing version of the blower that you could purchase or b) if a ball bearing could be fitted into a grommet or c) a ball bearing could be moulded in and held captive using Sugru (a mouldable glue).

For anyone with this blower I would recommend lubricating this shaft and sleeve with a good lithium lubricant at least once a season.

 

[TedyOH]

I never noticed but there is a collar or sleeve inside....it's made of plastic though....I'll try the manufacturer again but it's special made for P.E., I doubt they have the same one in a bearing version but I suppose I'll ask....all I really need is the little sleeve that goes inside.
Thanks

 

[begreen]

That's nuts to put a plastic sleeve bearing in there. It should be metal and lubricated.

 

[TedyOH]

That's nuts to put a plastic sleeve bearing in there. It should be metal and lubricated.

Or make the part readily available at .07 cents.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

 

[armanidog]

Or make the part readily available at .07 cents.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

This is a half inch ID by 1/2 inch length polymer sleeve bearing, 5 for around $5. They probably have other sizes as well.
https://www.grainger.com/product/IG...m/rp/s/is/image/Grainger/2NCK1_AS01?$smthumb$

They also have bronze sleeve bearings rated to 500F.

 

[TedyOH]

Yes thanks.....someone else recommend taking it to a grainger shop and seeing if they can match something up....

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[TedyOH]

I made an observation last night, I'm kinda shocked I didn't notice this before, but the "peak" of the vibrations seem to occur when the insert is cranking at its hottest / when secondaries are on full throttle. They were vibrating when i went to bed and quite this morning when i woke up. I suppose that high heat would make that plastic sleeve expand allowing for the bird cage to wobble and vibrate.

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[TedyOH]

For anyone with this blower I would recommend lubricating this shaft and sleeve with a good lithium lubricant at least once a season.

So the vibrations were so bad on the left motor that I actually unplugged it and only ran the right side...........having nothing to lose I took begreen's advice.... I removed the grommet and sleeve and lubricated it with brake caliper grease....1) because it's what I had in the garage 2) it has a kinda high heat rating.
Working like a charm, 3 days and running like brand new with zero vibrations. I will respond to this post once it starts getting noisy again and if another grease job fixes it again.

 

[begreen]

Good news. One thing I would be concerned about is if there are any oils in the lubricant. If yes, they might break down the plastic over time. Graphite is a safe lube if this is the case.

 

[ValleyCottageSplitter]

Yes. Poor design indeed. Viscoelastic/rubber damping materials should be put in parallel with some type of low creep/high strength material (metal such as steel\titanium) or used at specific low stress levels. They are using a bushing instead of a bearing? It makes no sense. It's likely delrin, a low friction (and cheap) plastic. It will also wear faster than a harder material, but may be quieter. It probably costs about $0.50 or less to manufacture that in quantity.

So is it the plastic bushing that is wearing out or the rubber grommet? You could check
Mcmaster for bearings, there might be something that fits: https://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-ball-and-roller-bearings/=16rt032
They have some replacements for the grommet too. I would just check the RPM range and the high temperature PEEK bearings might be safest if they meet the RPM range. That should drastically increase the life.

It looks like CRC brake grease is supposedly "rubber and plastic safe". It is meant for metal to metal surfaces, so it might not be ideal for lubrication but I don't think it will deteriorate the plastic.

 

[Slagathor]

Anyone else have issues with the blowers that are installed on these units? Mine last about 1.5 burning seasons....what happens (same issue on 3 blowers now, just installed the 4th and need a 5th soon) is that they use a cheap rubber grommet to hold the top of the bird cage fan in place on the frame of the blower. Over time this rubber grommet wears out and the bird cage develops a "wobble" while running......well this wobble cause vibrations and these vibrations get sent throughout the insert making it sound like there are beer cans vibrating inside. Needless to say quite annoying....the first two were under warranty, now i am S.O.L.

I do not know why they didn't use a bearing on the top, anything to save a dime I suppose.

Anyone know of any fix or replacement that would fit? I will spend money for a good blower that will last....these cheap crap things are costing me $125 each.

Other than the stupid blower design I love the look of the flush unit, well built, good burn times and heat for a small fire box...

Thanks.

Could you tell me where you are getting these blowers for $125 a pop? Only seeing 250 for one side, almost 400 for the other currently.

 

[Danfromoz]

Hi all, I have the same problem as the rest here. so is there a final consensus on the plan of action? I'm concluding that some form of lubricant may be the first and cheapest option? I don't have any graphite but would lithium grease type stuff be good? Did any of the grommet/seal replacement options get tried and tested by anyone? Thanks for any additional info you can provide me/us!

Do you think this is the correct replacement part perhaps? https://www.ghpgroupinc.com/product-details/229-0171.html

 

[begreen]

See above suggestions. I prefer graphite as a lubricant for plastics. Oil can break the plastic down. Your local hardware store will have graphite powder. It's often in the keys and locks section.
(broken link removed)

 

[Slagathor]

Hi all, I have the same problem as the rest here. so is there a final consensus on the plan of action? I'm concluding that some form of lubricant may be the first and cheapest option? I don't have any graphite but would lithium grease type stuff be good? Did any of the grommet/seal replacement options get tried and tested by anyone? Thanks for any additional info you can provide me/us!

Do you think this is the correct replacement part perhaps? https://www.ghpgroupinc.com/product-details/229-0171.html

I can’t speak to replacing the grommet, as I never did. I did glue one back together that had fallen apart a bit. However, I got replacement motor assemblies from Pacific Energy this year and it looks like they totally redid the top part of the motor. No more rubber grommet, but relatively sturdy looking piece made of plastic and metal.

These things ain’t cheap, though, especially online. The best way is to order them through a dealer. I saved well over $200 doing so.

However, after taking the old ones out and looking at them, I really wonder if a generic motor could work, like this: Amazon product ASIN B07WC8RCQ1
I’m just musing about that, and definitely don’t know what I’m doing, so don’t take my word on that.

 

[Jim McGuire]

Yeah I will.......they are a true fireplace shop that's been in business for as long as I can remember....30 + years....always treated me well.....I told them what the problem was when the blowers we under warranty, they didn't offer to see if they could get the grommets, they just gave me new complete units, maybe now they would.



The grommet is not broken, it's worn out....I'll try to explain it......on top of the fan / bird cage there's an axle, this axle fits into a hole in the rubber grommet (that's mounted on the blower assembly where a bearing should be) the high revolutions of the axle wears out the hole (making it larger) and the fan then wobbles.........grommet on the top axle, bearing on the bottom axle.....horrible engineering....the pictures will show better. The assembly is mounted by three screws with foam between the motor and insert, I assume the foam is there for anti-vibration properties. I tried replacing the not so heavy duty metal screws with nut and bolt and loctite - no luck - still vibrated.

I know this post is old, but I am looking for fellow Neo 1.6 owners. I have one and after 2 years my lower hinge for the door became loose where now I have to lift the door a little to close. I can move the hinge in and out and spin it around 360 degrees. The top hinge is solid to the stove. My dealer tells me this is normal??? I am wondering if others are experiencing the same with this stove. -thanks

 

[PMacG]

I can’t speak to replacing the grommet, as I never did. I did glue one back together that had fallen apart a bit. However, I got replacement motor assemblies from Pacific Energy this year and it looks like they totally redid the top part of the motor. No more rubber grommet, but relatively sturdy looking piece made of plastic and metal.

These things ain’t cheap, though, especially online. The best way is to order them through a dealer. I saved well over $200 doing so.

However, after taking the old ones out and looking at them, I really wonder if a generic motor could work, like this: Amazon product ASIN B07WC8RCQ1
I’m just musing about that, and definitely don’t know what I’m doing, so don’t take my word on that.

How are the new motors working out? I have had my Neo 1.6 since the fall of 2014 and replaced the motors maybe the next year due to the same noise/shrieking/rattling complaints. Over the years I have dealt with the same issues by trying to limit the vibrations (I actually have screws inserted into each of the rubber grommets on top of the motors) but have found my efforts are failing more and more, especially when the box gets really hot, as others have mentioned. So, I am now looking to replace and would like to know the processes you went through and what the results are now after a few months use. Thanks!