PE EBT2 flapper tapping

[palometa]

Hi everybody, first of all excuse my English, it is not very good, but there is no forum in my language about this thread and I really need help. I´m going to try to explain it the best I can... I recently installed the Alderlea T6, and the EBT 2 makes a constant noise as soon as it makes some air outside, regardless of whether it´s working or not. It is very annoying, like a “click” noise, every time the trapdoor opens and closes… I attached a video so you can see it.
We don´t know if it is an improper installation or any other problem, but the installers say it's normal. We don´t think so because it's really annoying to hear this sound all the time. If someone could tell me if their EBT 2 make that noise too, or it's something that shouldn't happen I would greatly appreciate it. This type of stove is not common in our country and we don´t know where to go to ask for an opinion. Thank you for your help, and I apologize again for my incorrect English.

 

[begreen]

Welcome, your English is very good. Much better than my Spanish.

It is possible for the flapper to tap like this, especially on windy days. I don't know this idea this will fix the problem, but here is a trick I used on our old Resolute's air damper. Take a small magnet, not too powerful and place it on the edge of the EBT2 flapper air opening so that it slightly overlaps the hole. This should make just a little contact with the EBT2 flapper so that it holds it in place, but not so strongly that the flapper can not open when the secondary air need is strong. This may take some experimentation. If it works it will stop the random tapping and make the EBT2 function more positively. Please let me know if this works for you.

 

[mar13]

Hi everybody, first of all excuse my English, it is not very good, but there is no forum in my language about this thread and I really need help. I´m going to try to explain it the best I can... I recently installed the Alderlea T6, and the EBT 2 makes a constant noise as soon as it makes some air outside, regardless of whether it´s working or not. It is very annoying, like a “click” noise, every time the trapdoor opens and closes… I attached a video so you can see it.
We don´t know if it is an improper installation or any other problem, but the installers say it's normal. We don´t think so because it's really annoying to hear this sound all the time. If someone could tell me if their EBT 2 make that noise too, or it's something that shouldn't happen I would greatly appreciate it. This type of stove is not common in our country and we don´t know where to go to ask for an opinion. Thank you for your help, and I apologize again for my incorrect English.
View attachment 255324

Nice video. I don't have personal experience with the EBT2 making noise, but I did recall it being mentioned in other threads. For example, here is one thread: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/pacific-energy-extended-burn-technology.165204/#post-2215629

 

[mar13]

Here's another thread where a person mentions wind resulting in the noise from the EBT2. The discussion, however, goes on to talk about something else. https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/pe-summit-wind-noise.158073/#post-2120479

 

[palometa]

Thanks for your advice, I'm glad you understand my situation. The flapper taps more frequently on windy days, but keep making that noise every day, even without wind. We are going to take your advise, putting the little magnet, and we will tell you the results.

Here I share a picture where you can see how the stove pipe installation has been made, because we think that is not high enough with respect to the highest part of the roof, and that may be the consequence of more air is entering inside our stove, because the air sounds a lot inside the chimney too, like you can hear in the video below.


That was a windy day, but sometimes it sounds like this without so much wind.
Thank you for your help!!

 

[palometa]

Here's another thread where a person mentions wind resulting in the noise from the EBT2. The discussion, however, goes on to talk about something else. https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/pe-summit-wind-noise.158073/#post-2120479

I will take a look, thank you very much!

 

[begreen]

It looks like there is not much of a cap on the chimney. A more wind resistant cap might help.

 

[Derf Summerfreeze]

I thought I would add to this thread with a modification I made to my 2022 Alderlea T6. I started using this stove this week and quite like it except that the EBT2 damper was rattling in high wind gusts. I have a 36 foot tall chimney in my old Victorian farm house and there is plenty of draught even without the wind which often blows hard here in Bruce County Ontario. The rattling EBT damper drove my wife and I crazy for one day and the next day was windy too, so I removed the blower and gained access to the inspection cover on the back on the EBT. Once removed, with air entering the inspection hole, the damper is visible and you can see it oscillating rapidly. Unlike the video from the original poster of the thread my EBT is not visible with the ash pan removed as there is a rivetted in shield hiding it completely. (The only access is from the back side of the stove and that access is quite limited) With the cover off, and air bypassing the damper, the damper oscillates with a lower average amplitude and doesn't hit the top except on occasion. I considered leaving the cover off, but this defeats the purpose of the EBT which is primarily to shut off most of the secondary air flow once the flames have subsided, and with the cover off, too much secondary air flows which doesn't allow enough pre-heat time for the secondary air to function except at high stove temperature.

Unlike the original poster of this thread, who I believe has a tapping EBT damper on the closed side (probably due to a short chimney in a warmer climate), mine was tapping on the open side due to excessive flue vacuum. When the damper taps the open side it makes a 'tink-tink' sound and when tapping on the closed position, the frequency is lower and it makes a 'tunk-tunk' sound. Both tinks or tunks are annoying. On a whim, I decided to make an adjustable cover for the EBT inlet hole so I could limit the air flow through the EBT. The EBT already has 4 holes in it to provide a minimum flow and the damper simply shuts off most of the flow once secondary air is no longer needed and this happens when the flue vacuum reduces sufficiently. Secondary air flow when no longer needed only serves to cool down the stove and cause the fire to extinguish prematurely. In my house it also draws warm air from the room up the chimney since I don't have an outside air supply, so the EBT should keep the room(and stove) warmer for the next morning. Anyway, the homemade cover fits under the inspection cover and fits through the gap in the back heat shield. By bending the tab down in increments I was able to make the damper neither tink or tunk as it now modulates nicely between the open and closed limits on windy or calm days. Secondary burn still starts at 200 degrees F stack temperature which is quite remarkable IMO, so kudos to PE for that. What PE should do however, is make an adjustable opening for the EBT so it can be matched to chimney height. It would be very easy to do. I hope this helps someone else. See the picture. It shows my quickly made adjustable cover that sandwiches between the original inspection cover and gasket (I omitted the gasket in the photo). The tab sits just below the main inlet hole of the EBT and acts as a fixed damper in series with the EBT's moving damper. Derf

 

[begreen]

What is the flue temperature during peak secondary burn? Is this being measured with a surface thermometer on single-wall or a probe in double-wall stovepipe?
I think a 36 ft tall chimney exceeds design parameters. There should be one and possibly two key dampers in the stovepipe to tame the draft. That is recommended instead of modifying the stove.

 

[Derf Summerfreeze]

I run mine between 400 and 800 degrees F and have never had a creosote problem. However, I expect better results with the Alderlea over the Regency I ran for 30 years as it needed higher temps for the secondary burn. It was also harder to control with the smaller firebox and excessive secondary air flow. My insurance company frowns on stove pipe dampers. Derf

 

[begreen]

Tell the insurance company it is endorsed by the manufacturer in cases of high draft. From PE's FAQ:
Should I use a flue damper?
Flue dampers can be considered in situation with excessive draft, please consult with your local Pacific Energy Dealer before making any modifications.

https://www.pacificenergy.net/faqs/

 

[Derf Summerfreeze]

Stove pipe dampers work, but they also introduce other problems. I would prefer maximum vacuum in the stove cavity for safety from noxious gasses and asphyxiants entering the house (which is the main concern of insurance companies too, btw). Air flow can be limited by a stove pipe damper or at the stove inlet. My PE is now working within the design parameters it was designed to work with. With 30 plus years using this 'system' with less than a half gallon of soot to contend with and 18 plus cords burnt a year, I'm going to keep doing what works. Derf

 

[begreen]

Yes, that could be a possible concern in the opposite circumstance with a 10ft flue. With draft that strong, the bigger concern might be sucking a firebrick up the flue. Both PE and the insurance co. would be more concerned with stove modification.

 

[Derf Summerfreeze]

OK Now you're just being ridiculous. If someone wants to do this they can. If you think it is highly dangerous, then go ahead and remove my post. I really don't care enough to continue the 'debate' Derf

 

[begreen]

It doesn't sound dangerous but it's usually recommended to treat the cause of a problem instead of the symptoms.

 

[Derf Summerfreeze]

Well, a stove pipe damper does just that and means having to run two sets of controls depending on the conditions. The cause of the problem is not my high chimney as high chimneys are common and it's not like it can be shortened. The cause of the problem is a minor design error by PE that doesn't account for tall chimneys. We could argue this all day long, but that's my opinion. The stove is working great and I expect it will do so for many years to come. Derf

"It doesn't sound dangerous but it's usually recommended to treat the cause of a problem instead of the symptoms."

 

[begreen]

36 ft chimneys are not that common. They are enough of a problem that some stove docs specifically call out this issue with stacks over 30' tall. We see several issues here with them each year.
Canadian stove in general have a tendency to breathe easily. This makes them ideal for one story homes with shorter chimneys, but they can get touchy with flues over 25' tall. I agree that PE, Regency, Osburn, Drolet, etc. should acknowledge this issue. Some are starting to address this by including the recommendation for a key damper in their documentation. It would also be good for them to include the proper operating draft strength in the manual. Very few do this, BK being one.

 

[Derf Summerfreeze]

Begreen, notice you also have an Alderlea T6. What's your assessment of it? So far I am quite pleased with mine and now that it's running quietly even more so. Any issues to look for as the years progress? Tx, Derf

 

[begreen]

We have the original T6. It's going on season 15. We love it. So far it's cost less than $100 to maintain. The stove is predictable and burns over a wide range of outputs. I helped a neighbor install a 2020 T6 LE. This will be their third season with it. They tell me it has exceeded their expectations.

 

[Derf Summerfreeze]

Excellent! Thank-you. The T6 was the only 'cast iron' stove that would meet the confines of the area the stove needed to be placed in my kitchen. The clearances are just over an inch of the minimum requirements so it worked out really well. I looked at other stoves but kept coming back to this one. Not inexpensive, but spread out over the rest of my life it's not really that expensive. Our old Regency is still in good shape after 30 years of usage, so it should find a new home elsewhere. It was also inexpensive to operate but I really expect we will be using less wood for more heat with the T6. Derf

 

[Derf Summerfreeze]

Excellent! Thank-you. The T6 was the only 'cast iron' stove that would meet the confines of the area the stove needed to be placed in my kitchen. The clearances are just over an inch of the minimum requirements so it worked out really well. I looked at other stoves but kept coming back to this one. Not inexpensive, but spread out over the rest of my life it's not really that expensive. Our old Regency is still in good shape after 30 years of usage, so it should find a new home elsewhere. It was also inexpensive to operate but I really expect we will be using less wood for more heat with the T6. Derf

Regarding the EBT2's effectiveness, I must say that after a week of using the stove, I am absolutely convinced that it does the job of extending the burn time and keeps the stove hotter, longer on the equivalent amount of wood I used in my smaller, medium sized Regency. Instead of cleaning out a full bucket of ashes every two days with lumps of unburnt charcoal, I finally cleaned out the stove after 7 days of constant use and still only a single bucket of ash. Far more efficient and the stove is still plenty hot in the morning and I do not make a habit of loading the stove prior to bedtime. I generally just let it burn down and there are always hot coals to get the next fire going even when burning mostly eastern white ash. Ash is poor at retaining coals, usually what's left is just ash. Hence the name?? Happy customer. Thank-you PE and Welbeck Sawmill who sold me the stove in 2022 and stored it for me until I was ready for the installation this year(2023). Derf