Pacific Energy Pacific Insert Cracks

[begreen]

That makes more sense. 2009 is about the time when the problems were first noted.

 

[Hogwildz]

Stove Bright is what PE uses, and can be had at local stores. I can't find the can to get the color name off of it, but it is a charcoal metallic.
Not sure when the A swapped to B, and it seems like a short time when B was changed to C bodies. You're the first issue with a B model I can remember hearing of.

I would wait to hear what PE is going to do before making any modifications. And would highly suggest not posting modifications for the world and who knows else to see. That may be used against you to deny warranty claims.

 

[begreen]

2009 would make it an A body.

 

[Hogwildz]

2009 would make it an A body.

I was thinking the same thing, but the face does not have the vertical face bar on each side of the door opening, where there is a seam from each upper door opening corner running up under the top cover. Unless they made freestanders differently than inserts.
On the inserts, they did away with that separate panel, and went with one pc of facing.

 

[begreen]

I was thinking the same thing, but the face does not have the vertical face bar on each side of the door opening, where there is a seam from each upper door opening corner running up under the top cover. Unless they made freestanders differently than inserts.
On the inserts, they did away with that separate panel, and went with one pc of facing.

The freestander may be different. Our 2008 Alderlea doesn't have that vertical facebar either.

 

[Fort Wisers]

Hey guys, sorry for the lack of replies, we had family over for a bit.
Hogwildz, I have zero intention of doing any mods unless PE decides they have washed their hands of the stove.
But thanks for the paint information just in case we have to go down that road, this is much appreciated.
begreen is correct, this is an A series stove, the back nameplate indicates as such. I can't comment on differences between the free standing stoves vs inserts as I don't know.

The new dealer we're dealing with indicated to us they have sent the information off to their PE rep and will get back to us when they hear something.

 

[dleeallen]

I'm battling with a cracked Summit insert now too. Not sure how long it's been that way - only noticed it early this past spring. Been working with my dealer to get a response from PE. Just got the offer of $250 towards welding. From reading this thread sounds like I need to do a bit more investigation and look for internal cracks. I only noticed the cracks at the top corners of the door opening. So hard to see it since the door is almost always closed. And I'm certainly not looking when the door is open for reloading! Honestly, I think the reason I noticed them is I upgraded the lighting in the room. Was pretty dim previously. Hoping they will honor a new stove/firebox rather than messing with welding.

 

[redktmrider]

To add more fuel to the fire (pun intended), I did the yearly cleaning and inspection on my Alderlea T5 insert today and found the following


This is on the right side of the door just inside the door gasket, it was not there at the start of last season.

This is just inside the door frame on the top right ( close to outside crack), just behind the air wash manifold.

This is just inside the door on the top left, behind the air wash manifold ( opposite side of the 2nd pic).

The insert is a Alderlea T5 series D. The manufactured date tag had no punches or stamps on it, bit the included inspection certificate was dated 10-2010.
I have contacted my local dealer and supplied him with the above pictures, so we will see how it unfolds.

 

[Fort Wisers]

After finding our cracks and mentioning this to my bro in-law, he decided to check his PE summit free stander (Also series A) and found similar cracking by the doors and a small crack in the baffle. He contacted his dealer and PE has offered a new baffle kit and $250 to repair the door area cracks. They also suggested that he install a flue damper (which he already has, as do we) to ensure over drafting isn't causing over firing.
Now, I'm fine with taking advice, but both he and I have ran stoves our entire lives and haven't had issues with cracks on previous stoves. I suspect most people writing on this thread are in a similar situation (seasoned burners). Is PE suggesting we've all gone and forgotten how to use a stove? Or are we having to re-learn because these stoves are less forgiving then older heavier built unit?
The letter he received from PE was dated 2001.

Just thought it an interesting response that they'll fix the issue but suggest end user error.
Still sitting tight on the dealer we contacted.

 

[Fort Wisers]

Got off the horn with the dealer, PE will give us a new baffle kit and $250 towards welding. The conversation turned towards the logistics of getting the stove removed from the home, transporting to the weld shop and then and re-installing afterwards.
I mentioned to her that we're capable of doing this work ourselves, she seemed "iffy" on that and said she'd have to run that by PE to see if they were fine with us doing the removal and re-installation as opposed to them (being a dealer).

So we're still waiting, but at least we're making some progress on the topic.
Anyone else run into this issue (dealer concerned the warranty won't be honoured unless they do remove and re-install)?

Happy Thanksgiving to the fellow Canucks on the board!

 

[redktmrider]

I mentioned to her that we're capable of doing this work ourselves, she seemed "iffy" on that and said she'd have to run that by PE to see if they were fine with us doing the removal and re-installation as apposed to them (being a dealer).

I find that very interesting as my PE local dealer subs out all his installs to the local sweeps. If they insist on it being a professional, you might want to shop around and find somebody that you can "assist". In my case, I've spent quite a bit of time correcting the mistakes made by the stove shop (not the same dealer that as mentioned above) that installed my PE. I am thankful I found a reputable dealer for the sale and install on my Ashford.

 

[Fort Wisers]

Dealer has now agreed that we are allowed to perform our own removal and re-installation.
However they are stating that PE will only allow the warranty repair to proceed if we agree to have a draft measurement done after the re-installation.
$250
We've decided to play hard ball at this point as it seems every response we get from this dealer is another reason for them to charge us money.
So,we went back to them and said we'll agree on a draft measurement however we'd like to do it on the current installation with the expectation of the following results:

A. The system overdrafts - in which case we'd like to know how as we're running an external brick / steel lined chimney, two 90 degree bends to get there and a flue damper. The flue damper is considered PE's choice of control measures to protect against over draft. We already explained to the dealer that with the air intake on "L" and the flue damper closed we can pretty much choke the fire to nothing (indicating adequate control).
Also, if the system, as is, is over drafting, what other measures can be added to control the draft. AND how poorly choked of a fire should we be running to produce what PE considers reasonable (contrary to all other reasonable techniques generally taken as "best practices" in terms of a fire not being so poorly chocked that excessive creosote and exhaust particulate become an issue).

B. The system has proper controls in place to prevent over drafting - in which case then we'd prefer to have a new stove vs a repaired one as there's obviously an issue with the stove that is not going to be solved by welding over the current cracks.

The dealer has yet to produce anything in writing from PE / distributor that a draft measurement is a 100% requirement after re-installation to proceed with warranty.
My brother inlaw has made the same claim with his stove but different dealer. He put his claim in after we did and just picked up his repaired stove today. We're getting a little frustrated but don't feel like we should be forced to pay anyone to have warranty work done, especially considering we've seen nothing from PE themselves, for all we know the claim is in and pending.

We hate this back and forth and are people who don't enjoy conflict, we simply wanted our stove fixed as per the terms of the PE warranty.
This all started with just a baffle and now we can't even use our stove.
Does anyone know if there's an alternate way of making warranty claims other then through a local dealer?
Is there a regional distributor we can get a hold of?

 

[WoodyIsGoody]

Dealer has now agreed that we are allowed to perform our own removal and re-installation.
However they are stating that PE will only allow the warranty repair to proceed if we agree to have a draft measurement done after the re-installation.
$250
We've decided to play hard ball at this point as it seems every response we get from this dealer is another reason for them to charge us money.
So,we went back to them and said we'll agree on a draft measurement however we'd like to do it on the current installation with the expectation of the following results:

A. The system overdrafts - in which case we'd like to know how as we're running an external brick / steel lined chimney, two 90 degree bends to get there and a flue damper. The flue damper is considered PE's choice of control measures to protect against over draft. We already explained to the dealer that with the air intake on "L" and the flue damper closed we can pretty much choke the fire to nothing (indicating adequate control).
Also, if the system, as is, is over drafting, what other measures can be added to control the draft. AND how poorly choked of a fire should we be running to produce what PE considers reasonable (contrary to all other reasonable techniques generally taken as "best practices" in terms of a fire not being so poorly chocked that excessive creosote and exhaust particulate become an issue).

B. The system has proper controls in place to prevent over drafting - in which case then we'd prefer to have a new stove vs a repaired one as there's obviously an issue with the stove that is not going to be solved by welding over the current cracks.

The dealer has yet to produce anything in writing from PE / distributor that a draft measurement is a 100% requirement after re-installation to proceed with warranty.
My brother inlaw has made the same claim with his stove but different dealer. He put his claim in after we did and just picked up his repaired stove today. We're getting a little frustrated but don't feel like we should be forced to pay anyone to have warranty work done, especially considering we've seen nothing from PE themselves, for all we know the claim is in and pending.

We hate this back and forth and are people who don't enjoy conflict, we simply wanted our stove fixed as per the terms of the PE warranty.
This all started with just a baffle and now we can't even use our stove.
Does anyone know if there's an alternate way of making warranty claims other then through a local dealer?
Is there a regional distributor we can get a hold of?

I think your position sounds very reasonable and I hope you prevail.

And I'm sorry this happened to you because I'm sure it's not very pleasant.

 

[Fort Wisers]

Thanks @WoodyIsGoody, such is life.
We will hold tight and see what they come back with. In the mean time we've reached out to who we believe the distributor is.
We're close to burn season and we'd love to have this all resolved before such.
Unseasonable warm weather is actually working in our favour on this one.

 

[begreen]

My hypothesis on the older Summits is that the culprit may have been the model A EBT. I didn't need more than a month of burning with it in cold temps to start doubting its safe operation with strong draft. In theory it is to ensure more complete combustion of wood gases in the large firebox. Indeed it did that, but feeding additional boost air at the base of the fire with a full box of doug fir right as the fire is taking off can lead to too much fire. When stove top temps kept passing 750º and climbing I decided to block off the EBT intake so that there would be no boost air. That made a major difference in controllability with large fuel loads. It has remained taped off since. The new EBT 2 now functions quite differently. It only feeds secondary air, barometrically. This looks like a much better design.

I'm not sure if the early EBT design was the cause for the cracking and maybe baffle front issues, but it seems suspect. It may be fine on a 12' flue system, but on our 20' stack, on a 25º day, the fire was getting too much air.

 

[Fort Wisers]

Thanks @begreen maybe while we wait for this dealer / distributor correspondence to work out we'll take a good look at our EBT system as well.
I'd be inclined, like you, to simply seal it up. We appreciate the insight.

EDIT: Distributor is now investigating the warranty claim.

 

[begreen]

Thanks @begreen maybe while we wait for this dealer / distributor correspondence to work out we'll take a good look at our EBT system as well.
I'd be inclined, like you, to simply seal it up. We appreciate the insight.

EDIT: Distributor is now investigating the warranty claim.

Good luck. Politely, stand your ground.

 

[Fort Wisers]

Thanks @begreen, doing our best, I think I've fallen down a time or two on the polite part but trying to stay civil anyhow.

 

[Fort Wisers]

Still no response from anyone, tomorrow I start hounding on the phone.
Tonight the temps are dropping near 0 deg C (32F) again, to hell with it, we're having a fire........

 

[Fort Wisers]

Finally got fed up and called distributor, after some discussion they suggested dealing with a new dealer. Went to new dealer and now all is well. They will push the warranty claim through, $250 for welding and a new baffle kit. No strings attached.
Happy to be moving forward!

 

[Hogwildz]

Document the entire process with photos, including the repairs. Load up for bear, even if you end up not needing it.
While you have it out, drop the EBT set up and make sure the flapper is in properly and operational.
I found mine to be dislodged from the factory, and therefore it was never operating properly and was constantly open, feeding the added air to the fire.

I'm more suspect of the way the sides of the air wash plate are welded tight to each side of the opening. If I was still burning my A model, I might consider cutting those end welds loose, or at least cut them loose except for a small spot on each end. I don't suggest that for you as it may bring more warranty issues. Just go with the flow for now, and if the welds fail, press for a new stove, newer body model.

 

[Fort Wisers]

Document the entire process with photos, including the repairs. Load up for bear, even if you end up not needing it.
While you have it out, drop the EBT set up and make sure the flapper is in properly and operational.
I found mine to be dislodged from the factory, and therefore it was never operating properly and was constantly open, feeding the added air to the fire.

I'm more suspect of the way the sides of the air wash plate are welded tight to each side of the opening. If I was still burning my A model, I might consider cutting those end welds loose, or at least cut them loose except for a small spot on each end. I don't suggest that for you as it may bring more warranty issues. Just go with the flow for now, and if the welds fail, press for a new stove, newer body model.

Thanks @Hogwildz appreciate the insight and advice.
I too feel the same about the air wash plate and how all four weld beads locate right up to that point of failure.
As you say though, no point in modifying at this point. We'll follow suit as they would like us to and then give it time again.
Thanks again

 

[begreen]

If your draft is strong a (reversible) mod to try is taping off the ebt intake with metal tape or a flat magnet to see if that improves controllability of the fire. This made a notable improvement with our stove's older EBT1. AFAIK, it's not necessary with the EBT2 design.

 

[Fort Wisers]

If your draft is strong a (reversible) mod to try is taping off the ebt intake with metal tape or a flat magnet to see if that improves controllability of the fire. This made a notable improvement with our stove's older EBT1. AFAIK, it's not necessary with the EBT2 design.

Sorry, I meant to comment on EBT, I've been thinking about since reading some other posts about it. We checked ours out at some point through all this and everything seems to move freely. But given the current state of the stove we haven't had any strong fires to test the actual functionality. With the current setup, we can choke the fire down to near zero with the air intake a low and the flue damper closed up, so I believe we have decent draft control. This all being said, I do agree with a statement you made early in this thread @begreen that with a long chimney stack (which we have, albeit external brick) perhaps there's enough draft to "suck" the flapper open when it shouldn't be. We will likely take your advice and block it off (in a reversible manner). Personally, we'd rather lose the EBT function then have the stove over fired due to a malfunction.
This forum has proved invaluable, thanks to everyone who works hard to keep it alive and fill it with such great information.

 

[Fort Wisers]

Well, I gotta say we're getting quite frustrated trying to get this resolved. Especially with a low of 14F/-10C coming tomorrow night. The distributor recommended a new dealer as we couldn't get a response from the first dealer without them looking to charge money. I talked on the phone with the distributor and they ended with "the new dealer should push this through quick as the warranty work is approved". My wife originally talked to this new dealer and the service seemed very good. However she talked to a sales person as the person who could deal with the warranty claim was out of office. The sales person asked us to send all the original information we sent to the first dealer via email so we followed suit. Then we waited for about a week. I ended up calling to ensure the email actually arrived. I talked to the gentleman who deals with warranty claims and he looked over the email and mentioned he just hadn't gotten around to looking into the claim, he would do so and call us back that day or the day after. That was maybe another week ago? I'm going to go ahead and call again today but this is getting aggravating. I'm getting the feeling that everyone we talk to is annoyed with us. All we really want is to get our stove fixed and move on with life. I hate to start throwing blame but it's not our fault the original dealer we purchased from has gone under. To be honest, we're not quite sure where to turn now?

We're a quite disappointed in the whole PE warranty claim process at this point......