Registration of wood stoves.

SpaceBus

Minister of Fire
Nov 18, 2018
4,333
Downeast Maine
The EPA did an air study in my very remote area saying it was the terrain and prevailing winds plus some other crap. The town I’m in is 25k acres like every other “township”. There are 125 voters. The next 3 towns north might have another 30. One town south is less than 2000. Look up Moosehead Lake Maine.
What kind of study looks at such a remote place for wood burning? Having 10k NW winds is very common. NW of there is more very low population areas.

I could go on.
They look at remote areas because the only air contamination is from wood smoke. There are no Teflon plants or steel mills in remote Alaska or Maine.
 
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Bad LP

Minister of Fire
Nov 28, 2014
1,178
Northern Maine
They look at remote areas because the only air contamination is from wood smoke. There are no Teflon plants or steel mills in remote Alaska or Maine.
Ya. My point was I’m Slightly more concerned about general air pollution than a little wood smoke on the edge of nowhere.
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
21,581
central pa
Ya. My point was I’m Slightly more concerned about general air pollution than a little wood smoke on the edge of nowhere.
Yes but by studying it where there is little other air pollution it gives them clearer data on just wood burning
 

Easy Livin’ 3000

Minister of Fire
Dec 23, 2015
2,668
SEPA
Yes but by studying it where there is little other air pollution it gives them clearer data on just wood burning
It's ironic that the word "control" has popped up here several times. It was the right word, but the wrong meaning of the word.

Brilliant.
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
82,978
South Puget Sound, WA
They have a serious pollution problem and they are trying to get a handle on it.
 
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peakbagger

Minister of Fire
Jul 11, 2008
5,350
Northern NH
Anyone familiar with the "tragedy of the commons" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons ? In the case of a local region with degraded air quality, the commons is the air. Everyone is contributing to it but no one wants to fix it as its lot easier to just blame someone else. Thus government gets to step in and figure it out. In this case registration is the first step in trying to figure out if there are low hanging fruit to improve air quality. Frequently it comes down to just a few bad apples are making the bulk of the pollution.

There is off the shelf technology that could easily pick up every operating woodburning appliance in a particular area on cold day. Just fly over an area snap a thermal image on a cold day and all the major heat sources will pop up. Then just screen for a certain temperature range and that would get pretty close to identifying the wood burners. From there there are laser based devices that can estimate emissions from a stack from a distance. No need to go on the private property just sit ont he public road and aim. If the stack is hidden from a public road just do it from a black helicopter ;).
 
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SpaceBus

Minister of Fire
Nov 18, 2018
4,333
Downeast Maine
Anyone familiar with the "tragedy of the commons" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons ? In the case of a local region with degraded air quality, the commons is the air. Everyone is contributing to it but no one wants to fix it as its lot easier to just blame someone else. Thus government gets to step in and figure it out. In this case registration is the first step in trying to figure out if there are low hanging fruit to improve air quality. Frequently it comes down to just a few bad apples are making the bulk of the pollution.

There is off the shelf technology that could easily pick up every operating woodburning appliance in a particular area on cold day. Just fly over an area snap a thermal image on a cold day and all the major heat sources will pop up. Then just screen for a certain temperature range and that would get pretty close to identifying the wood burners. From there there are laser based devices that can estimate emissions from a stack from a distance. No need to go on the private property just sit ont he public road and aim. If the stack is hidden from a public road just do it from a black helicopter ;).
That might go over about as well as the registery
 
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Easy Livin’ 3000

Minister of Fire
Dec 23, 2015
2,668
SEPA
Anyone familiar with the "tragedy of the commons" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons ? In the case of a local region with degraded air quality, the commons is the air. Everyone is contributing to it but no one wants to fix it as its lot easier to just blame someone else. Thus government gets to step in and figure it out. In this case registration is the first step in trying to figure out if there are low hanging fruit to improve air quality. Frequently it comes down to just a few bad apples are making the bulk of the pollution.

There is off the shelf technology that could easily pick up every operating woodburning appliance in a particular area on cold day. Just fly over an area snap a thermal image on a cold day and all the major heat sources will pop up. Then just screen for a certain temperature range and that would get pretty close to identifying the wood burners. From there there are laser based devices that can estimate emissions from a stack from a distance. No need to go on the private property just sit ont he public road and aim. If the stack is hidden from a public road just do it from a black helicopter ;).
I expect that drones will get the same thing done at a tiny fraction of the cost. I had my first experience with this a couple of weeks ago when I stepped out the back door and heard a fan noise. I looked around for where it was coming from, and finally looked up. There it was, a drone hovering right over my house. When they saw I was looking at it, it quickly disappeared over a hill.
 

SpaceBus

Minister of Fire
Nov 18, 2018
4,333
Downeast Maine
I expect that drones will get the same thing done at a tiny fraction of the cost. I had my first experience with this a couple of weeks ago when I stepped out the back door and heard a fan noise. I looked around for where it was coming from, and finally looked up. There it was, a drone hovering right over my house. When they saw I was looking at it, it quickly disappeared over a hill.
That's creepy. I think I would be investing in a ranged weapon that didn't use explosives.
 

Easy Livin’ 3000

Minister of Fire
Dec 23, 2015
2,668
SEPA
That's creepy. I think I would be investing in a ranged weapon that didn't use explosives.
It was so creepy.

It was far enough away that it would have been hard to hit with a pellet gun, etc., at least for me. I suspect it was just a nosy neighbor with her new Christmas toy, but I have no doubt that local governments will want to use them to keep their eyes on everything.

This will be a developing area of law, which is always playing catch up with technology.

My favorite story of govt going bad was a local school administrator that was turning on the cameras on the students borrowed laptops, in the students rooms. One of the kids lit up a joint or something, while in front of the computer in their room, and the genius administrator tried to punish the kid, revealing that they were spying on the kids at home.

There will be plenty more stories like this.
 

peakbagger

Minister of Fire
Jul 11, 2008
5,350
Northern NH
I pick "black helicopters" as they line up with with the anti authoritarian bent of this thread ;)
 

Socratic Monologue

Burning Hunk
Dec 2, 2009
194
WI

SpaceBus

Minister of Fire
Nov 18, 2018
4,333
Downeast Maine

Riddlefiddle

Member
Nov 7, 2017
109
Attica, New York
I love this website. I have gained a lot of knowledge about wood stoves. I love all things wood stove related, but some of you have not the the eyes to see, or the ears too hear.
 

Socratic Monologue

Burning Hunk
Dec 2, 2009
194
WI
While I do agree with your message and tell many others the same thing. Disasters are real, and it does feel like the world is ending for folks in Puerto Rico and Australia.
I agree, 100%. Disasters are real, and a big reason people in them feel as if the world is ending is because we haven't quite set up the sort of world in which we all help each other out. I don't pretend I'm an exception to this, either.

The fires in Australia are terrible. The situation in Puerto Rico is a crime; if this was instead in, say, Florida, the federal government would throw so many resources their way that it would make our heads spin. I assume it is pretty obvious why this isn't happening for PR, in spite of the fact that they are US citizens.

Just yesterday I listened to an old Radiolab episode, "Playing God" -- the segment about Katrina (from the book "Five Days at Memorial") is a good listen on the subject of disasters that border on apocalypse.


I kind of think the subject of this current thread, though, is something a bit different, and that's why I posted what I did. I didn't mean to minimize any real tragedies, which there are many now and in the past and in the future.
 
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bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
21,581
central pa
I love this web site and everything to do with wood stoves but some of you do not have the eyes too see or the ears too hear.
That is your perspective. Many of us feel the same way about people with your views. That is specifically why we try to keep the political discussion to a minimum here. There are many different perspectives here but that doesn't mean we shouldn't overlook those differences and help each other out.
 

Sodbuster

Minister of Fire
Sep 22, 2012
1,455
Michigan
"Thousands of area homes would need to switch to No. 1 fuel oil beginning in July 2020, which will increase costs. "

How'd you like it if the gov't told you that you had to stop burning wood and switch fuel oil, many can't afford that. Not only the cost of the furnace but the fluctuating high cost of fuel oil.
 

Sodbuster

Minister of Fire
Sep 22, 2012
1,455
Michigan
Anything to support that????
The Golden Valley Electric Association will be asked to burn No. 1 fuel oil on bad air days, while older-model wood stoves, coal-fired heaters and outdoor hydronic heaters will have until December 2024 to be removed and destroyed.
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
21,581
central pa
The Golden Valley Electric Association will be asked to burn No. 1 fuel oil on bad air days, while older-model wood stoves, coal-fired heaters and outdoor hydronic heaters will have until December 2024 to be removed and destroyed.
Ok but you can still burn wood in a modern stove right?
 

Socratic Monologue

Burning Hunk
Dec 2, 2009
194
WI
Ok but you can still burn wood in a modern stove right?
Yes, in one that the municipality will fund for those who need funding, up to $4,000.


I couldn't find anything on the alleged forced shift from wood to fuel oil, @Sodbuster -- do you have a link or other reference to support that? The reason I ask is that the borough codes includes this:

"B. The Fairbanks North Star Borough, excluding the natural gas utility, shall not in any way regulate, prohibit, curtail, ban, nor issue fines or fees associated with the sale, distribution, installation or operation of solid fuel heating appliances or any type of combustible fuels. (Ord. 2018-45 § 2, 2018; added by citizen initiative 10/25/18.) "
 
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Socratic Monologue

Burning Hunk
Dec 2, 2009
194
WI
"Thousands of area homes would need to switch to No. 1 fuel oil beginning in July 2020, which will increase costs. "
Ah, found it. A US News piece from May 2019 that includes the following: "The rules still require the signature of Republican Lt. Gov. Kevin Meyer in order to become law."


I find no legislation supporting this, but perhaps I don't know where to look. Anyone?
 
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