PEX at 200F

[emesine]

To make a batch of 20 gallons of beer, I need about 30 gallons of water at 173F. I am plumbing the hot water coil in my wood gun boiler through a mixing valve capable of putting out up to 180F. I am confident the mixing valve will work just fine. The problem is, I did all the plumbing in 3/4 pex tubing.

On the hot side of my mixing valve I willl likely have water in my 3/4 pex at 190F, possibly closer to 200F. What does PEX tubing do at 200F and house pressure (about 50 PSI)?

My back-up idea is to run the system at very low pressure (about 3-6 PSI), I figure if the PEX is rated to 180F, it might survive 200F if I keep the pressure low.

Free homebrew to anyone that can help.

Andrew

 

[patch53]

At low pressure I think Pex can handle 200F OK, but at 50 PSI you're probably getting close to the edge. I'm sure others will chime in.

 

[heaterman]

Working pressure........not burst pressure...........for pex is 180* @100PSI and 200* @ 80PSI..

You should have no problems at the temp and pressure you stated. Pex is incredibly tough stuff considering it's just "plastic pipe".

 

[mole]

To make a batch of 20 gallons of beer, I need about 30 gallons of water at 173F. I am plumbing the hot water coil in my wood gun boiler through a mixing valve capable of putting out up to 180F. I am confident the mixing valve will work just fine. The problem is, I did all the plumbing in 3/4 pex tubing.

On the hot side of my mixing valve I willl likely have water in my 3/4 pex at 190F, possibly closer to 200F. What does PEX tubing do at 200F and house pressure (about 50 PSI)?

My back-up idea is to run the system at very low pressure (about 3-6 PSI), I figure if the PEX is rated to 180F, it might survive 200F if I keep the pressure low.

Free homebrew to anyone that can help.

Andrew

Beer making... One more good reason to own a wood boiler...

 

[smokinj]

To make a batch of 20 gallons of beer, I need about 30 gallons of water at 173F. I am plumbing the hot water coil in my wood gun boiler through a mixing valve capable of putting out up to 180F. I am confident the mixing valve will work just fine. The problem is, I did all the plumbing in 3/4 pex tubing.

On the hot side of my mixing valve I willl likely have water in my 3/4 pex at 190F, possibly closer to 200F. What does PEX tubing do at 200F and house pressure (about 50 PSI)?

My back-up idea is to run the system at very low pressure (about 3-6 PSI), I figure if the PEX is rated to 180F, it might survive 200F if I keep the pressure low.

Free homebrew to anyone that can help.

Andrew

Beer making... One more good reason to own a wood boiler...

huh?

 

[emesine]

Beer making requires a large amount of hot water (around 173F) to mash the grains and sparge the wort. It is time consuming (as well as natural gas consuming!) to heat all this water (30 gallons in my case) in a huge pot. I am using the domestic hot water coil on my boiler to give me a tap in my basement that puts out 173F water. This will save me a lot of time and labor, not to mention an expensive pot. So, yes, you can use your wood boiler to make beer!

Thanks so much for the input on PEX. It looks like it is going to work just fine at 50 PSI and 200F.

Andrew

 

[benjamin]

You won't have any problem with the pex itself, you're no where near the bursting pressure-temp. The first place it leaks is the joints. No big deal, just redo them, or cheat and crimp them a little smaller. Pretty unlikely though.

 

[heaterman]

I would recommend that you pay close attention to the fittings themselves to be sure they are food grade stainless or bronze. I don't think I would use standard brass pex fittings, most of which come from China and who the heck knows what could be in them.

 

[Der Fuirmeister]

I would love to see a sketch / photos of your set up. I'm in the process of installing a wood gun and it would easier to design the piping now than redo later....

 

[emesine]

Der Fiur Meister,

What is your system? Are you doing in-floor radiant? Are you using radiators? hooking into an existing forced air system? Are you planning on storage?

I have designed and am almost finished with my system, which is designed for in-floor radiant only and contains a large unpressurized storage tank. I have not yet lit my first fire, so I can't really tell you that it works.

The boiler is fully plumbed, and looks good, however, if that is the sort of thing you are looking for. I would be happy to attach some pics in the next few days.

Good luck!

Andrew

 

[emesine]

Attached is the schematic for what I built, for what it's worth. It will take a few minutes to realize what is going on, it only took me 3 months to come up with this. A few notes:

1. It is built such that you can build the entire system without storage and it runs great, then storage can be added later without cutting into the original system. I am currently building just the main system with the heat exchanger. Storage will be on line sometime next year.

2. Control is with a TACO SR506, a delta T temperature sensor, and one specially designed relay box. Running without storage all you need is the TACO SR506.

3. The system is really designed to fire once every few days and run off the storage tank most of the time. I'm very busy, I really can't make a fire 3x a day.

4. If the storage tank is hot and I have a very high heating load, both the storage tank and the boiler will supply heat to the system. With my E200, that means I actually have 500+ BTU available if my storage is hot.

5. The i series mixing valve does boiler protection.

I am hoping to do my first fire in the next few weeks.

Andrew

 

[Der Fuirmeister]

Sorry Emesine. I should have made my post clearer. I was interested in seeing how you were heating the kettle to make beer. I have an E140 and will connect to a storage tank with a HX> From there the plan is to run a air / water coil in the forced air furnace and also heat our DHW.

From what you were saying the beer takes 173* water. Did you wrap a kettle with pex or??? Did you have a special kettle made up?

 

[emesine]

That's a little easier.....

I am using a Honeywell AM series mixing valve designed for "heating only." The mixing valve has a range of 80-180F. The cold port is connected into my hot water heater (130F).

Our woodgun has the optional hot water coil. This is a copper coil in the boiler itself. The hot port on the mixing valve will receive water that has been sent through this coil. I think if I run my boiler hot enough I will get hot enough water on the hot side (hopefully 180-190F) that I can get the valve to output 173F water.

Making beer involves a mash and a boil. I will mix the crushed barley with this 173F to form the mash. I will then runoff the sweet wort into my boil kettle using more 173F water.

For the boil itself I will still have to use propane to heat this sweet wort from 173 to boiling- I haven't figured a way around that one. But, I will only have to use enough propane for the boil itself. If you have ever made large amounts of beer using all grain, you will know that at least half the work is heating the mash and sparge (rinse) water to 173F. It takes HOURS, a huge pot, and lots of work.

By using my boiler to make mash and sparge water I will cut out about half the work of making beer, and I will save probably 3/4 of the propane I normally use.

That's the DuBois brewery. Of course I could always set up a wood gas generator and run my propane stove with that......

Andrew

 

[Der Fuirmeister]

OK, that explains how you get potable water at 173*. I did not get the DHW coil, but if I could offset the cost with the savings in beer.........

I'll have to read up on it.

Thanks

 

[in hot water]

Support the pex well. At those high temperatures it handles like a wet noodle. It can pull on fittings when it starts to sag, also. The PEXalPEX is a great product for elevated temperatures.

hr

 

[emesine]

Had I been thinking I would have spent the extra $$$ and plumbed in copper. I suspect I will get some interesting results when I get the pipe up to temperature. I'll see what happens.

Cost wise I don't know if it is cheaper to do things this way, or to just do a standard hot liquor tank (brewers' term for the pot that holds the sparge and mash water). A hot liquor tank has to be big about 15 gallons in my case. It also really needs its own dedicated burner, and it needs to be high enough off the ground to gravity feed into a pot. I would guess it is about equal money wise.... but my system takes up zero room in my basement. A 15 gallon pot, burner, and stand would take up an entire closet. I just hope the 190F water doesn't ruin my PEX.

At this point I can do very high quality beer at around $6 to $8 per gallon, that includes my investment in boil pot, burner, plate wort chiller, co2 tank, and kegs. It's like anything else- once you have the right tools and know what you're doing, it is easy.

Andrew