questions about replacing existing wood stove

[oilcan1001]

Hey all,
I'm a new member and have been reading many threads to gather info. There is a wealth of knowledge here.

What I have :
-1988 Pacific Energy - Super 27
-the stove pipe and chimney pipe are probably the same age
-single story straight up through ceiling installation
-I live in the Prescott AZ area so the stove gets used about 6-7 months per year

Here's my situation. I bought my house a couple years ago with the wood stove already in place. I have used it for 2 winters as primary heat. I do have propane central heat, but use the wood stove to save money. The stove seems to work ok and heats nicely, but I think it could be better and I am worried that it has reached the end of its life so I want to upgrade to a new one before this next winter. While researching , I think I may have to upgrade the chimney assembly also. I guess I'm looking for some opinions on whether or not these are needed.
Can any parts of the chimney be re-used or rebuilt or should I just replace all ?

Thanks in advance

 

[begreen]

The stove could have a lot more life left in it unless there are serious defects. Between 1998 and 2019 there were only minor changes to this model. The steel firebox is likely still in good condition. If it needs bricks and insulation pieces or a new baffle, all those parts are still available for this unit. Can you post some pictures of the insides of the stove?

Have a professional, certified sweep examine the chimney and stovepipe. If they are still in good working condition then a good cleaning may be all that's required.

 

[oilcan1001]

The stove could have a lot more life left in it unless there are serious defects. Between 1998 and 2019 there were only minor changes to this model. The steel firebox is likely still in good condition. If it needs bricks and insulation pieces or a new baffle, all those parts are still available for this unit. Can you post some pictures of the insides of the stove?

Have a professional, certified sweep examine the chimney and stovepipe. If they are still in good working condition then a good cleaning may be all that's required.

You may have mis-read the mfr date. It's 1988
The stove is 35 yrs old.
The baffle in the pic is not crumbling but I think it's about done. And I called PE and they dont have parts for this old of a unit.

 

[begreen]

Indeed I did misread it as 1998, thanks.

Ouch, that baffle is long gone. Back then they used steel. It should have been replaced years ago. The baffle design since at least the mid 90's has been stainless steel. A rebuild kit for the stove including a new baffle would make it properly operational again. A rebuild would be under $1000 with bricks and new stainless brick rails, There would be a day and night difference in burning after this is done. However, it would take a good dealer to procure these parts for this old model. Tom Oyen was the go-to person for this but sadly passed last year.

If you want to replace the stove , look at the current PE Super LE or Alderlea T5. It is a great stove. Some other N/S loading non-cats in this size would be the Lopi Endeavor and Quadrafire Millenium 3100. The value version of the Super LE is the True North TN20.

 

[oilcan1001]

Indeed I did misread it as 1998, thanks.

Ouch, that baffle is long gone. Back then they used steel. It should have been replaced years ago. The baffle design since at least the mid 90's switched to stainless steel. A rebuild kit for the stove including a new baffle would make it properly operational again. A rebuild would be under $1000 with bricks, and new stainless brick rails, There would be a day and night difference in burning after this is done.

If you want to replace the, look at the current PE Super LE. It is a great stove. Some other N/S loading non-cats in this size would be the Lopi Endeavor and Quadrafire Millenium 3100. The value version of the Super LE is the True North TN20.

Yea 35 years of fires is plenty for a wood stove.
I am leaning towards the Drolet Escape 1800 mostly because of the "top air deflector".
Included: steel legs with ash drawer, top air deflector, ceramic glass, ash lip, air damper
My PE has an exhaust damper built in right at the stove pipe connection and I'm hoping the Drolet's air deflector is similar.

 

[begreen]

The Drolet 1800 is a workhorse value stove and very popular. It is a little larger but does not have as deep a firebox for N/S loading as the Super. For N/S loading, the firewood should be no longer than 16" with 14" more ideal. @EbS-P runs an 1800 regularly and can provide more details.

The air deflector is not a flue damper at the stove pipe connection. It is a cowling at the back of the stovetop to deflect blower air over the top of the stove. Unless the flue system is taller than 20' it probably will not need a flue damper. The new stove will burn much differently than the old Super limping with a blown out baffle with better air control and secondary burn cycle.

 

[oilcan1001]

The Drolet 1800 is a workhorse value stove and very popular. It is a little larger but does not have as deep a firebox for N/S loading as the Super. For N/S loading, the firewood should be no longer than 16" with 14" more ideal. @EbS-P runs an 1800 regularly and can provide more details.

The air deflector is not a flue damper at the stove pipe connection. It is a cowling at the back of the stovetop to deflect blower air over the top of the stove. Unless the flue system is taller than 20' it probably will not need a flue damper. The new stove will burn much differently than the old Super limping with a blown out baffle with better air control and secondary burn cycle.

Thanks for the info.

The built in damper on my current PE works really nice and It only blocks 80% of the opening when fully closed. (the way it was designed)
I haven't found any new stoves with this feature. (In my price range anyway)

I've read a lot of people mentioning N/S loading. Can you tell me the significance and/or benefit of this ?

 

[begreen]

The built in damper on my current PE works really nice and It only blocks 80% of the opening when fully closed. (the way it was designed)
I haven't found any new stoves with this feature. (In my price range anyway)

That's because they don't need it. It's a legacy stove "feature". The old Super ran "ok" in this case because of the blown-out baffle which was pumping in secondary air through the gaping hole. Normally it would not be needed. Burning in a new stove will be a new experience.

I've read a lot of people mentioning N/S loading. Can you tell me the significance and/or benefit of this ?

North/South loading allows one to fill the firebox completely without concerns about a log rolling up against the glass. (or out of the stove! ) When filling an E/W firebox one needs to stack it so that the load is tapered toward the back. It can't be fully loaded without worry. Your hearth is nice and deep so a deep firebox stove fits well there.

 

[oilcan1001]

That's because they don't need it. It's a legacy stove "feature". The old Super ran "ok" in this case because of the blown-out baffle which was pumping in secondary air through the gaping hole. Normally it would not be needed. Burning in a new stove will be a new experience.

North/South loading allows one to fill the firebox completely without concerns about a log rolling up against the glass. (or out of the stove! ) When filling an E/W firebox one needs to stack it so that the load is tapered toward the back. It can't be fully loaded without worry. Your hearth is nice and deep so a deep firebox stove fits well there.

The N/S makes sense. I never loaded up my stove for fear of over heating or melting the old thing, LOL
Plus it is kinda small so 2 or 3 splits was about max.

Thanks for answering my questions begreen.
I'm sure I'll have more down the road

 

[begreen]

The N/S makes sense. I never loaded up my stove for fear of over heating or melting the old thing, LOL
Plus it is kinda small so 2 or 3 splits was about max.

Thanks for answering my questions begreen.
I'm sure I'll have more down the road

It's a decent, medium-sized stove. Fully loaded and depending on the split size it can handle 6-8 splits easily loaded N/S. There is a lot more heat potential in that stove than has been realized and a lot longer burns.

 

[TomMcDonald]

I never loaded up my stove for fear of over heating or melting the old thing, LOL

That ship has sailed - LOL.

 

[Woody Stover]

This is a great time to upgrade, with the 30% Federal tax credit.
But do you even need as much heat as the Super puts out, living in AZ? What is the construction, layout and sq.ft. of the house, and how good is insulation and air-sealing?
What type of chimney is above the ceiling support box, Class A double-wall with insulation? There may be a sticker on the portion that's above the ceiling, but doubtful there is still one left on the chimney outside. Pics may help us here.
Have you had the chimney inspected by a sweep...or are there even any sweeps at all in AZ? 😏

 

[oilcan1001]

This is a great time to upgrade, with the 30% Federal tax credit.
But do you even need as much heat as the Super puts out, living in AZ? What is the construction, layout and sq.ft. of the house, and how good is insulation and air-sealing?
What type of chimney is above the ceiling support box, Class A double-wall with insulation? There may be a sticker on the portion that's above the ceiling, but doubtful there is still one left on the chimney outside. Pics may help us here.
Have you had the chimney inspected by a sweep...or are there even any sweeps at all in AZ? 😏

HaHaHa.
Lots of people think that Arizona is always moderate to hot, but there are high country areas like Flagstaff, Payson and my area Prescott that get several weeks of overnight temps in the single digits and snow.
I personally burned about 3 cords from late October to middle of April. This may not be as severe as other places in the US but I/we still need to heat ourselves.

I will be reaching out to a sweep to come have a good look at my situation.

 

[Woody Stover]

HaHaHa.
Lots of people think that Arizona is always moderate to hot, but there are high country areas like Flagstaff, Payson and my area Prescott that get several weeks of overnight temps in the single digits and snow.
I personally burned about 3 cords from late October to middle of April. This may not be as severe as other places in the US but I/we still need to heat ourselves.

Yeah, I was pulling your leg a bit; My sis lives in Socorro, NM and they do a good bit of wood heating. Her house is adobe but I don't know exactly how that affects heating needs in that climate. Maybe more sunshine would heat the adobe more, but I think a lot of it is white to combat summer heat. A smart home, that would change colors of adobe as required, would be smart indeed.
Thermal mass on the walls here, in a cooler climate, makes our house harder to heat, and the exterior logs don't absorb much of the limited sunlight, and let cold air behind them, which draws out room heat.
That said, a modern stove of the same size might put a lot more heat into your house than your old one does. Although it's possible to do, it's preferable not to have to burn a lot of small loads in a stove that's too big for the space most of the time. Better to have a stove that's the right size most of the time. As long as someone is there to load and run it, a smaller box isn't an issue. If the stove has to run ten or twelve hours with no one there, then you may need a bigger box...or fall back on your house's heating system.
Lotta "ifs" in stove selection, that's why I asked about some of the particulars..

 

[oilcan1001]

Although it's possible to do, it's preferable not to have to burn a lot of small loads in a stove that's too big for the space most of the time. Better to have a stove that's the right size most of the time. As long as someone is there to load and run it, a smaller box isn't an issue. If the stove has to run ten or twelve hours with no one there, then you may need a bigger box...or fall back on your house's heating system.

My house gets plenty of daytime sun in the winter so normally I only need to start my stove in the late afternoon.

I'm curious about loading up these wood stoves. Is it normal to put as many splits as you can in then let 'er rip and roar ? I am only putting in 1-3 splits (depending on diameter) then keeping it at a medium burn with secondary air damper. Because of the age and condition of my unit I would get spooked if the whole interior got to a blazing inferno.

 

[begreen]

My house gets plenty of daytime sun in the winter so normally I only need to start my stove in the late afternoon.

I'm curious about loading up these wood stoves. Is it normal to put as many splits as you can in then let 'er rip and roar ? I am only putting in 1-3 splits (depending on diameter) then keeping it at a medium burn with secondary air damper. Because of the age and condition of my unit I would get spooked if the whole interior got to a blazing inferno.

It's normal to put in enough wood to heat it up sufficiently to achieve secondary combustion. In the Super that would be 3- 5 splits. A full load is preferable for 24/7 operation and during very cold weather.

 

[Woody Stover]

My house gets plenty of daytime sun in the winter so normally I only need to start my stove in the late afternoon.

I'm curious about loading up these wood stoves. Is it normal to put as many splits as you can in then let 'er rip and roar ? I am only putting in 1-3 splits (depending on diameter) then keeping it at a medium burn with secondary air damper. Because of the age and condition of my unit I would get spooked if the whole interior got to a blazing inferno.

Do you have a stovetop thermometer, near the flue exit? If you "let 'er rip and roar," you may overfire your new stove and void the warranty. The PE stoves breathe very easy. I had to put a damper in the connector pipe of my SIL's T5, and that's only a 16' chimney. And hers is a 2019..I think the new ones burn even hotter. I actually stacked two flue dampers, and the second one cuts the air even more when needed, as when it's very cold outside and draft gets stronger. If you have a medium-height or tall chimney, definitely install at least one flue damper.
I also got her the blower so that if the stove is pushing much above 700, she can use the blower to cool it off a bit. The PE blowers are very quiet, and would help if you need to heat a lot of air and move it to other rooms. Then you could put a small desk fan on the floor, on low, in a room or hallway where you need heat, and move the more dense cold air toward the stove room. This boosts the natural convection loop that is already happening. Hot air rises and is displaced out the top of the doorway by cool, dense air flowing in the bottom. This can also make the stove room tolerable when seated, but your stove appears to be in a big, open room..

 

[oilcan1001]

Do you have a stovetop thermometer, near the flue exit? If you "let 'er rip and roar," you may overfire your new stove and void the warranty. The PE stoves breathe very easy. I had to put a damper in the connector pipe of my SIL's T5, and that's only a 16' chimney. And hers is a 2019..I think the new ones burn even hotter. I actually stacked two flue dampers, and the second one cuts the air even more when needed, as when it's very cold outside and draft gets stronger. If you have a medium-height or tall chimney, definitely install at least one flue damper.
I also got her the blower so that if the stove is pushing much above 700, she can use the blower to cool it off a bit. The PE blowers are very quiet, and would help if you need to heat a lot of air and move it to other rooms. Then you could put a small desk fan on the floor, on low, in a room or hallway where you need heat, and move the more dense cold air toward the stove room. This boosts the natural convection loop that is already happening. Hot air rises and is displaced out the top of the doorway by cool, dense air flowing in the bottom. This can also make the stove room tolerable when seated, but your stove appears to be in a big, open room..

No thermometer on this one, but I'll add that to the list for my new stove and set up. I'm really leaning towards the Drolet Escape 1800.
Any idea how loud their blowers are ?
Yes, the main room is open space with 8' ceilings but I'd like to get some of the heat down the hallway to bedrooms. The hallway is straight across from the living room stove.

 

[begreen]

How many sq ft is getting heated?
For comparison, look at the True North TN20. It can load 18" wood N/S and is under $2k.

 

[oilcan1001]

How many sq ft is getting heated?
For comparison, look at the True North TN20. It can load 18" wood N/S and is under $2k.

My house is 2150 sf liveable single story. But because of the layout the master bedroom never gets heat from the stove so about 1600sf for the stove to heat.

The TN20 is nice but the steel thickness of the Drolet is about 33% more (3/16") vs TN20 10ga (9/64)
That is if the specs of the units are true.
Most everything else is similar from what I can tell.

 

[begreen]

My house is 2150 sf liveable single story. But because of the layout the master bedroom never gets heat from the stove so about 1600sf for the stove to heat.

The TN20 is nice but the steel thickness of the Drolet is about 33% more (3/16") vs TN20 10ga (9/64)
That is if the specs of the units are true.
Most everything else is similar from what I can tell.

The TN 20 has a N/S firebox, like the Super. The Drolet 1800 is a bit more biased toward E/W loading unless the splits are a bit short of 16". It definitely is enough stove to heat the place.

The Quad Millenium 3100 is another medium-sized N/S loader.

 

[EbS-P]

No thermometer on this one, but I'll add that to the list for my new stove and set up. I'm really leaning towards the Drolet Escape 1800.
Any idea how loud their blowers are ?
Yes, the main room is open space with 8' ceilings but I'd like to get some of the heat down the hallway to bedrooms. The hallway is straight across from the living room stove.

My insert blower is quiet enough on medium. Really quite below that. For a stove I think it’s probably only needed to when you have to push the stove hard. Do you cut your own firewood? 14” lengths loaded N/S is a game changer for me.

How tall is the flue? Anything over 18-20’ may need a manual damper.

The only down side of the Drolet is the vermiculite baffle. It’s not bad you just need to be carded loading the stove.

I didn’t read to closely but 30 year old chimney should be inspected. If tax credit maxes out at $2k but that should be ok as new Drolet and chimney installed should be less than $8k so you could get the full 25% credit.

 

[Woody Stover]

25% credit.

30% this year. 👍

 

[BKVP]

The 25(C) Tax credit is 30%, with a cap of $2000.00

BKVP