PE Pacific Insert Not Bullet-Proof

[Hogwildz]

Called my dealer and she was very helpful. She said she had never heard of that before and mine was the first she had heard of.
She said she would call her contact at PE and get back with me. She called me back in like 5 min. said her contact knew all about it even told her where the cracks should be.
Told me they have a machinewelding shop as part of their business. I was told to bring it in and they will fix it.
I am not real happy with the prospect of wrestling that beast out then back in to the house, but I did not have them install it or deliver it when I bought it.

Anyway I hit the wrong reply button so I will add pictures in a post under this one

Edited to add:
I was told it was due to the welding of the air wash and causing a pressure point and it will not crack further (I will keep an eye on this and make sure but I do not see light from the cracks when a fire is going). I was told I could use it this season and bring it in at the end of the heating season and they will send it off or I could bring it in anytime and they would weld it. She told me her contact at PE said it is safe and fine to run in its current condition. She did try to tell me that it only happens when they are put under HIGH heat, but that did not matter.

Dan, if you purchased it within the past 5 years, THEY ARE TO COME UNINSTALL AND HAUL IT OUT TO GET WELDED & REINSTALL , which Sisu & I have already been told, DEALER IS TO COME GET IT AND PUT IT BACK UNDER WARRANTY!. Tell the dealer to get it together, or you can call Cory at PE also, he has been helpful.
I opted to have a mobile unit come and do the repairs while my insert stays in place. Dealer was actually glad to go that route to save on labor for removal, transport & reinstall, which he would have to eat up front & get reimbursed by PE. AN option you may want to consider and relay to your dealer.

 

[Hogwildz]

Everyone's concern is appreciated. One thing not needed, is people trying to fuel the fire.
Especially if you DONT own a PE. Egging the others on does no good.
As far as I know the issue has just come into light in the last month or so. No company goes on a nationwide recall with only 1 month of issues, without confirming its widespread, and also determining the cause & fix for the issue.
Many car , electronic, appliance manufacturers don't even recall a know defective product. Most recalls are do to either the government mandating it, or the government putting enough other pressure on a company to motivate the company that it is in that company's best interest. Everyone calm down, take some breaths, and if you own a PE with these issues let it be know in this thread, contact your dealer and make the necessary claim & arrangements. So far Sisu and myself have done just that, and BOTH of us were informed the dealer was to pick it up and take for repairs, unless like in my case, I opted for in place repairs.
Honestly, not trying to stir anything, but non owners and other not having the problem, feel free to watch & give input, but lets try and stay positive, and not fuel unnecessary fires. Spouting off about them doing this, and them doing that, at my leisure etc, is not needed, especially when the dealer is supposed to pick it up in the first place. After the 5 years, not sure, PE seems very reasonable, and may or may not even honor older models. Still seems to me it was stoves made in a certain time frame. At this point, I want my insert fixed, maybe get a new baffle for the hassle, and a can of paint to paint the face when repairs complete. If further cracks develop, then I will then pursue further, prolly for a new firebox. We need calm ppl, and strength in numbers at this point. A henfest of whining & moaning is not going to help. Nor is other folks fanning the flames.

 

[Hogwildz]

Called my dealer and she was very helpful. She said she had never heard of that before and mine was the first she had heard of.
She said she would call her contact at PE and get back with me. She called me back in like 5 min. said her contact knew all about it even told her where the cracks should be.
Told me they have a machinewelding shop as part of their business. I was told to bring it in and they will fix it.
I am not real happy with the prospect of wrestling that beast out then back in to the house, but I did not have them install it or deliver it when I bought it.

Anyway I hit the wrong reply button so I will add pictures in a post under this one

This is crazy that we now have 5 different people with this type of issue... Every dealer says the same thing: "they've never seen it before". However, as stated in a previous post that could easily be simply that "most" stove owners don't inspect their stoves in that much detail. Don't you have to stick your head into the firebox and look back towards the front to even see most of these cracks? Not many people are out there sticking their heads into a sooty firebox to look for something they don't expect to find (or need to look for) in the first place.

Did she talk to Cory? Considering they told your dealer rep that they were aware of the problem she should realize that it's not an isolated event and as a responsible dealer she should be contacting all their PE owners to have them check their stoves for similar problems. In all actuality this seems more and more like something that PE should address in some sort of a recall. Expensive for them? Definitely, but also the right thing to do if a trend is being established. I can tell you one thing for sure: If a "known crack issue" (this thread is a good start for evidence) caused excessive stove temperatures and led to a house fire that PE would be in for a huge lawsuit. Add a death and were talking multiple millions (not to mention all the bad press causing loss of customers. To me, this seems like PE needs to stop addressing this problem reactively and get proactive...

I also still don't like them saying you need to take the stove in. It's something that you (the customer) did nothing to cause and they should be responsible for making it right. It's not like were talking about a car that can be driven in for warranty work and guess what, if a car couldn't be driven safely due to a defect that made it unsafe to drive to manufacturer/dealer would be paying to tow it from your house.

That PE Super I was looking at is looking less appealing. I wish PE would say it's something they identified and fixed. Even if it actually is the case (that they've fixed an identified issue) it would be expensive to actually "admit it" and have to deal with the tidal wave of warranty issues that would follow for all those previous stoves. I still think it would be a lot cheaper (dollar & reputation wise) than the fire scenario I described though.

Edited: Just read meathead's post (must have posted while I was writing mine). It's probably evident from my post that I completely agree and would tell the dealer & PE to come get it "at my convenience". Also, it's getting a little cold out so they should provide you with a stove to use while yours is getting fixed!

I can tell you that after spending over $2500 for this stove if cracks appear I will not accept it being simply welded. I will be more than happy to bring it back to the dealer in exchange for another stove in a crate. It is crazy that they are having independent welding shops fix this from a liability and SAFETY standpoint. I can say that I have recommended this stove to everyone who has asked me about it but I can say that after reading about how PE has handled this I will not be so quick to tell everyone to run out and buy one....

Well there are always those that have to have something new regardless of the fix or repair ( not knocking you, just acknowledging some folks will not accept anything but new). The stoves are welded together at the start, not magically assembled. It is no less safe or liable for a certified welder to make the necessary repairs. Most car companies don't even replace a car for defects, unless they cannot be corrected, that is where the lemon law comes to play. Keep an eye on your stove is all I can suggest at this time. How PE has handled it so far is ok in my book. Not once did I have over fire thrown in my face. How many other manufacturers will use that excuse right from the git go? Of course at this point, its not an isolated incidence, but PE has responded well long before the additional problem stoves surfaced. Give the company a chance to make right, before condemning them.

 

[Zzyk]

As a PE Summit owner I'd like to say thanks for keeping this thread alive and kicking. I was about 3 days away from buying two more PE stoves and have now put that on hold (tempoorarily I hope).

I checked my Summit and did not see any problems. It was still warm so it wasn't that thorough of a check.. I'll inspect it better when its cold.

Side note- mine was manufactured in November 2008. Would be interested to know if there was a specific timeframe for the problems-
That and good warranty service would make me more comfortable about buying more PE products.

 

[Dix]

Called my dealer and she was very helpful. She said she had never heard of that before and mine was the first she had heard of.
She said she would call her contact at PE and get back with me. She called me back in like 5 min. said her contact knew all about it even told her where the cracks should be.
Told me they have a machinewelding shop as part of their business. I was told to bring it in and they will fix it.
I am not real happy with the prospect of wrestling that beast out then back in to the house, but I did not have them install it or deliver it when I bought it.

Anyway I hit the wrong reply button so I will add pictures in a post under this one

This is crazy that we now have 5 different people with this type of issue... Every dealer says the same thing: "they've never seen it before". However, as stated in a previous post that could easily be simply that "most" stove owners don't inspect their stoves in that much detail. Don't you have to stick your head into the firebox and look back towards the front to even see most of these cracks? Not many people are out there sticking their heads into a sooty firebox to look for something they don't expect to find (or need to look for) in the first place.

Did she talk to Cory? Considering they told your dealer rep that they were aware of the problem she should realize that it's not an isolated event and as a responsible dealer she should be contacting all their PE owners to have them check their stoves for similar problems. In all actuality this seems more and more like something that PE should address in some sort of a recall. Expensive for them? Definitely, but also the right thing to do if a trend is being established. I can tell you one thing for sure: If a "known crack issue" (this thread is a good start for evidence) caused excessive stove temperatures and led to a house fire that PE would be in for a huge lawsuit. Add a death and were talking multiple millions (not to mention all the bad press causing loss of customers. To me, this seems like PE needs to stop addressing this problem reactively and get proactive...

I also still don't like them saying you need to take the stove in. It's something that you (the customer) did nothing to cause and they should be responsible for making it right. It's not like were talking about a car that can be driven in for warranty work and guess what, if a car couldn't be driven safely due to a defect that made it unsafe to drive to manufacturer/dealer would be paying to tow it from your house.

That PE Super I was looking at is looking less appealing. I wish PE would say it's something they identified and fixed. Even if it actually is the case (that they've fixed an identified issue) it would be expensive to actually "admit it" and have to deal with the tidal wave of warranty issues that would follow for all those previous stoves. I still think it would be a lot cheaper (dollar & reputation wise) than the fire scenario I described though.

Edited: Just read meathead's post (must have posted while I was writing mine). It's probably evident from my post that I completely agree and would tell the dealer & PE to come get it "at my convenience". Also, it's getting a little cold out so they should provide you with a stove to use while yours is getting fixed!

I can tell you that after spending over $2500 for this stove if cracks appear I will not accept it being simply welded. I will be more than happy to bring it back to the dealer in exchange for another stove in a crate. It is crazy that they are having independent welding shops fix this from a liability and SAFETY standpoint. I can say that I have recommended this stove to everyone who has asked me about it but I can say that after reading about how PE has handled this I will not be so quick to tell everyone to run out and buy one....

Well there are always those that have to have something new regardless of the fix or repair ( not knocking you, just acknowledging some folks will not accept anything but new). The stoves are welded together at the start, not magically assembled. It is no less safe or liable for a certified welder to make the necessary repairs. Most car companies don't even replace a car for defects, unless they cannot be corrected, that is where the lemon law comes to play. Keep an eye on your stove is all I can suggest at this time. How PE has handled it so far is ok in my book. Not once did I have over fire thrown in my face. How many other manufacturers will use that excuse right from the git go? Of course at this point, its not an isolated incidence, but PE has responded well long before the additional problem stoves surfaced. Give the company a chance to make right, before condemning them.

Hogz brings up a good point. Yelling and carrying on at the person at the other end of the phone isn't going to accomplish anything, but tick them off and make them have little desire to be of any help to you.

 

[53flyer]

Everyone's concern is appreciated. One thing not needed, is people trying to fuel the fire.
Especially if you DONT own a PE. Egging the others on does no good.
As far as I know the issue has just come into light in the last month or so. No company goes on a nationwide recall with only 1 month of issues, without confirming its widespread, and also determining the cause & fix for the issue.
Many car , electronic, appliance manufacturers don't even recall a know defective product. Most recalls are do to either the government mandating it, or the government putting enough other pressure on a company to motivate the company that it is in that company's best interest. Everyone calm down, take some breaths, and if you own a PE with these issues let it be know in this thread, contact your dealer and make the necessary claim & arrangements. So far Sisu and myself have done just that, and BOTH of us were informed the dealer was to pick it up and take for repairs, unless like in my case, I opted for in place repairs.

Honestly, not trying to stir anything, but non owners and other not having the problem, feel free to watch & give input, but lets try and stay positive, and not fuel unnecessary fires. Spouting off about them doing this, and them doing that, at my leisure etc, is not needed, especially when the dealer is supposed to pick it up in the first place. After the 5 years, not sure, PE seems very reasonable, and may or may not even honor older models. Still seems to me it was stoves made in a certain time frame. At this point, I want my insert fixed, maybe get a new baffle for the hassle, and a can of paint to paint the face when repairs complete. If further cracks develop, then I will then pursue further, prolly for a new firebox. We need calm ppl, and strength in numbers at this point. A henfest of whining & moaning is not going to help. Nor is other folks fanning the flames.

Hog- I'm honestly not attempting to stir things up either. Rather, I'm simply trying to offer up factual sidebars as appropriate. Even though I don't currently own a PE I do feel a direct concern because I was a day away from buying a PE Super until I discovered this thread and I want to know if I dodged a bullet or if this "potential" problem has been corrected. I'm still looking for an insert and have expanded my search to 3 serious contenders but I've been doing a little feet dragging in hopes that the issues of you and Sisu would be resolved. Since then, the list has grown to 5 and I'm even more concerned as to how this is playing out. I had been considering a used stove as well so knowing if there's a timeframe to be concerned with would be very helpful. I told a good friend with a PE to check his stove as well. I wish this whole thing had started 3 months ago so I could make an informed decision based on the results of all 5 (or more) of your warranty claims.

As far as a nationwide recall it's true that most (not all) don't go nationwide as soon as they should but many of those foot draggers also end up paying the price for that decision later when it's identified that the manufacturer knew of a defect but didn't take appropriate "proactive" steps. I didn't say PE needed to do a nationwide recall yet but I stand by the fact that at this point they definitely should be looking into the situation from more than a "wait for the next call" approach. They very well may be doing such an investigation already and if so that would be a good sign.

As far as the "1 month of issues" you referred to: this means nothing unless put into context. The context we have is at least 5 problems "among a very small statistical sample size" and 60-80% of them would most likely never have been found (or reported) but for this thread. That means if Sisu hadn't started this thread PE would only have ONE reported issue in the last month from this small sample of owners. The complexity of this issue is that it's a) based on a small sample size and b) a problem that 90% of the public would most likely "never look for". Those factors must sway the way this type of issue is treated. The 5yr reference becomes irrelevant if a safety issue is identified and they'd be liable for fixing those stoves as well. I'd have to look again but I thought the spread was about 2yrs so far for manufacture dates. Yes, I agree that it's not wise to "fuel a fire" but it's equally unwise to let it spread to the rest of the block/city. These things are generally resolved in a better way when more people pay attention. Before deeming something as simply "egging others on" those thoughts/ideas need to be examined to determine if they actually have some merit.

I'm sorry if I seem overly concerned. Perhaps it's my safety background in military aviation that heightens my awareness to these issues. I've helped write reports on accidents and completed the Naval Postgraduate Schools safety course so while I'm certainly not claiming to be an "expert", I "am" fairly knowledgeable irt safety concerns and the appropriate responses. Regardless of the actual item involved (plane, stove, car, crane, etc.) appropriate standards of response are called for. Sometimes it's hard to turn off many yrs of training but then again, sometimes it shouldn't be turned off either.

Again, I'm not interested in fueling fires and I remain hopefully optimistic for a great result all around.

 

[53flyer]

Hogz brings up a good point. Yelling and carrying on at the person at the other end of the phone isn't going to accomplish anything, but tick them off and make them have little desire to be of any help to you.

I agree 100%. You should never bring up liability issues or other seemingly confrontational topics while still in the process of resolution. Those things should only be brought up "after" all available channels of recourse have been exhausted and an appropriate response has still not occurred.

 

[Hogwildz]

No offense taken Flyer. I was not pointing a finger, just was a general statement. Positive or productive input hurts no one, ans is always appreciated.
I just emailed Cory at PE again, with another copy of my photos & the QC card, my concerns, etc. I will see what his response it.

 

[BrotherBart]

Take a look back through the Forum 53flyer. The stoves that were cracking last season were Quads. And the fix isn't pretty.

 

[begreen]

Good reminders for all. So far this is only showing up with Summit stoves. It is not showing up on the rest of the PE line of stoves.

 

[Hogwildz]

Good reminders for all. So far this is only showing up with Summit stoves. It is not showing up on the rest of the PE line of stoves.

BG, Sisu's initial post to start this thread states his is a Pacific, so it does extend to at least one other model.

 

[Dix]

BG, Sisu has a Pacific.

What has Italy done to you????????? %-P

 

[begreen]

D'oh! :red: Crap, sorry. Well, apparently I drink wine more frequently since going abroad.

 

[minesmoria]

I have the summit classic model and bought it back in late august 2006 and have the same crack as the original poster doe's dont know if i am going to call pe as i am moving in the next two months or so. Also this is the main heat source as the gas meter is off!

 

[begreen]

Call em. The scope of the problem needs to be defined.

 

[Hogwildz]

Agreed, call PE, claim the problem, if anything to show this is not an isolated incident.

 

[Gil655]

I am a bit disapointed after reading this thread, i was leaning toward a PE insert for a remodel im doing. But now im not so sure. But i still have a question that needs answered, maybe someone can shed some light.

I have a question for you Pacific and Summit owners. With your experience of how these 2 units heat. Which model in your opinion would be the best fit for a 2200 sf tri-level home, with the fireplace located in the lower family room area. looking to heat the whole house,, with gas furnace for backup. Double pain windows, well insulated attic.. I will be burning Aged spruce and Pine. I would be gone during the day so need atleast 8hr burn time. will the Pacific handle the job with out pushin it to hard or will the Summit be a better fit with out toasting me. I read on one forum that you should subtract 30% from the sq ft rating or the stove to estimate your needs.

What kind of burn times are u gettin with the Summit and Pacific?

Thanks for any input and i hope evrything works out for u guys.

 

[Hogwildz]

I am a bit disapointed after reading this thread, i was leaning toward a PE insert for a remodel im doing. But now im not so sure. But i still have a question that needs answered, maybe someone can shed some light.

I have a question for you Pacific and Summit owners. With your experience of how these 2 units heat. Which model in your opinion would be the best fit for a 2200 sf tri-level home, with the fireplace located in the lower family room area. looking to heat the whole house,, with gas furnace for backup. Double pain windows, well insulated attic.. I will be burning Aged spruce and Pine. I would be gone during the day so need atleast 8hr burn time. will the Pacific handle the job with out pushin it to hard or will the Summit be a better fit with out toasting me. I read on one forum that you should subtract 30% from the sq ft rating or the stove to estimate your needs.

What kind of burn times are u gettin with the Summit and Pacific?

Thanks for any input and i hope evrything works out for u guys.

Definitely the Summit. Even so, depending on the layout of the house, a tr-level may be tough to heat all areas.
Regardless of what you may read, a Larger stove can be used with smaller loads, hence less heat output.
As long as its burned reasonably hot enough, creosote is not an issue, and it will burn just as clean with 3 splits, as it will a full load.
The Summit give me a solid 8 hours of useable heat, the stove will continue to out out less heat over a couple more hours, but on a 20 degree or less night, 8 hours is easily obtainable. On warmer nights, longer times are achievable.
Much does depend on how well your home is insulated and retains the heat.

 

[53flyer]

I am a bit disapointed after reading this thread, i was leaning toward a PE insert for a remodel im doing. But now im not so sure. But i still have a question that needs answered, maybe someone can shed some light.

I have a question for you Pacific and Summit owners.

FYI, the Pacific is no more. PE's middle insert is now the "Super" but the other two remain the same (Smalll=Vista & large=Summit). So far 4 of the 5 were Summit stoves. The other one (the one this thread began with) was a Pacific.

 

[Bigg_Redd]

I am a bit disapointed after reading this thread, i was leaning toward a PE insert for a remodel im doing. But now im not so sure. But i still have a question that needs answered, maybe someone can shed some light.

I have a question for you Pacific and Summit owners. With your experience of how these 2 units heat. Which model in your opinion would be the best fit for a 2200 sf tri-level home, with the fireplace located in the lower family room area. looking to heat the whole house,, with gas furnace for backup. Double pain windows, well insulated attic.. I will be burning Aged spruce and Pine. I would be gone during the day so need atleast 8hr burn time. will the Pacific handle the job with out pushin it to hard or will the Summit be a better fit with out toasting me. I read on one forum that you should subtract 30% from the sq ft rating or the stove to estimate your needs.

What kind of burn times are u gettin with the Summit and Pacific?

Thanks for any input and i hope evrything works out for u guys.

Agreed. I'm always a little off-put whenever a company stands behind their products.

 

[Dirtgrain]

If I were to buy a PE Summit, what should I look for in inspecting the welds? All I know is that good welds are supposed to look like stacked nickels leaning in the same direction.

 

[crazy_dan]

Called my dealer and she was very helpful. She said she had never heard of that before and mine was the first she had heard of.
She said she would call her contact at PE and get back with me. She called me back in like 5 min. said her contact knew all about it even told her where the cracks should be.
Told me they have a machinewelding shop as part of their business. I was told to bring it in and they will fix it.
I am not real happy with the prospect of wrestling that beast out then back in to the house, but I did not have them install it or deliver it when I bought it.

Anyway I hit the wrong reply button so I will add pictures in a post under this one

Edited to add:
I was told it was due to the welding of the air wash and causing a pressure point and it will not crack further (I will keep an eye on this and make sure but I do not see light from the cracks when a fire is going). I was told I could use it this season and bring it in at the end of the heating season and they will send it off or I could bring it in anytime and they would weld it. She told me her contact at PE said it is safe and fine to run in its current condition. She did try to tell me that it only happens when they are put under HIGH heat, but that did not matter.

Dan, if you purchased it within the past 5 years, THEY ARE TO COME UNINSTALL AND HAUL IT OUT TO GET WELDED & REINSTALL , which Sisu & I have already been told, DEALER IS TO COME GET IT AND PUT IT BACK UNDER WARRANTY!. Tell the dealer to get it together, or you can call Cory at PE also, he has been helpful.
I opted to have a mobile unit come and do the repairs while my insert stays in place. Dealer was actually glad to go that route to save on labor for removal, transport & reinstall, which he would have to eat up front & get reimbursed by PE. AN option you may want to consider and relay to your dealer.

It really is not that big of a deal to me to be honest. If I take the stove out and put it back in. I have no stairs and can back the trailer right up close to the door and use ramps to bridge the gap and not have a steep incline to deal with. You can bet this will be the cleanest "used" stove they have ever seen as I will wire brush the inside vacuum and wash with soapy water and a toothbrush if needed to inspect every weld and square inch I can see. I will mark any areas of concern. both in writing and pictures if i can get a picture plus will mark it with welders chalk (soapstone).

 

[Csmith]

Just to pile on here, checked my summit insert (circa 2006) and it has exactly the same problem areas

 

[53flyer]

Just to pile on here, checked my summit insert (circa 2006) and it has exactly the same problem areas

Well, that's 6 reports now (5 Summit, 1 Pacific). So far I believe it appears to be from about 2006-2008 correct Hog/Sisu? Smitty, can you post pics for others to see and can you confirm if the stove was built "or bought" in 2006. Do you know the build date?

I am a bit disapointed after reading this thread, i was leaning toward a PE insert for a remodel im doing. But now im not so sure. Thanks for any input and i hope evrything works out for u guys.

Agreed. I'm always a little off-put whenever a company stands behind their products.

EDIT: I have no idea why the rest of this appears in "all bold". It doesn't look that way when written... I noticed that the person I quoted had some bold type in their post so maybe the encoding is carrying over? I was going to try deleting and reposting without hitting the quote button but I guess you can't delete your own posts. END OF EDIT.

So far we only know the results of 2 out of 5 (6 now) claims but they do seem to be so far which is good to see. If we assume all these reports are actually faulty welds, PE definitely needs to "at the very least" send out a notice to all dealers to be alert for these issues and it could easily be argued that all Summit and Pacific owners should be advised to inspect those locations for problems (with instructions as to how, where and what to look for). Again, proactive vs. reactive, this is getting to be too many to be considered a fluke occurrence. PE very well could be doing so at this very moment and that would be a truly good sign of a company standing behind their products AND looking out for their customers. So far so good as we just don't know what's going on behind the scenes but one can hope that appropriate actions are in the works.

IRT the interpretation of HighBurns post- Given the amazing number of reports seen on this thread over such a short period and among such a small sample size it seems perfectly appropriate for someone like HighBurn to have new reservations irt a new purchase don't you think? He may be thinking "would I rather buy something with what sounds like a great warranty but one that I'll also probably need to rely on (along with going through the whole time & inconvenience issue) OR something with an ok warranty that has a history of not being needed? I don't see why someone's concerns need to be belittled.


crazy_dan- I think it's great if you "want to" take the time & effort to take it in/out yourself and deliver/pick it up. Some people would prefer to do it themselves simply to ensure it was done "with care" and nothing got messed up during the process. You'll surely be on the dealer's good side by helping them out so much. It's definitely your prerogative and unless the dealer tries to "expect" the next customer to do the same it won't have any negative effects.

 

[madison]

Moderators/Admins: Is it or would it be appropriate to change this thread to a "Poll" so that the number and type of stoves with and without issues could be better understood? Or would a new thread be necessary?