Protected / Shielded Alcove Examples

[overlandsea]

Hello I'm interested in converting my ZC heat-loser into an alcove with a freestander. It has tight clearances so I'd probably have to use a smaller stove and build NFPA 211 protection on sides and ceiling. I'm leaning towards Jotul F3, as they explicitly state NFPA 211 protected clearances for alcove installation.

I've spent hours searching the forum and internet, and I'm having a really hard time finding pictures, examples, builds, etc of an alcove that has protection for sides and ceiling (especially not finding much on ceilings). Can anyone point me in the right direction? I think I have a fair understanding of the technical side (1" air gap top, bottom, behind), but I'm trying to figure out if there is a way to make this look good. I love some of the stunning alcove examples I've found on this site. I'm just trying to figure out if a protected alcove can look awesome too. Thanks!

 

[bholler]

Hello I'm interested in converting my ZC heat-loser into an alcove with a freestander. It has tight clearances so I'd probably have to use a smaller stove and build NFPA 211 protection on sides and ceiling. I'm leaning towards Jotul F3, as they explicitly state NFPA 211 protected clearances for alcove installation.

I've spent hours searching the forum and internet, and I'm having a really hard time finding pictures, examples, builds, etc of an alcove that has protection for sides and ceiling (especially not finding much on ceilings). Can anyone point me in the right direction? I think I have a fair understanding of the technical side (1" air gap top, bottom, behind), but I'm trying to figure out if there is a way to make this look good. I love some of the stunning alcove examples I've found on this site. I'm just trying to figure out if a protected alcove can look awesome too. Thanks!

You can make the shields out of any non-combustible materials. We have done allot out of veneer stone over cement board. But you can use tile or decorative sheet metal as well.

 

[overlandsea]

Thanks for the help. Yeah I was thinking veneer stone over cement board for the sides and back. I can definitely see how that would look good.

My main concern is that if you are looking straight on at the fireplace, the air gaps around the perimeter will look strange (not worried about the ones at the top and bottom). I've read that you can face the air gap on the sides with tile or veneer stone since the vertical movement of the air is the part that really matters. However, my understanding is that you can't cover the ceiling air gap (which makes sense since that's where air escapes). How do you not make the ceiling air gap look strange? Does anyone have a link to pictures of one done well?

 

[bholler]

Thanks for the help. Yeah I was thinking veneer stone over cement board for the sides and back. I can definitely see how that would look good.

My main concern is that if you are looking straight on at the fireplace, the air gaps will look strange. I've read that you can face the air gap on the sides with tile or veneer stone since the vertical movement of the air is the part that really matters. However, my understanding is that you can't cover the ceiling air gap (which makes sense since that's where air escapes). How do you not make the ceiling air gap look strange? Does anyone have a link to pictures of one done well?

Yes you need to leave the gap top and bottom. It really isn't that noticable

 

[begreen]

Use the search function (magnifying glass in upper right) and search on Alcove in titles only, in this forum.
Note that some will not have protected walls. Instead they built the alcove with metal studs to eliminate combustibles. It depends on the stove requirements. Here are a couple of examples, there are many more.

Alcove ideas

Please post up some alcove pics. I think it the route Im gonna go. Thanks

www.hearth.com

Close Clearance Alcove

So I just opened up the wall of my old ZC fireplace as I am planning on turning the chase into an alcove for the new wood stove. I am pretty sure I am going with a lopi endeavor due to the close clearance ability. When i tore open the wall i have a span of 54" between the studs where 50" is...

www.hearth.com

 

[overlandsea]

Yes you need to leave the gap top and bottom. It really isn't that noticable

Thanks, yeah I'm not too worried about the aesthetics of the air gap at the top and bottom for the sides. I guess I'm more worried about the look of the air gap when you look at the facing. Like in the picture below (I'm pretty sure this wasn't built with protection, but it's a nice example of an alcove), imagine it was built with protection. Everywhere where there's white molding, there would be an air gap. Doesn't that look strange when you're looking straight on?

 

[begreen]

If it is a protected wall the gap must be at the top and bottom so that air can freely convect behind it. The sides don't matter. If the wall behind the shield are painted black then the gap barely shows unless the shield is white.

 

[overlandsea]

Use the search function (magnifying glass in upper right) and search on Alcove in titles only, in this forum.
Note that some will not have protected walls. Instead they built the alcove with metal studs to eliminate combustibles. It depends on the stove requirements.

Thanks, yes I actually did that already, and I think I've read every alcove thread (not joking about the hours spent researching part). I can't seem to find any examples of ceiling protection in an alcove. I would have thought it's fairly common, but I just can't find anything. Unfortunately, reframing with metal isn't possible as it's close to other interior walls.

 

[overlandsea]

If it is a protected wall the gap must be at the top and bottom so that air can freely convect behind it. The sides don't matter. If the wall behind the shield are painted black then the gap barely shows unless the shield is white.

Makes sense. What about the ceiling protection? Can I close off the air gap in the front? Or at least put some noncombustible trim in front of it with a gap so that you can't see it?

 

[begreen]

It may need to be open or have a grille of some sort. This would depend on what is being designed and how much of a height reduction and the stove requirements. The alcove design is often custom to the stove requirements. Search through the threads in this forum. There are many different solutions depending on the stove, the space and design of the alcove.

 

[overlandsea]

Yeah I could see a thin decorative grill looking nice. Thanks for the idea. Does anyone have pictures of such or any other fully protected (back, sides, and ceiling) alcoves?

 

[overlandsea]

So after more research, it seems that the solution is just to find a better stove. Hearthstone seems to be a great choice for those looking for alcove installations in the future. They allow NFPA 211 clearance reductions for many stoves and have pretty low unprotected heights, so I think that's the better choice.

 

[begreen]

Strongly radiant stoves are harder to make work into an alcove. Shielded, cast-iron jacketed and some soapstone designs can sometimes work better. We've had all sorts of ideas posted here including one with a dropped ceiling made of metal studs and cement board and a decorative grille on top front. Some Blaze Kings work out well for alcoves too.

How large an area will the stove be heating? What are the alcove dimensions you are trying to work with? Post a sketch and a picture of the location if you have them.

 

[overlandsea]

That makes sense since Hearthstone seems to be big on using soapstone. Looks like I would not need to use ceiling protection with one of the Hearthstone options, just side and back protection.

Thanks for offering to look over my idea.

• Stove is on the upper level of a 2 story 3200 sq ft house (daylight rambler, so this is the main level). I know it won't do anything for the basement, and that's fine. So the upper level is 1600 sq ft. The alcove would basically be in the middle of the house, pointing out to open concept living, dining, kitchen. Realistically, I don't expect a ton of heat to make it down the hall to the bedrooms on the other side of the house, so the great room is about 800 sq ft. In addition, I don't expect to use as an every day heater. We have a heatpump in the great room that's super cheap to run and use electric zone for the rest. However, I really want a backup heat source for power outages, and also won't to update the look of the current fireplace. So all that to say, I don't necessarily need a huge heater.
• I'll try to post pictures: This is what I have now. I hired a fireplace store to replace this with a EPA ZC wood fireplace, but when they opened it up, it didn't fit. Very disappointing as this is now what my living room looks like. The owner did a site visit and measured, but they still screwed it up. It was already their smallest fireplace.
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• Here's a sketch of what I'd like to do, except I would make the posts a continuation of the veneer stone from the alcove and wrap with stone all the way around. The top shelf would still be a wood beam. Also, I show a top grill from when I thought I'd need ceiling protection. That would be gone. The top beam would be flush with the ceiling of the alcove.
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• Here's a top view scaled diagram of my idea so far. The stove is a Hearthstone Shelborne. The area in pink shows the current walls. The top and left hand edges of the pink triangle are uncovered studs/insulation. The hypotenuse of the pink triangle is the front of the fireplace wall. The gray box is the 39" wide alcove as stated in the manual. It would have NFPA 211 protection back and sides (but not ceiling-ceiling is allowed at 65" without protection which seems fine). Since the stove would stick out into the room about 5.5", the posts would be 6" square and would be a continuation of the veneer stone from the sides. The inside side of the posts would continue the wall protection
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• Let me know what you think. I'm a 100% do things by the book kind of person. I feel like I have to be more careful after getting burned on the ZC fireplace, so I'm trying to see if this is a plausible idea. It's a weird space, especially since the wall isn't at 45 degrees. Makes it very difficult to fit anything back there.

 

[begreen]

That is a drag. It looks like the current ZC is a corner install. The simplest thing to do would be to install a freestanding stove as a corner install, not an alcove. Just drop the front enclosure portion. What is being proposed is much more complicated and expensive. The Shelburne is nice, but like the F3CB it is a strongly radiant stove. That makes installation more complicated for the alcove, but relatively easy for a corner install.

 

[overlandsea]

I agree that a freestanding corner install would be simpler, but it would be a decent amount of construction to take out the false wall, finish the corner, finish the ceiling. Once you did all that, yes the stove install would be way easy at that point, but it's still a decent amount of work to get to that point.

Also, I think alcoves look pretty awesome (more so than just putting a freestanding in the corner), and like the visual of the wall above the mantel shelf where you can put art, etc.

Is there a reason why my plan above wouldn't work? I realize it might cost more, but aesthetics is a fairly large part of the decision process. Not necessarily looking for the simplest/cheapest, and I'll probably do all the construction/finish work myself, but leave the stove/chimney to the pros.

 

[begreen]

I meant just leave the false wall in. Put in a hearth and be done. Are you proposing eliminating the right side wall?

Your design may be possible but it introduces many clearance and ceiling height issues + the mantel clearance. That will narrow down the field of possibilities quickly. But don't let me slow down your creative quest. It may be possible with the right stove.

 

[overlandsea]

Okay yeah I see what you mean now. Yeah, it would extend into the room a bit more if we extended the current false wall, but maybe it wouldn't be so bad. I'll model it and see what my wife thinks. The big question, from a design standpoint, is why in the world is that false wall there if there's not fireplace set back in it. I just feel like people (including me) might think that everytime they look at it. I guess if I did a rear vent and had the chimney go all the way down through the false wall, at least you could put art and a mantel shelf and stuff on the wall.

As I think about it more, my previous paragraph assumes centering the stove on the false wall, and I think you meant to put it in the corner on the right hand-side as you look at the photo?

 

[begreen]

Yes, I was thinking just removing the fireplace and all the diagonal sheetrock facade now above the ZC fireplace to reveal a right angle corner. Fix the sheetrock, put in a ceiling support box for the new chimney, and with a new corner hearth, Bob's your uncle.

 

[overlandsea]

Ok, I did read your original idea correctly the first time. Yes, it would be simpler in a lot of ways, but it's still a lot of finish work. I also like my misinterpretation of you idea. Lots of good possibilities at least. Time to go over design ideas with my wife. We love this house and want to live here forever, so I'm willing to put in a little more time/work/money to make it what we want for the next 20 years. I feel like I have a better idea of what's possible now. Thanks for the input. I'm sure I'll have more questions as we go.

 

[begreen]

Would a plan C, seek out an efficient ZC that fits the space be an option? What are the dimensions of the current ZC?

 

[overlandsea]

Would a plan C, seek out an efficient ZC that fits the space be an option? What are the dimensions of the current ZC?

Yes, that was the original plan which went south. Unfortunately with it being an unusual angle, it is really difficult to fit an efficient ZC. Most are either too deep to actually fit or the angle pushes the unit so far to the right side that it doesn't maintain adequate side clearance. I think an Osborn Stratford II will fit, but I've checked literally every single smallish ZC and that's it. Theoretically it sounds like an easier option, but it would require lowering the hearth to the floor (to not have the mantel shelf extremely high) and replacing the floor to ceiling (or at lest floor to 80") facing with metal framing and cement board. It's at the point where I think it's worth seeing if there are other options available.

Plan D- replace current open ZC and chimney with a different ZC/chimey system rated to accept an insert (Majestic Sovereign 36 seems like the best choice) and then put in an efficient insert and class A liner rated for ZC fireplace installation. Seems like this would probably end up being the most expensive and complicated option though. It does solve the depth problem though since the inserts stick out on to the hearth. Obviously would need a hearth extension though.

 

[begreen]

Yes, many are 24" deep, though there are some shallower models like the Astria Ladera. If depth is the issue, the front could easily be framed out 4". What are the dimensions you are working with?

 

[overlandsea]

If you are facing the fireplace, the depth of the enclosure (pink triangle in diagram above) is 42" and the length of the back wall of the enclosure is 65". The problem that I see with framing out the front a few more inches is that the way I read all the manuals, you would have to do this to the ceiling height requirement (usually 80"). Otherwise the drywall above is a combustible material in what is supposed to be open space above the fireplace.

If I could do it in a shorter space, I could see it working. Bump the front wall out a few inches, finish with stone up to the beam mantel shelf that goes all the way across and then the wall above the beam is set back a few inches. However, 80" is way too high for the beam mantel IMHO. Perhaps you meant bump the whole wall floor to ceiling out a few inches. Also possible, but again a lot of finish work.

Seems like there's no easy options on this one. Thanks for all the insights and help!

 

[BKVP]

Just type into the search Blaze King Alcove. The results will pop up and blow your mind. Many have very detailed instruction and photos documenting the process.

BKVP