I'm buying some land in WV for a play place and building a 1000 sq ft cabin.It's going to be stick built with wood siding and totally open floor plan.It will be a weekend getaway.How would you insulate and which england,drolet stove would you go with.I'm trying to keep the stove,etc on the low end as we will just use it once in a while.We're trying to be completely off grid with a propane generator,etc..Any ideas on windows as the last pellas we bought weren't what I expected.Also,if anyone has any experience with the trex decking,how do you like it?
question for the people up north
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Casement windows with a dual lock. 2*6 walls foam if you can. R38 or higher in the ceiling. Wrap the outside with tyvek paper and you could add foam board on top of the sheathing. Seems like overkill but great for wind protection. Insulate the floor not just the box plate. Plan a carpeted area helps hold a little heat.
If you like englander and you say 1000sqft go with 13. It heats my 2000sqft ranch with ease.
Trex is nice stuff but as you've found expensive. Easy to work with, won't split or warp. I think it fades though.
Sounds like a fun project, enjoy
If you like englander and you say 1000sqft go with 13. It heats my 2000sqft ranch with ease.
Trex is nice stuff but as you've found expensive. Easy to work with, won't split or warp. I think it fades though.
Sounds like a fun project, enjoy
Trex is quite expensive, I think Veranda makes a similar product for a bit less. We did everything on our seasonal house with trex because I'm so sick of maintaining the wood decks here. No serious fading yet (5-6 years).
Opps I thought this was about the north. Even though it is in the south (by my standards) you may want to get your hands on a copy of the Canadian building Codes. Build according to that and you'll be good to go. Or build like they do up north YK and Alaska (there has been some recent articles here) and you will be able to light a match when you get there Friday and be warm till it's time to leave on Sunday. %-P
HehHeh . . . I'm with you 'Bert . . . I guess "up north" is all in one's perspective since I would consider that going south . . . I mean really heading south since around here going south for many folks is crossing the New Hampshire/Maine line to get some tax free liquor.
But now back to the thread . . .
Regardless of where you are I think insulating a place to a pretty high standard is well worth the time and money . . . in the winter it does get cold and at a certain point it really doesn't matter if it's 34 degrees or 14 degrees outside -- without adequate insulation you'll be losing a lot of heat . . . and in the hot summer you want to keep it cool inside.
Windows: My wife and I went with Marvin Integrity windows for our living room renovation . . . they were a bit pricey, but we really like them so far.
Stove: Go with what you like in the size you need . . . personally I like the Jotul line, but if I was going for a simpler look I think the Englanders would be a fine choice.
But now back to the thread . . .
Regardless of where you are I think insulating a place to a pretty high standard is well worth the time and money . . . in the winter it does get cold and at a certain point it really doesn't matter if it's 34 degrees or 14 degrees outside -- without adequate insulation you'll be losing a lot of heat . . . and in the hot summer you want to keep it cool inside.
Windows: My wife and I went with Marvin Integrity windows for our living room renovation . . . they were a bit pricey, but we really like them so far.
Stove: Go with what you like in the size you need . . . personally I like the Jotul line, but if I was going for a simpler look I think the Englanders would be a fine choice.
I live in Ottawa - it gets kinda chilly here sometimes...
We usually build with 2X6 and use fibreglass or Roxul in the walls. Definitely tyvek or equiv outside. As for Windows, for a sometimes cabin, I'd suggest some good dual pane vinyl casements - they've come light years with vinyl windows from years ago. We usually go for R50 in the attic with either fibreglass or cellulose or a combination of cellulose on top of fibreglass.
As for stove - sounds like a good mid-size will do you fine for open plan.
As for the trex decks - I've seen a couple built with it, but they were more commercial - bar/restaurants. Don't think I've ever seen one in a home. Around here it's almost always either PT or Cedar. The one big complaint I've heard is if you intend to use it on low decks it is a major pain to use the screw from below bracets if the deck is not high enough. I remember one guy telling me he built one and had to crawl under the entire length of a 2 ft high deck on his back to screw the brackets in. I like the look of a nice cedar deck with the screws all lined up anyways...
Are you going to do a concrete slab floor or wood?
We usually build with 2X6 and use fibreglass or Roxul in the walls. Definitely tyvek or equiv outside. As for Windows, for a sometimes cabin, I'd suggest some good dual pane vinyl casements - they've come light years with vinyl windows from years ago. We usually go for R50 in the attic with either fibreglass or cellulose or a combination of cellulose on top of fibreglass.
As for stove - sounds like a good mid-size will do you fine for open plan.
As for the trex decks - I've seen a couple built with it, but they were more commercial - bar/restaurants. Don't think I've ever seen one in a home. Around here it's almost always either PT or Cedar. The one big complaint I've heard is if you intend to use it on low decks it is a major pain to use the screw from below bracets if the deck is not high enough. I remember one guy telling me he built one and had to crawl under the entire length of a 2 ft high deck on his back to screw the brackets in. I like the look of a nice cedar deck with the screws all lined up anyways...
Are you going to do a concrete slab floor or wood?
firefighterjake said:
That's kinda funny Jake. Here,.. going south means maybe Saginaw, then going "downstate" is somewhere in the vicinity of Detroit.
In our climate, suggested attic insulation levels are r-48. Floor and walls, r-19. Windows .......on your own, since a lot of that has to do with aesthetics. I put some inexpensive vinyls in the pole barn, but rated well, with low-e and I think argon filled 2x pane. Even though you may be thinking "hey, it's only a getaway place", you will be MUCH more comfortable and use far less energy if you do this as well as you can afford to. Then do a little better. Much easier to do while in the building process.
Just my $.02
Oh, and as ckarotka suggests, the 13 should be able to heat that open floor plan easily if insulated well. Some friends have one, they love it.
To me, North Carolina is "up north"...
Anyway, I've read a lot of stories in Mother Earth News about people with occasional-use off-grid cabins that get looted. Something to consider if it's a really remote area.
As far as keeping the heat in, you can insulate the walls as much as you like, but if you use standard doors and windows they will be your weakest link. Even a good window is only about R-4 (but most are high 2s or low 3s), so if you have a lot of glass you have a lot of heat loss, and even having a really good wall system can only do so much to offset.
Anyway, I've read a lot of stories in Mother Earth News about people with occasional-use off-grid cabins that get looted. Something to consider if it's a really remote area.
As far as keeping the heat in, you can insulate the walls as much as you like, but if you use standard doors and windows they will be your weakest link. Even a good window is only about R-4 (but most are high 2s or low 3s), so if you have a lot of glass you have a lot of heat loss, and even having a really good wall system can only do so much to offset.
Nothern Ontario, Canada
up north, relatively speaking
pretty close to what you're job sounds like, we're also building 1000 sq ft - but this is an addition onto existing camp (cottage for you big city folks).
2x6 walls - R22 (Roxul - love this stuff)
attic - R50 (Roxul - R22 batts laid between 2x6 ceiling joists, then double R14 batts perp to joists)
cath ceiling - R36 (Roxul)
would have loved to foam - do this if it's an option and in budget - for me (DIY) the Roxul was 1/3 of the cost of getting the spray foam guy out to my site and it is (IMHO) far better than fiberglass. but a ton of work either way. budget is the killer here. the foam is really nice. what I saved on the DIY with Roxul was enough to pay for woodstove and way beyond.
exterior walls will get wrapped in tyvek when we put siding on - the plywood sheathing is grooved / beaded (chalet style panels) and stained (cedar) with battens on the joints mostly to help keep the weather out until siding can go up - but it looks nice anyway - very rustic - something to think about if siding is not on the short list. I like HardiPlank siding and that's huge $$$ so its not happening for a while. Some interesting workarounds on windows / flashing etc for the interim (no tyvek) but it buys me some time to figure out the siding options.
windows were standard lumberyard items (vinyl, low-e, argon, double pane) - casements are double lock, others (sliders) also double lock. ok quality - not top of the line - but I took a lot of care installing and sealing and so far (2 years) no issues or complaints.
A fair amount of glass in the living area - so I didn't go crazy worrying about wall R values beyond the current R22 - as mentioned by another poster, the weakest link is the glass. I put the extra $$$ into the attic, ceiling. I might rethink this and add some foam boards exterior - later on when the siding goes on.
it's pretty tight - heated with Osburn 1800 which kept it toasty even during construction (once the roof was on and windows in, we lit it up).
sorry for rambling - anyway hope this is of some value - good luck....
up north, relatively speaking
pretty close to what you're job sounds like, we're also building 1000 sq ft - but this is an addition onto existing camp (cottage for you big city folks).
2x6 walls - R22 (Roxul - love this stuff)
attic - R50 (Roxul - R22 batts laid between 2x6 ceiling joists, then double R14 batts perp to joists)
cath ceiling - R36 (Roxul)
would have loved to foam - do this if it's an option and in budget - for me (DIY) the Roxul was 1/3 of the cost of getting the spray foam guy out to my site and it is (IMHO) far better than fiberglass. but a ton of work either way. budget is the killer here. the foam is really nice. what I saved on the DIY with Roxul was enough to pay for woodstove and way beyond.
exterior walls will get wrapped in tyvek when we put siding on - the plywood sheathing is grooved / beaded (chalet style panels) and stained (cedar) with battens on the joints mostly to help keep the weather out until siding can go up - but it looks nice anyway - very rustic - something to think about if siding is not on the short list. I like HardiPlank siding and that's huge $$$ so its not happening for a while. Some interesting workarounds on windows / flashing etc for the interim (no tyvek) but it buys me some time to figure out the siding options.
windows were standard lumberyard items (vinyl, low-e, argon, double pane) - casements are double lock, others (sliders) also double lock. ok quality - not top of the line - but I took a lot of care installing and sealing and so far (2 years) no issues or complaints.
A fair amount of glass in the living area - so I didn't go crazy worrying about wall R values beyond the current R22 - as mentioned by another poster, the weakest link is the glass. I put the extra $$$ into the attic, ceiling. I might rethink this and add some foam boards exterior - later on when the siding goes on.
it's pretty tight - heated with Osburn 1800 which kept it toasty even during construction (once the roof was on and windows in, we lit it up).
sorry for rambling - anyway hope this is of some value - good luck....
Adios Pantalones said:
When I was a kid I worked in a warehouse one summer. The forklift guy carried around a Confederate Silver Dollar in his wallet, so that when (his word, not mine) the South rose again wouldn't be broke. In his world view, anyone who lived north of Baton Rouge was a Yankee ;-)
I saw a great map once -- it mapped out the locations where McDonald's sells sweet ice tea. It's a map of "The South."
The "Cabin" sounds like a fun project. How are the roads to the site? If they are good enough for a semi w/ trailer look into SIP's (structural insulated panels).
Very fast to put up great insulating and tight. If not spray foam is great if it is in the budget, then dense pack or damp spray cellulose, and last and least any fiberglass product(batts or blown in).
Windows are a major source of heat loss, good windows are still not as well insulated as a poorly built wall. Keep the glazing down where it is not needed. Nothing seals as tight as a picture window, casements and awnings are next due to the latches being able to compress the weather seal, DH and sliders are the leakiest.
Trex and other composites are nice just be sure not to span too far and be aware that dark colors can become HOT in the sun (no bare feet). Just follow the manufacturers instructions for the instillation. The only problem I have had with early Trex was mildew in damp areas.
Stove size and fuel usage will depend on the construction and insulation you choose. My Morso 2110 (just over 1.3cf firebox)heats 1400+ sf living area very easily. I used SIP's and couldn't be happier.
North of 45,
Garett
Very fast to put up great insulating and tight. If not spray foam is great if it is in the budget, then dense pack or damp spray cellulose, and last and least any fiberglass product(batts or blown in).
Windows are a major source of heat loss, good windows are still not as well insulated as a poorly built wall. Keep the glazing down where it is not needed. Nothing seals as tight as a picture window, casements and awnings are next due to the latches being able to compress the weather seal, DH and sliders are the leakiest.
Trex and other composites are nice just be sure not to span too far and be aware that dark colors can become HOT in the sun (no bare feet). Just follow the manufacturers instructions for the instillation. The only problem I have had with early Trex was mildew in damp areas.
Stove size and fuel usage will depend on the construction and insulation you choose. My Morso 2110 (just over 1.3cf firebox)heats 1400+ sf living area very easily. I used SIP's and couldn't be happier.
North of 45,
Garett
Didn't mean to imply WV was north,but figured you guys who lived up north could give good advice insulation wise,as the builders here are not near as concerned about it.Access to site is good enough a tractor trailer could get in without a hitch.Matter of fact,talked to a guy today that builds log homes and he cut a kit for someone and now they are getting divorced and have backed out on him.He said he would make a deal I couldn't refuse,so my plans may change depending on what he considers a deal.Anyone want to help put a cabin together?The cabin is approx 1100 sq feet with a loft.
Hello,
I'm a union carpenter and ex home builder. I'd say 2x6 walls with roxul mineral wool insulation. On the outside: Dens glass or equivalent fiberglass gypsum board with tapped seams to prevent any air leaks. You wont even need the House wrap such as tyvek but it is an option. Then 1/2" foam insulation on the exterior. Two feet of insulation in the attic. Harvey windows come in great varieties even triple pane. They also cost less than the other big names such as Anderson but are just as good if not better. As far as the decking, you can't get any better than the composite decking as far as durability and versatility. You can get as fancy as you want with trex, azeck or other brands. Go on the trex website and check out what they offer. As far as fastners you can get hideaway screws that come with plugs to go on top of the screws. I would recommend framing 12" on center with any composite decking. They may sag if framed 16" o.c., I've seen it happen before.
With all that insulation you can pick any stove you want
You'll probably have a warm house. Though, I'd say, purchasing one that is rated to heat more than what you need is always better. You can also look into wood or multy fuel furnaces or boilers. Supplementing your hot water system with a couple solar panels wouldn't be a bad idea either. Just call us over for dinner when you're done! Good luck and burn on! Thanks for asking the question,
Chris
I'm a union carpenter and ex home builder. I'd say 2x6 walls with roxul mineral wool insulation. On the outside: Dens glass or equivalent fiberglass gypsum board with tapped seams to prevent any air leaks. You wont even need the House wrap such as tyvek but it is an option. Then 1/2" foam insulation on the exterior. Two feet of insulation in the attic. Harvey windows come in great varieties even triple pane. They also cost less than the other big names such as Anderson but are just as good if not better. As far as the decking, you can't get any better than the composite decking as far as durability and versatility. You can get as fancy as you want with trex, azeck or other brands. Go on the trex website and check out what they offer. As far as fastners you can get hideaway screws that come with plugs to go on top of the screws. I would recommend framing 12" on center with any composite decking. They may sag if framed 16" o.c., I've seen it happen before.
With all that insulation you can pick any stove you want
You'll probably have a warm house. Though, I'd say, purchasing one that is rated to heat more than what you need is always better. You can also look into wood or multy fuel furnaces or boilers. Supplementing your hot water system with a couple solar panels wouldn't be a bad idea either. Just call us over for dinner when you're done! Good luck and burn on! Thanks for asking the question,Chris
Call me crazy but this is just a camp right? Man, while surely a few exist practically no one goes to those extremes for a camp even in our deep freeze climate. Anything beyond 6" walls and R-38 in the ceiling is pretty much overkill for the use a camp gets. Using spray foam in a climate for VA for a camp seems way overboard. People up here in Northern NY rarely seem to use it for their houses due to the extreme cost involved. If you have a pile of cash to drop and nothig to do with it go for it sure but I question the need and utility of a thermos bottle camp especially in a mild climate like that. Assuming you can heat it with gathered wood rather than $4 fuel oil makes it seem even more needlessly costly to me. May be we have different ideas of what constitutes a camp. If it was me and part time useage I would spend the $$$ on wellr insulated easy drain water supply so you can come and go quickly. Same logic goes for the composite deck. Fantastic stuff with an equally fantastic price to boot. Good old pressure treated will last at least 40 years and need minimal maintenance. Cheap by comparison. Just my 2cents worth for the perspective of a cheap bastard........................
Take a look at Atlas roof insulation. You can buy it from Stetson building products or from another local supplier. They produce a foam panel designed for use on the roof and in walls that is similar to Structurally Insulated Panels (SIP). The difference is that these are available directly to homeowners for DIY. One of their products has OSB on one side and a vapor barrier on the other, with a chase in between for electrical and plumbing. With some trusses and an integrated design plan you could quickly build a well insulated cabin with far less labor. You could most likely live with the OSB interior for a bit while finishing the outside with a product like hardi-board. Hardi-board (sp?) is a cement based product that holds paint well, is more attractive than vinyl, and comes in below wood siding in price and maintenance. I’ve had reasonable luck with higher (2000 series and up) end Willmar windows from Canada. Throw on some metal roofing and you’ll have an attractive, moderately priced cabin, that’s energy efficient and requires minimal maintenance.
Oh, some parts of WV are certainly north!
There are actually ARTIC climes in a few places.....their is one rabbit that only lives in Canada and further north....and is also in WV! (snowshoe hare?)......
WV is colder than it may seem at first glance for various reasons. The hills are so high and numerous that you rarely get a full day of sun anywhere. That makes a big difference.
Personally, I would insulate the heck out of the floors, since cold always seems to transmit upwards from there. Regular insulation in the walls and ceilings should be fine - air tightness might be as big of a issue.....caulk and then caulk more!
As to a wood stove, one which heats up really quick is a good goal....this often means a bit thinner metal or smaller box or both. Most non-cats do heat up pretty quick. As long as a long burn is not needed (you have other heat in the house, etc.), then a nice stove of about 2 Cubic foot firebox might be ideal.
If you are big on DIY or have cheap labor available, a large masonry backwall would be nice to soak up heat from the stove and then re-release it. This is optional, of course, but a couple thousands lbs of mass does a nice job at moderating heat output.
There are actually ARTIC climes in a few places.....their is one rabbit that only lives in Canada and further north....and is also in WV! (snowshoe hare?)......
WV is colder than it may seem at first glance for various reasons. The hills are so high and numerous that you rarely get a full day of sun anywhere. That makes a big difference.
Personally, I would insulate the heck out of the floors, since cold always seems to transmit upwards from there. Regular insulation in the walls and ceilings should be fine - air tightness might be as big of a issue.....caulk and then caulk more!
As to a wood stove, one which heats up really quick is a good goal....this often means a bit thinner metal or smaller box or both. Most non-cats do heat up pretty quick. As long as a long burn is not needed (you have other heat in the house, etc.), then a nice stove of about 2 Cubic foot firebox might be ideal.
If you are big on DIY or have cheap labor available, a large masonry backwall would be nice to soak up heat from the stove and then re-release it. This is optional, of course, but a couple thousands lbs of mass does a nice job at moderating heat output.
Another thing to keep in mind, especially if you're not doing the work yourself, is that a lot of builders outside of places where they have stringent inspection don't really do a good job when it comes to sealing a house. In fact a lot of them don't necessarily do a really good job on some of the basics, like flashing windows. They also don't necessarily follow plans. If you're not there 100% of the time, making sure they do things the way that you want them, they'll default to doing things however they feel like doing them.
I know there are some builders who are different, but I think the majority aren't, at least around here.
I know there are some builders who are different, but I think the majority aren't, at least around here.
kartracer = if you can grab up that log cabin kit - wow - that would be sweet - that would have been my absolute #1 choice except I haven't managed to trip over a bag of money yet. we have several builiders in the area and every time I go by one of those works in progress I'm drooling.
Driz makes a good point - you can overthink and overbuild this depending on how you plan to use it. I've spend many weekends in "bush camps" (bare bones, built with whatever materials a small plane and / or ATV can carry in several trips) - 4 walls, a tin roof, with a decent stove and a healthy supply of food and drink (and the right crew), it's always been a great experience.
If you are building it out a bit better, one thing to think about - critters - be obsessed about this.
spray foam like wall tite (sp?) not only keeps the heat in but it helps seal up all those little spaces that the vermin find and tell all their friends about. Spray, flash, galv screen, whatever, but seal it up tight - not just for heat, but so you don't build 1000 sq ft of mouse house (I wonder if the SIP's would have an advantage in that regard?) Anyway on my original camp I trusted the ridge vent mfg's claims that it would keep the buggers out. Found out the hard way that wasn't so (and once they find even a pin hole and get inside, all those rafter vents make great superhighways for mice, squirrels, etc.). After tearing out the ceiling and tossing most of the insulation, I invested in a large roll of hardware cloth (galvanized mesh) that goes over EVERYTHING where air flow is req'd. I talked to a roofer who laughed at me for the overkill ("mice don't come in thru the roof"). But he didn't have to deal with the mess they made when they did come in - thru the roof. A few years later, a contractor built a huge place on the same road - a weekend place for his clients. Reputable builder - assuming decent trades / contractors all around - but it was infested before it was finished. Guess I'm the fool on the hill, but several years later, no mice in my place. Wire mesh and polyurethane spray foam in the can - I went nuts with this stuff - in my crawl, around rim joists, sill plate, etc. etc.
If I was building a remote camp for just the guys to go out and kill a few brain cells on the odd weekend, it would be pretty basic. For the family, to get out there and get the place warmed up real fast, stay warm, no critters, some of the "comforts of home" to keep the "boss" happy -- these are all items on the to-do list. I'm sure you'll find the right balance. Good luck with your place.
Driz makes a good point - you can overthink and overbuild this depending on how you plan to use it. I've spend many weekends in "bush camps" (bare bones, built with whatever materials a small plane and / or ATV can carry in several trips) - 4 walls, a tin roof, with a decent stove and a healthy supply of food and drink (and the right crew), it's always been a great experience.
If you are building it out a bit better, one thing to think about - critters - be obsessed about this.
spray foam like wall tite (sp?) not only keeps the heat in but it helps seal up all those little spaces that the vermin find and tell all their friends about. Spray, flash, galv screen, whatever, but seal it up tight - not just for heat, but so you don't build 1000 sq ft of mouse house (I wonder if the SIP's would have an advantage in that regard?) Anyway on my original camp I trusted the ridge vent mfg's claims that it would keep the buggers out. Found out the hard way that wasn't so (and once they find even a pin hole and get inside, all those rafter vents make great superhighways for mice, squirrels, etc.). After tearing out the ceiling and tossing most of the insulation, I invested in a large roll of hardware cloth (galvanized mesh) that goes over EVERYTHING where air flow is req'd. I talked to a roofer who laughed at me for the overkill ("mice don't come in thru the roof"). But he didn't have to deal with the mess they made when they did come in - thru the roof. A few years later, a contractor built a huge place on the same road - a weekend place for his clients. Reputable builder - assuming decent trades / contractors all around - but it was infested before it was finished. Guess I'm the fool on the hill, but several years later, no mice in my place. Wire mesh and polyurethane spray foam in the can - I went nuts with this stuff - in my crawl, around rim joists, sill plate, etc. etc.
If I was building a remote camp for just the guys to go out and kill a few brain cells on the odd weekend, it would be pretty basic. For the family, to get out there and get the place warmed up real fast, stay warm, no critters, some of the "comforts of home" to keep the "boss" happy -- these are all items on the to-do list. I'm sure you'll find the right balance. Good luck with your place.
I like Roxul, but only because it withstands really high temps. I have a mess of it on my kiln. It's also good accoustical insulation- these properties leading to the term "acoustical fire batts"
pyper said:
yeah - - keeping the weather and the critters out will take some diligence on your part. a little water, a few mice == a LOT of damage.
i bet you could heat that thing in the coldest of winter with a 13-NC even with minimal insulation as long as the thing is sealed up tightly. Probably couldn't do that in northern MN, but it's possible in WV, I bet.
not saying i wouldn't insulate, just saying that you don't need to kill yourself with this thing.
not saying i wouldn't insulate, just saying that you don't need to kill yourself with this thing.
Driz said:
"I agree with foam insul. being a bit much as far as cost. However, insulation on walls, floor and ceiling will pay for itself ten fold. Both in comfort and heating costs for the life of the camp. Not to mention re-sale value. You can always go with 2x6 exterior walls and the cheapest 6" faced bats to do the job reasonably priced. Sheet it in 1/2" OSB and cover with the most inexpensive house wrap you can find and you'll have a solid frame that will outlive any of us. If you want to skip insulation the attic would be the place to to it. You can start out with an R-19 layer and add another layer each year (aternating the direction of the layers.) The only faced layer is the one against the ceiling, the others can be unfaced bats. After 3-4 layers you'll end up with an R value of 57-76. I would say Protect around the window and door openings with an extra 12" strip of tar paper or impermeable membrane of some sort in addition to the house wrap, those are problem areas that need a little extra attention. Ice and water shield is great to use for this (always start from the bottom and work your way up while applying these strips.) Use great stuff, expandable spray foam, around the doors and windows because this is where most of the heat loss occurs. Trim out all interior and exterior openings in 3/4 " trim boards with plenty or silicone caulking agaist all windows and doors. Also silicone the edge of the trim that'll come in contact with the siding and latex caulk inside the house where it sits on the interior sheeting to prevent water or vapor leakage in or out. These simple steps are often overlooked by many builders and are not costly but are time consuming. Are you doing any of the work yourself? If you're not, I seriously recommend frequent visits to the site during construction to assure these simple measures are taken. If you are this a simple way to save a lot of money. Especially the insulating and caulking . If you end up going with the log frame, some of the money you save could be used to build 2x4 insulated walls against the log exterior walls. The composite decking will outperform any PT decking by a far cry. There will be no splitting, cracking or stainning to do. The cost up front will pay for itself in a short period of time. All you'll have to do, is pressure wash it to keep it clean. If you have any questions fell free to PM me, I'd be happy to answer. "
R57? are you serious? in a 1000sq ft open cabin all this talk of r50 and up is just crazy. I mean, i can't argue that it would be nice, and that it might make things more comfortable, but geesh. "diminishing returns" is the phrase that keeps popping into my head.
If'n it were me, i'd throw R-19 on the exterior 2x6 walls and call it a day. depending on what your ceiling and roof is, there are several different ways you could go about that, but if there's a vaulted ceiling i'd put something heftier than r-19 there, but not a whole lot more. seriously, this is just a cabin, right?
If'n it were me, i'd throw R-19 on the exterior 2x6 walls and call it a day. depending on what your ceiling and roof is, there are several different ways you could go about that, but if there's a vaulted ceiling i'd put something heftier than r-19 there, but not a whole lot more. seriously, this is just a cabin, right?
Danno77 said:
"I don't disagree with you Dan. In a camp, where the owner will be spending little time in, it may be overkill to insulate the ceiling with R57-76. However, it seemed to me that the original question was: what's the best way to insulate the camp? In that case I would recommend starting with the R-19 and adding to it until you're perfect. IMHO, the best amount is up to 2 feet. In my ranch attic we only have one foot of fiberglass. My father in law has two feet in his raised ranch and his heat stays in there for days! He also has cathedral ceilings. I just think it's worth to go as much as your comfortable with. If the starting point of R19 is satisfactory then stick with it.
In commercial buildings I've built roofs with all sorts of material the most extreme being: two layers of 3" rigid on corrugated steel with tar paper in between, topped off with plywood and another layer of impermeable membrane on top then galvinized copper on top. This was used at both the Worcester Court house (over $300,000,000 job) and Springfield Federal Court House (over $200,000,000 job designed after the Oklahoma City building that was bombed.) Those were both supposed to be 100 year roofs. My point is, the trend is to go with more rather than less, especially when it comes to protecting and insulating the top of the buildings. I realize the building in question is just a camp, but if the owner wants to build it right the first time, why not? That being said, if the owner is satisfied with the R19 and the comfort level is acceptable that's all that counts. Well sorry for rambling on guys I hope all of this has been helpful! Good luck with your camp brother, burn on!
Chris"
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