Pacific Energy Pacific Insert Cracks

[Fort Wisers]

As luck would have it, we heard from the dealer this afternoon. He hadn't contacted us because he was worried about not finding a good welder in our area. We had already had a welder lined up as we've had other fab work done before (unrelated to stoves). So early next week we'll dismantle we'll get everything started! Finally. I think he was relieved that we had already lined up a welder etc and seemed happy we were willing to take care of that portion of the job (transport to welder, re-install etc), leaving him just to handle the weld repair receipt submission and ordering of the baffle kit.
He has assured us a baffle kit wass on it's way as well.

Very nice end to the day!
Thanks everyone for all the support and guidance, we'll post up some pics of the fix when it's all completed.

 

[redktmrider]

As luck would have it, we heard from the dealer this afternoon.

Glad you finally received a resolution to your warranty claim. What was the total time span from initial contact to the response today?

I contacted my dealer on October 3, received a update on the 25th saying that the regional distributor contacted the manufacturer again that day.
No more news after that. This kind of customer service might make a person hesitant to buy another PE product again.

 

[Fort Wisers]

Glad you finally received a resolution to your warranty claim. What was the total time span from initial contact to the response today?

I contacted my dealer on October 3, received a update on the 25th saying that the regional distributor contacted the manufacturer again that day.
No more news after that. This kind of customer service might make a person hesitant to buy another PE product again.

Our very first message, sent to PE directly as our dealer had closed, was 15-Sept-2017.
So we'll be ~ 2 months by the time the stove is repaired and back in service.

Now, in PEs defence in this case, I think most of the time wasted was due to the first dealer looking to find and angle to make money. When I talked to the distributor I think by the end of the conversation he agreed.
However, PE was kept in the loop pretty much the entire time so it would have been nice if someone on their end stepped in and said something.
However, when multiple contacts get involved, things tend to get a little confused and over-looked.

We'll move forward but I suspect a repair isn't the end of this......

 

[Fort Wisers]

Stove is back from the weld shop and re-installed. Still waiting for the dealer to get our baffle kit but with the cooler temps coming we're happy to have our primary stove back in place. A baffle will be an easy swap at this point.
Just having a small fire right now to ensure the welding will hold and help cure the paint.

 

[redktmrider]

Stove is back from the weld shop and re-installed. Still waiting for the dealer to get our baffle kit but with the cooler temps coming we're happy to have our primary stove back in place. A baffle will be an easy swap at this point.
Just having a small fire right now to ensure the welding will hold and help cure the paint.

Glad you have your stove back. Please keep us updated how it holds up after the repairs.

Still have heard nothing since October 25 on my warranty claim, but it is now the burning season so PE is probably very busy.

 

[Fort Wisers]

Been meaning to post for a week now. The baffle and cheque for weld repair finally showed up at the dealer last week. Brought baffle home and installed the next day. Been running 24/7 since. Last night we dipped to -14C (6.8F) and the main floor of the house was still 21C (69.8F) after an overnight burn this morning. We're not into our cold weather yet but happy to have the stove back up and running with everything fixed. They sent us a series B baffle as replacement, there's an extra bar welded onto it compared to the original.
Even after all this trouble we're still happy with the stove and hope for many more years of good use, time will tell if the weld repairs and the new baffle hold up.

 

[redktmrider]

Brought baffle home and installed the next day. Been running 24/7 since

I"m glad you have a fully functional stove before your cold weather hits. I had mine fired up a couple nights ago(cracks and all)to help out the blaze king as it got into the teens(F) here. Will probably fire it up again tomorrow night as more of the same temperatures are expected.

I have not heard anything from my dealer, but I haven't been very persistent as I use the other stove most of the time.

 

[redktmrider]

However they are stating that PE will only allow the warranty repair to proceed if we agree to have a draft measurement done after the re-installation.
$250

Did they stand their ground on having the draft measured as part of the warranty claim?

 

[Fort Wisers]

@redktmrider

Hope you hear something soon. We did run our stove a number of times with the cracks with no issues. But it has been a sense of relief to have everything finalised.

In regards to the draft measurement, that statement of requirement was made by the first dealer we tried to make the claim through, it was never confirmed in writing from PE or the distributor as a requirement. Once we started dealing with the second dealer the true intent of the requirement was made clear, it was noted in the warranty claim as a recommendation IF a draft damper wasn't already in place. We explained the installation to the second dealer and everything went without a hitch.

 

[redktmrider]

My dealer emailed me on Jan 2 with the following info from the Tech department

"The unit appears to be subjected to high draft or use on high settings as evidenced by the cracks and the bright red/orange of the baffle rail saddles.
We will offer up to $250 for the weld repair of the cracks. The repair can be done by a competent welder using techniques for mild steel. A receipt for welding is required."

I am OK with this but the the time span it took to come to that conclusion was a little ridiculous. I first contacted my dealer on October 3 and he copied me on the email he sent that same day.

I will pull the unit in the spring and have it repaired as it is in full use right now. As for the "high draft", I am having a problem right now with over firing (probably due to the cracks), and I will address that when it is repaired. Before the damaged appeared, I monitored the stove top temps carefully and rarely did it exceed 800F.

 

[begreen]

Yes, the time delay is not acceptable. The conclusion may be correct, a stove run consistently at very high temps is going to wear out faster. It's hard to measure temps accurately on an insert. 800F on the face would equate to a much higher temp elsewhere. FWIW, our stove has only seen 800F once, directly read on the stovetop in 9 years.

 

[redktmrider]

800F on the face would equate to a much higher temp elsewhere

I measure mine on the top right in front of the flu using a IR gun. I am thinking about getting an Auber digital thermometer to make the measuring process easier.

 

[dleeallen]

It's a shame PE won't tell us where to measure the temp and what max temp should be. I can find what I think is the highest temp with an ir gun near the top corner of the door opening but move 1/2" and have it change drastically.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[begreen]

Unfortunately most steel stove companies don't tell you this in their manuals. Some don't even mention using a thermometer. They just warn about overfiring. That isn't too helpful. On flat top steel stoves, I set the thermometer about 3" in front and about 5-6" to the left or right of the flue collar.

 

[Fort Wisers]

Well folks, we're nearing the end of our burn season so we've been letting the fire burn right out more often these days as outside temps dictate.

One morning, while re-lighting, I took a bit of a look at everything that was repaired / replaced during last fall's events.
The weld repairs seem to have held up so far but the new baffle is warped again.
No splitting but it's certainly not flat, going to go have a closer look at everything and get a picture later when we let it burn down again.


I don't know what to say, we followed PE's/dealers recommendations other then getting a draft report done (whihc was only asked for by the first dealer we dealt with).
EBT is blocked off, the cracks were repaired and we installed the new baffle (warranty).

We have been so worried about something happening again that we never ran the thing more than just above "L" and the flue damper has been closed about 60-80% through all burning (other then cold startup). A large portion of the time we keep it so choked down now we're back to the old days of a smouldering fire (IE reburner jets not even producing flames). At this point I'm almost willing to get a draft report done to show PE we can choke our stove down to levels that aren't even conducive to proper reburning of emissions and ask them "whats next".....
To be honest, even if by some miracle they stepped up to the plate and gave us a new stove, i'm not sure I'd want it knowing it may just be another head ache to deal with. The other half of me want's to scrap the stove and start again.

Stove top temps never hit much past ~650 (checking at the grate portion where we can access the actual plate top of the stove).
Since the baffle is not cracked we're not going to do anything but I'm getting the sinking feeling that we spent thousands on a stove that is certainly not going to give us a lifetime of use.

We understand the concept of an EPA stove, we agree with the idea of burning more efficiently to help with emissions but nothing is being helped if the stoves and / or parts have to be scrapped every decade. We feel we did our due diligence, we researched what we felt was the best stove we could afford to meet our heating needs, it's not like we bought a cheap stove from some unknown company. Yet now we're stuck with what seems like it's going to be a never ending problem. We have two fisher stoves for use at our cabin and in our garage. Both have been fired much harder, neither have a crack, a warp or any other physical issues and other then sweeping the chimney every year and cleaning them out to check on the bricks etc they require zero maintenance and both are over 4 decades old.

PE: Your customers believe in EPA rated stoves, we believe in doing our part to help with the environment, we believe in responsible burning, now it's your turn. You need to close the loop on your product life cycles, come up with more realistic design criteria and build something that is going to last like older, heavier built stoves do. Nothing lasts forever but you're only creating a new environmental problem if your stoves are scrap after a decade, and you're going to lose customers while doing so.
We were huge fans of this stove, we raved about it time and time again, until the issues started to arise. Are you going to continue to stand behind your design and blame your customers until they all walk away from you? We're not all first time wood burners, some of us have been burning wood as long as you've been building stoves. Look through the past posts.....are we all just too dumb to use your stove or is there something else going on here?

Sorry for the rant everyone, just a little miffed with this stove considering we enjoyed it so much for a number of years until the issues arose.

Anyone else have much to report?

 

[begreen]

Something is not right. Has anything been done to reduce draft on this tall flue?

Not sure if this will help. This is what our baffle looks like after 10 seasons of burning (1 at the dealer and 9 at our house). I've included the airwash edge for visual comparison.

 

[Fort Wisers]

Something is not right. Has anything been done to reduce draft on this tall flue?

Not sure if this will help. This is what our baffle looks like after 10 seasons of burning (1 at the dealer and 9 at our house). I've included the airwash edge for visual comparison.

View attachment 225596

Hey @begreen, we've had a flue damper installed for a few years now.
Like I said, with the damper closed we can choke it down to the point that there are little to no flames, neither off wood or off the secondary reburner jets. I'll get a pic later tonight, ours is not certainly as flat as what you have pictured.

Help me out here, if our draft was too strong would we not have other indicators like uncontrollable firebox flaming, shorter burn times, high stove top temps?

 

[begreen]

That sux, I'm sorry to hear you are still having issues. Something is not right. There may be an undiscovered crack or leak somewhere. Keep your dealer and PE appraised.

 

[Fort Wisers]

Went down and took a pic.
I used use the method @begreen used and included the air knife as reference (good idea).
There are still some coals burning away, I'm going to let it burn right out overnight, empty it and start the same process of clean out and inspection we did last fall.....what a pain.

 

[begreen]

Lightened up a bit to see better. It's hard to understand how that has already started warping under low fire. The baffle is very stout.

 

[Fort Wisers]

Thank you good sir.
In regards to why it's warping i don't know what to say......I'll inspect tomorrow sometime after we can clean it right out.
I agree with you begreen that it's warped very quickly but i don't know what else to say or look for?
(We didn't have any baffle warping issues that we noticed the first few years we owned the stove, perhaps we weren't as sensitive to checking for issues?)

There seems to be no evidence of over firing, stove top temps are checked now and then and the flue has a damper. For example, today we loaded two pieces of poplar (we're into the shoulder season "junk wood") at 10:00am this morning, it's now 6 hours into the burn and there's still a large amount of coals (I've had it choked all day). While i wouldn't expect two pieces of poplar even running wide open to run things all that hot, the stove was choked the entire time (except for maybe 5 minutes after load). If there was an excessive draft, or a leak somewhere else in the stove body I would've expected it to be hard to get burn times like that with just two pieces poplar (not the finest wood for burn duration, similar to pine)? I'd also expect to be heated out of the room all the time, and we haven't had any of this.

I believe @Hogwildz had baffle warping issues on both his baffles, we'll be interested to hear his experience.

 

[Hogwildz]

The baffles warp, there is nothing that can be done about it. The warping does no affect the burns though.
The newer baffles are different then the earlier version. I believe they have some kind of stiffeners inside them. Now they seem to bow upward instead of the older ones bowing downward in the front. Further back on the bottom side, they will sag down a bit.
My new baffle is def warped more than the old one did, and is cracked at one of the front jet holes on front, again does not affect the burn in my insert. So I just let it be, and burn on.

My biggest concern on the new models, is the top flame shield plate under the stove ceiling is narrower than the original, and has w wing plate I'll call it, that stops the flames from going direct to the outlet, and makes them go around and then up and into the outlet. I found my stove top slightly glowing no matter what I did. So I removed the new plate and installed the older wider one. Problem solved.

If I was you, I would cut the air lever all the way to low when up to temp, and use the flue damper as fine adjustment. I have no crack issues a few years into burning the new B model they sent me.

 

[Fort Wisers]

Hey @Hogwildz thanks for the feedback. Yeah the new baffle they sent is the newer design, and as you can see from the picture the bow is upward as you've described. We generally run the air intake cracked just above "L" (after up to about 600), if we close it right off we tend to loose air jets after maybe 15-20 mins, even with the flue damper opened up. So our routine has been get it up to about 600, close the air intake to just above "L" and then set the flue damper to keep a decent air jet but nothing more. In this fashion we get about 2-3 hours of air jet burn and then the remainder 5-6 hours as the coal phase. When we were playing with this we'd monitor the stove top every couple of hours......as time has progressed we only check it every once in a while as we thought we had a good routine and generally ran around 650.

Your notes on the top flame shield are very interesting, I didn't even realise our stove had this until we pulled everything apart in the fall.
We have the older single plate design though.
To the best of my knowledge the stove has never seen cherry red, but this model (Summit Classic) has a lot of shrouding.
There's a top grate, we shot the IR through the grate opening (off to the side) to take our stove top temps.

So I guess the moral of the story is we just live with the warped baffle and even if it cracks a bit that's just sort of the expected outcome of this particular stove......

Haven't had a chance to clean the stove out and inspect for anything further.

 

[bryankloos]

Hey All,

I'm on my 4th season with a PE summit, bought new in 2014 with a professional install. I'm on my second baffle, the second of which is 1 year old and showing downward warping. The first had the fiber board top which cracked in several locations. The second baffle has the solid metal top. I've never overheated the stove!

Lately I've noticed that the stove tends to get hotter than in the past with the air intake totally closed, using it the same manner as in the past (air open, temp up to 450-500, shut the damper, let it climb to 650 and then coast for the duration of the burn). I've also noticed my burn times starting to decrease. Maybe I'm using better, drier wood?? I suspect maybe a door gasket leak, or at least hope this is all it is... I plan to do a good clean and inspection later this month when I shut her down for the season. I'm hopeful I don't find any cracks or leak sources. I too will be fairly miffed if my 4 year old stove has significant issues. I'll report back with findings.

 

[Hogwildz]

Hey @Hogwildz thanks for the feedback. Yeah the new baffle they sent is the newer design, and as you can see from the picture the bow is upward as you've described. We generally run the air intake cracked just above "L" (after up to about 600), if we close it right off we tend to loose air jets after maybe 15-20 mins, even with the flue damper opened up. So our routine has been get it up to about 600, close the air intake to just above "L" and then set the flue damper to keep a decent air jet but nothing more. In this fashion we get about 2-3 hours of air jet burn and then the remainder 5-6 hours as the coal phase. When we were playing with this we'd monitor the stove top every couple of hours......as time has progressed we only check it every once in a while as we thought we had a good routine and generally ran around 650.

Your notes on the top flame shield are very interesting, I didn't even realise our stove had this until we pulled everything apart in the fall.
We have the older single plate design though.
To the best of my knowledge the stove has never seen cherry red, but this model (Summit Classic) has a lot of shrouding.
There's a top grate, we shot the IR through the grate opening (off to the side) to take our stove top temps.

So I guess the moral of the story is we just live with the warped baffle and even if it cracks a bit that's just sort of the expected outcome of this particular stove......

Haven't had a chance to clean the stove out and inspect for anything further.

I don't know your flue set up, but 600 for me is way too high to be setting the air back at. I cut back about 400 measured as insert face above both door corners. And she takes it from there. Even is I don't get secondaries right away, it will get itself above 600 on it's own, over 700, and then give the same flame show you speak of for the next few hours. I have 27' of liner, and must cut the air all the way back.
I don't reload for another 12hours, longer in shoulder season. Try experimenting more with air settings at different temps. If I cut the air back at 600, it would be north to 800 in 20-30 minutes.