Replacement Insert for Appalachian Gemini

[Exmasonite]

Hey everybody.

Looking for a little advice. I purchased a house 2 years ago with an old Appalachian Stove Gemini insert. May be an XL like seen here:

(broken link removed to http://www.maconspas.com/appalachian-zc-inserts.html)

Or may be an older version... glass pattern is different. I had posted previously and people agree stove is probably early 90's or so.

Appalachian stove is apparently no longer in existence or doesn't reply to any email, phone, etc.

It's an old Cat stove that I can't replace cats (tried to remove one of 2 bolts and the first broke off so I left alone) and now am starting to have problems with damper and door handle. Long story short, I think i need to replace this thing. It still burns fairly well but the damper has gotten stuck a few times and I think something major is going to go at some point.

I had 2 local stove "experts" out to look at it a year ago and get an idea for replacement. Both gave pretty lofty quotes of $5K+ to pull out stove, insert/surround. It seems like the previous homeowner put this into a gas fireplace/chimney insert. Both though it would have to be completely pulled out and upgraded. It's vented into a 6" double walled pipe. Have had a professional sweep clean it each year, he says pipe, etc looks good. His assessment would be to replace stove and thinks the stove sellers were overthinking it.

My questions to the forum are this:

1) Is it reasonable to think I can just pull the gemini and get another insert in there? (My prior experiences have always been with free standing stoves so I am a complete novice with inserts)

2) Any advice on what sort of an insert to be looking for (makes, models, etc)

I am going to work on getting some updated pics of the stove and insert. I will try to link pics from my old threads separately.

Last thing... this stove is in an addition off the house but not very central to the home. It serves a common room we use a lot, about 350 sq ft ,that is otherwise very cold but as it doesn't heat much of the house, I am not dropping $5K+ into this. I think $2500-3k is the max I can justify.

 

[Exmasonite]

Here is pic of the stove... 2 stove guys I got quotes from talked about having to remove surround tile, etc. I am hoping they are over thinking it?

 

[Exmasonite]

So in doing some more research, maybe i have an appalachian 4N1 insert, not gemini? this is pic of my stove 100%:

https://www.shoppok.com/clarksville/a,35,107738,Appalachian-Wood-Stove----200--Clarksville-Tn--.htm

dimensions are: 25 1/2" wide X 20" deep X 22" high.

 

[sticks]

From the pic it looks it is the Gemini. They used the same firebox in different forms. Sometimes it can be hard to identify. I would say the marble will have to come off See what kind of chimney you have. I am betting it is 6” class A. You will probably be able to find a fireplace that is approved for that chimney

 

[Rickb]

If it was installedc in an old gas insert I would say its probably going to have to be completely removed. I know of no inserts that are allowed to be installed in a gas insert.

 

[Exmasonite]

Rick and Sticks-

Thanks for the replies. That's a little disappointing. So did something change with code, etc in the last 15-20 years where ZC inserts are a no go?

As an aside... the chimney is completely built out on an exterior wall. It has vinyl siding with plywood sheathing underneath on 3 sides so it's fully accessible. Does that give me any better options for upgrading/replacing? Really don't want to get into pulling out tile, etc.

If it weren't a blizzard out, I would send pics of outside. Will send some later when I get a chance.


As an aside, should i be on the lookout for a better functioning old gemini as a replacement for this one?

 

[Exmasonite]

So in doing some research, I came across regency inserts.

Here's the link:

https://www.regency-fire.com/en/Products/Wood/Wood-Inserts

with the following language:

Wood Fireplace Inserts

Update that drafty wood fireplace; and still enjoy the warmth and ambience that only wood can provide, with a Regency Wood Fireplace Insert. Designed to suit a range of styles and sizes, with the ability to fit into an existing stone/brick or factory-built/zero-clearance fireplace.

 

[mellow]

Find the paperwork on what manufacturer/model that ZC is. Both the Insert and the ZC have to approve for it to go in there.

I am willing to bet that is not approved to have an insert in it, no code change people just do what they want.

I agree a total ripout is what you looking at to do it right. Good news is you might be able to rip it out and do an alcove install with a freestanding stove. Bad news is your budget isn't going to support doing that unless you do it yourself and find a used stove.

 

[bholler]

Looking at those pictures my guess is your install is unsafe and you can't simply replace the insert.

 

[sticks]

Some of the mixup here might be in the term insert. There are quite a few things called inserts. A label is best or a few more pictures. I am pretty convinced that you have a Gemini ZC fireplace Which is a factory built ZC fireplace with a sealed door The combustion chamber just happens to be the same firebox they used for a free standing stove or an insert for a wood burning fireplace Until the weather breaks some preliminary research you could do is look at a Kozy Z42. There are other units but that will give you an idea of the direction you need to be looking. There may other things going on but how anyone can look at that picture and deem it unsafe is beyond me

 

[bholler]

Some of the mixup here might be in the term insert. There are quite a few things called inserts. A label is best or a few more pictures. I am pretty convinced that you have a Gemini ZC fireplace Which is a factory built ZC fireplace with a sealed door The combustion chamber just happens to be the same firebox they used for a free standing stove or an insert for a wood burning fireplace Until the weather breaks some preliminary research you could do is look at a Kozy Z42. There are other units but that will give you an idea of the direction you need to be looking. There may other things going on but how anyone can look at that picture and deem it unsafe is beyond me

Years of experience and the experience of the sweeps who were on site.

 

[bholler]

Some of the mixup here might be in the term insert. There are quite a few things called inserts. A label is best or a few more pictures. I am pretty convinced that you have a Gemini ZC fireplace Which is a factory built ZC fireplace with a sealed door The combustion chamber just happens to be the same firebox they used for a free standing stove or an insert for a wood burning fireplace Until the weather breaks some preliminary research you could do is look at a Kozy Z42. There are other units but that will give you an idea of the direction you need to be looking. There may other things going on but how anyone can look at that picture and deem it unsafe is beyond me

But i was unaware Appalachian was making zc units then so i may be totally wrong. But regardless i would be a complete tear out

 

[Exmasonite]

I appreciate everybody's input. A little disappointed as it looks like a pretty major undertaking and just can't justify that much $$ for an accessory room where I have difficulty getting heat to the rest of the house.

I will get some better pics when weather breaks and will look at that Kozy.

As I said before, I have full access to the back/sides/chimney of this unit by simply removing some siding and plywood in a 6'x4' build out for the chimney. That would be far easier and less expensive if need be. Maybe I have the option to put additional insulation/fireproofing back there once I can show the pics.

Found an old pic of back of house, you can see where the chimney/inset has been built out.

 

[bholler]

I appreciate everybody's input. A little disappointed as it looks like a pretty major undertaking and just can't justify that much $$ for an accessory room where I have difficulty getting heat to the rest of the house.

I will get some better pics when weather breaks and will look at that Kozy.

As I said before, I have full access to the back/sides/chimney of this unit by simply removing some siding and plywood in a 6'x4' build out for the chimney. That would be far easier and less expensive if need be. Maybe I have the option to put additional insulation/fireproofing back there once I can show the pics.

Found an old pic of back of house, you can see where the chimney/inset has been built out.
View attachment 239848

Yes whether or not this is a proper install replacing it would require tearing it all out and starting over. It is not a small job.

 

[mellow]

Since it is an entire ZC unit (see below), ALL of it has to be replaced with another ZC unit and matching approved chimney system.

 

[camp289]

hi
i just found your thread do you still have the stove it looks just like my gemin xl. if you decide to replace it i wood like to buy the door. i just bought a house with a gemini that is missing the door.