Registration of wood stoves.

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
21,599
central pa
Use the hoops that California went through on ZEVs, PZEX, SULEVS and PHEVs (probably missed a few. It depends where the bubble is drawn. Up until Navajo Electric shut down, PZEVs could be cleaner than ZEVs charged with grid power. The devil is always in the details. The Manomet study that Mass paid for came to the conclusion that burning biomass was dirtier than coal. Even the authors came out afterwards and admitted that they were told what conclusions they needed to come to prior to writing the study. One of the big issues of late is the speed where a technology breaks even on sustainable, In order to make climate change "real" to the general population is to accelerate the impact to shorten the time scale, thus there are discussions that a technology is not sustainable enough and should be net positive in environmental impact.

There are lot of fingers pointed at the Drax power generation station in the UK. Its was converted to burn biomass to the tune of 7.5 million tons a year. Its generally regarded that it burns about 10 % of the wood pellets produced in the world. It was a coal plant previously. So this is great progress from the UKs point of view? Now pull back and look at the world climate point of view and it gets bit dicier, the UK doesn't have a lot of trees and they sure dont want to cut them to make pellets so they ship the pellets in from the southeast of the US and Canada. I am unsure for the Canadian supplies but the US pellets are made from plantation grown genetically altered wood. This is not scraps from lumber operations these are trees designed and grown to be ground up into pellets. How do these pellets get to the UK? they go on cargo ships fueled by bunker C fuel oil. There are also issues that the nutrients are getting sucked out of the soil in the US and never being returned, this degrades the soil long term.

Biomass plants are not incredibly efficient, they do not burn as hot as coal so the cycle efficiency is lower than coal. The plants generally need to be base loaded. Compare that to a natural gas combined cycle plant at a considerable higher efficiency which can vary its output.

Now it gets bit murkier on exactly how sustainable Drax is. It all depends on who draws the boundaries. The same thing is going to apply to the Green New Deal.
??? Not sure I understand how this relates.
 

peakbagger

Minister of Fire
Jul 11, 2008
5,357
Northern NH
The thread had shifted over to zero emission homes. I was pointing and illustrating that who and how zero emission is defined will vary. If someone wants to define wood burning as zero emssions then no need to register the stove but if the want to define them another way as gross polluter than they may need to be registered.
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
21,599
central pa
The thread had shifted over to zero emission homes. I was pointing and illustrating that who and how zero emission is defined will vary. If someone wants to define wood burning as zero emssions then no need to register the stove but if the want to define them another way as gross polluter than they may need to be registered.
They only need to be registered in one community in Alaska.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SpaceBus

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
21,599
central pa
And there are no zero emission homes
 
  • Like
Reactions: SpaceBus

Riddlefiddle

Member
Nov 7, 2017
109
Attica, New York
Isn't it funny. The EPA said that wood stoves where causing pollution. What about the chem trails that they have been blowing into the atmosphere for years and years. That is your problem, not stoves.
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
83,007
South Puget Sound, WA
No it isn't. That is an entirely different issue.
 
  • Like
Reactions: bholler

SpaceBus

Minister of Fire
Nov 18, 2018
4,342
Downeast Maine
Isn't it funny. The EPA said that wood stoves where causing pollution. What about the chem trails that they have been blowing into the atmosphere for years and years. That is your problem, not stoves.
Are they a problem?
 
  • Like
Reactions: bholler

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
21,599
central pa
Isn't it funny. The EPA said that wood stoves where causing pollution. What about the chem trails that they have been blowing into the atmosphere for years and years. That is your problem, not stoves.
Wow.
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
21,599
central pa
Don't diddle Riddlefiddle, too many greenies here ;lol
What does being a greeny or not have to do with chem trails? Or wanting to look at actual facts instead of rumors.
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
83,007
South Puget Sound, WA
Do you also believe the chem trails are harmful?
There is some evidence regarding higher cancer rates in residences close to major airports. Other than that, most reports seem to be conspiracy theory if talking about water vapor trails in the high atmosphere. This is way off-topic.
 

WiscWoody

Minister of Fire
I wouldn’t really care if a stove I bought was registered at the POS. (thats point of sale...) I highly doubt the wood stove police would be knocking on my door someday to take away my heater. And I don’t care if they want to take away my guns cos I dont own any. I don’t see any reason to own any myself. Up here we leave the keys in the trucks and the doors to the houses unlocked. I don’t feel the least bit frightened by anyone or anything up here. Oh, and I don’t hunt either.
 

ABMax24

Feeling the Heat
My question is what purpose does registering a stove actually serve? Other than to give the government control to either tax them or restrict their use. Either way I'm not a supporter, forcing manufacturers to build emissions approved stoves is the best way to prevent pollution anyway.
 

SpaceBus

Minister of Fire
Nov 18, 2018
4,342
Downeast Maine
It's a way to study how folks are burning their stoves, what stoves they are burning, and how this affects emissions and air quality. This specific instance is a local government initiative, not a federal or high up government. I don't think community leaders are looking to outlaw wood stoves in Alaska.
 
  • Like
Reactions: bholler