Quadrafire Voyageur Grand dirty glass all the time

[w103tws]

Hello, I recently purchased a Voyageur Grand insert and cannot keep the glass even remotely clean. The unit is installed in the center of the house with a 15' interior chimney, 6" SS liner that has good draft. I always get what looks like a large "butt print" on the glass. There is a clean line down through the middle and two 10" ovals on each side that have to be scraped with a razor daily to get clean. I am only burning 18% MC ash, and the readings are taken by re-splitting a split. When I start a fire, I have to keep the door cracked about and inch for at least 15 minutes, otherwise the box fills with smoke so bad that you can't see anything inside and It won't take off. Once the fire is going pretty well, I close the door and leave the primary air open all the way for about an hour until I get the flue to around 500, then I usually put a few larger splits on and close the air to half once the new splits are lit.

I notice that people claim you can get the stove hot enough to burn the crud off of the glass, but I have never been able to achieve that. With dirty glass, I can load the thing up with kindling and have a blazing hot fire and it has never taken off any of the crud. Sometimes I'll put the glove on and scrape it in the middle of the burn, just so I can enjoy the show, but after a few hours I can no longer see through the glass. I've only had around 10 fires in the stove so far. The outside air kit plate was removed from the side of the insert and the one on the front was in the bag, and not even installed from the factory. I have used the Rutlands conditioning cleaner and it works well, but it takes about half a bottle a week if I want clean glass every day. I've tried using ash and water, but that won't even take a little of the crud off. I've done the dollar bill test and found that all the way around the door is tight. I can pull the bill out, but it's on the verge of tearing before it comes out.

If I keep the splits very small and don't add anything larger than about 4", I can keep the glass cleaner, meaning the butt print is still there, it's just not as dark as it usually is.

My wife is very disappointed. She picked this insert out to be a showpiece in our home, but the only time she wants to show it off is when there isn't a fire going and you can actually see through the glass. Is this just what we should expect from QuadraFire? The dealer's response was, "you can't expect to have clean glass, all stoves with glass doors get dirty, I don't care what anyone says."

Can anyone offer any suggestions?
Thanks

 

[Benchwrench]

I would suspect a high degree of moisture content in the wood before I would blame the stove.

 

[w103tws]

Yeah, that would make the most sense, but unless the moisture meter lies, that can't be the case.

 

[Jags]

Something doesn't add up....

6" SS liner that has good draft.

I have to keep the door cracked about and inch for at least 15 minutes, otherwise the box fills with smoke so bad that you can't see anything inside and It won't take off.

I am only burning 18% MC ash,

for about an hour until I get the flue to around 500,

This can't all be true or you would be raving about how well and clean this stove is running. My first knee jerk reaction would be to suspect the fuel. 18% MC should burn fantastic, but it is not. Can you explain the life of your wood? When was it cut/split/stacked - pulled from the bottom of a lake or whatever?
When you say 500F - is that a surface temp or internal (probe) temp?

 

[w103tws]

I know, it's really weird.

The stove runs excellent! I can load it up around 9pm, put the air control about 1/4 from the bottom and have nice hot coals at 8am to get the next fire going. I have 2700 sq ft brick ranch built in 1985 and the insert can keep the main part of the house quite comfortable. I'm not concerned about it's ability to produce heat, because it does a nice job at that.

- the wood was css 1yr ago and was standing dead ash when I cut it down.
- temp is taken via IR thermometer pointing directly at the chimney collar with the fan not running
- I assume the draft is good because if I shut the door less than 1" it will suck it closed and when the door is open a little, the inside turns into a raging inferno.

** Is it possible that I'm throwing too big of splits in the fire? Once it's going good, I'll take the largest splits I can find and stuff as many as I can inside. they're usually half of a 8"-10" log

 

[Riegel]

I'm on my fifth season with the same stove and get the same results with the glass getting dirty. The hotter I burn it the cleaner it gets but the overnight burns when I shut the air down it gets dirty again. I have accepted that this stove will always have this issue. I clean the glass every other week. I use a wet paper towel and ash, the outer edge of the glass I have to use a utility blade. I burn well-seasoned hard wood, oak, ash, maple, cherry, locust makes no difference.

 

[begreen]

How close is the wood to the glass? Maybe try moving it back an inch? Also, is the glass uniformly darkening or just in certain areas? If just certain areas there may be door or glass gasket leakage.

 

[Fod01]

Chimney is fully lined? I ask because a friend had a partial liner and had severe issues until a full liner was installed. Also - what's your procedure for reducing the air? Perhaps that is happening too quickly.

 

[Riegel]

Check out a post from 2011. Same issues
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/new-quadrafire-voyageur-question.61259

 

[Fod01]

Nice one Riegel. Let's see where this goes.

 

[Riegel]

It's a nice stove and my wife picked it out for the same reason "showpiece" but if I moved and had to pick a new stove it wouldn't be this one a second time. Sorry...

 

[w103tws]

Thanks for all the responses.
I try to keep the logs 3-4" from the glass
The chimney is fully lined
It literally looks like someone with a big butt sat in black paint then pressed it up against the glass. I'll try to get pics tonight.

 

[Jags]

Check out the thread posted above. Looks like some good info...

 

[w103tws]

Ok, it's time for pics. All of the wood burned is 15%-20% ash that was checked before adding to the stove. Cleaned with rutland's conditioner before starting fire.

Here is startup with a few small splits and a handful of pine 2x4 kindling


Here is 20 min later with the door closed and primary and startup air fully open


Here is 40 min later after everything burned up and went to coal, so I reloaded with some larger stuff and snapped a pic


30 min later, primary air still all the way open



2hrs later after adding a few fresh splits. Primary air still all the way open

 

[realstihl]

Maybe the glass gasket is leaking? Have you checked that yet?

 

[w103tws]

No, I haven't. Tomorrow, I'll give each screw a little extra torque. thanks

 

[Nelson]

No, I haven't. Tomorrow, I'll give each screw a little extra torque. thanks

Have you removed the knock out if you're not using the OAK?

 

[revdocjim]

I don't know the particular configuration of your insert, but in general hot air is supposed to be blasting onto the inside of the glass from the top of the stove to keep it clean. Is it possible that something is blocking the hot air that is supposed to be hitting the glass?

 

[Fod01]

That glass looks a lot like mine when I first got the stove.

I think your top down is packed too tight. There is virtually no change after 20 mins. You want it to burn hot and fast to heat the pipe. Attached is my top down from this morning after 15 minutes. 6 pieces of oak, but they're criss-crossed.

Other thoughts:
Do you notice a difference in the flames when you adjust the primary air? Maybe there is an issue there. I've also heard of bad installs where the liner got pinched.

 

[w103tws]

Yes, both of the the OAK plates are sitting in the bag.

I looked inside above the door and didn't see any holes or anything that would push air to wash the glass. Are there supposed to be some?

 

[w103tws]

Ok, I'll try packing it a little looser. If I leave the door open a bit, it takes off very well but if not, it would probably never get started.

The primary air seems to be working fine. I really notice a difference in flames when I adjust it. If I put it all the way down, sometimes even a good hot fire will snuff itself out in about 20min

I looked down through the chimney and the liner is true and straight.

 

[Squisher]

If your wood is good I would think you've got a draft problem. In an earlier post you mention being able to turn your air down to 1/4 and get a decent burn time but in your last post with the pics you mention on the last one that your air has been wide open for over two hours and that turning it right down will 'snuff out' a hot fire.

I'm no expert and unfamiliar with your burner but on my stove if I left the air wide open for two hours I'd be seriously over firing things, and the glass for certain would be spotless and the least of the worries.

 

[DBoon]

** Is it possible that I'm throwing too big of splits in the fire? Once it's going good, I'll take the largest splits I can find and stuff as many as I can inside. they're usually half of a 8"-10" log

These are big splits - wood stoves burn differently than fireplaces, and it is possible that these big pieces are not really 18-20% m.c. after one year CSS (even cut "dead standing"). I don't trust most cheap moisture meters - it is possible that you don't have the m.c. that you think you do.

 

[Fod01]

Does the fire burn aggressively once a reload is established? None of those pics show any real flame - not with full air anyway. Is the baffle/blanket positioned properly?

 

[w103tws]

After a reload, going from hot coals, it takes prob 10 min of me cracking the door before a sustainable flame is going when I put larger splits on.

If I pull the primary all the way down the flames get really lazy and abt 20min later are pretty much gone. At 1/4 open it will burn with a flame.

None of the pics are during a flame stage they're all after a reload.
I'll get some different wood and try again.

I just don't understand why It won't burn the crud off by itself??