Roof Flashing Class (A) Chimney INSTALL

[hearthtools]

Icc has vented flashing and the AES catalog says for mobil home or when the chemney is in an inclosed space instalations. the part # is xfevfa but is dont show it as SS

The List price for the ICC stainless flashing is $68.00 for 6" and $84.00 for 8"
The standard Galvalume flashing is only $54.60 for 6" and a $74.00 more for the vented one.
All ICC flashings include the Storm Collar so you dont need to pay extra for that.

So im not sure what Gold plated flashing Mtstoveguy is selling for $99.00
LOL

 

[RoosterBoy]

thanks harthtool can you give me a website or a number i can order that for that price. save me a bit of money

thanks
Jason

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

Rod, your telling me that you have no idea why i would be suprised to see a $90 stainless steel flashing??. Have you ever priced anything else out before? Expecially steep roof flashings can be well over $100. So no, my flashings arent gold plated or anything fancy like that. Im realize that in all praticle matter that the flashing doesnt make one bit of difference weither its vented or not. The reason i question it is that a member of hearth net needs the entire scoop, what is leagle and what is not leagle. I have been in the depostiton chair a few times and i know what kind of crap attourneys can come up with. My point is, if you want to be 100% safe from the insurance company, you should install a complete system of parts. Not mix and match.
If you think its harmless, let me tell you my last deposition. My store got sued for selling a person a chimney cap. One that wasnt part of the chimney system that he had installed. He sold the house, and the new owners burnt it down. The house burnt down at the roof sheathing, not the cap. It didnt stop there insurance company from suing us. The only reason we were there is that we sold him a generic cap. My point is you cant be to carefull.
Ohh by the way, the installer of the chimney in that lawsuit brought the roof sheathing right up to the chimney pipe.

 

[RoosterBoy]

mountinstoveguy i do appreciate you giving me the full scoop and you bring up reasonable questions that i should be sure of before i complete the install.

#1is vented flashing a must and is using another ul listed product from another manufacture OK?

i will definitely make sure i can do this and make sure i fallow all safety and code rules. it's just a dam shame that you can sue a store because they sold you a chimney cap. wow that blows my mind. did the manufacture get sued also? and how did you make out mike did you have to pay any money.

i hate lawyers ;-)

thanks
Jason

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

We got brought in last november, and we were finally dismissed last week. It was a long drawn out deal. The people who got sued by the insurance companies, were us, the roofer, the installer, the original homeowner and i believe that was about it. The roofer got sued for not noticing the roof sheeting being to close to the pipe, the homeowner got sued because he was the one who installed the cap that he bought from us, and he too, should have noticed, and the people who installed are are still in the lawsuit. So far every one else has been dismissed. I can tell you this, we almost didnt get out of it. We keep these caps high up so customers have to ask for them, according to the lawyers its our responsibilty to make shure that they are going on the correct type of pipe. If we had them down low were anyone could take one we would have been out of this along time ago. Its silly.

 

[hearthtools]

Rod, your telling me that you have no idea why i would be suprised to see a $90 stainless steel flashing??. Have you ever priced anything else out before? Expecially steep roof flashings can be well over $100. So no, my flashings arent gold plated or anything fancy like that. Im realize that in all praticle matter that the flashing doesnt make one bit of difference weither its vented or not. The reason i question it is that a member of hearth net needs the entire scoop, what is leagle and what is not leagle. I have been in the depostiton chair a few times and i know what kind of crap attourneys can come up with. My point is, if you want to be 100% safe from the insurance company, you should install a complete system of parts. Not mix and match.
If you think its harmless, let me tell you my last deposition. My store got sued for selling a person a chimney cap. One that wasnt part of the chimney system that he had installed. He sold the house, and the new owners burnt it down. The house burnt down at the roof sheathing, not the cap. It didnt stop there insurance company from suing us. The only reason we were there is that we sold him a generic cap. My point is you cant be to carefull.
Ohh by the way, the installer of the chimney in that lawsuit brought the roof sheathing right up to the chimney pipe.

Im was only giving you crap about the $99 flashing because you posted twice that you could not believe the price for a SS flashing was less that a $100.
I see and know you point about mix and match. I would never Mix and match pipe but a flashing is a flashing. No mechanical parts or joints. just formed sheetmetal.
And as far as I new You never needed vented flashings unless it was a mobil. I think Duravent took the non vented away to keep the amount of compentents to stock down.

They would have sued if you have put the original brand cap on. People are just sue happy.
We put ICC cap as a replacement on all NON air cooled pipes all the time.
no differnt than puting a vacustack cap or some other type of High wind cap.

 

[hearthtools]

thanks harthtool can you give me a website or a number i can order that for that price. save me a bit of money

thanks
Jason

I though you said you found one for $99
To ship a flashing is a pain and would be oversize UPS would cost $30 is shipping.
best to stick with the one you have.
Check with local codes on the vented or non vented but im 99% sure in your instalation you dont need vented.
The ISS does not offer vented in SS and I dont stock the SS flashing.

 

[hearthtools]

Now come on, simpson produts are not crap. As far as ICC goes, I dont do business with the distributor, so there out. Simpson makes a great produce too. There support boxes are 12" square, they have 48" 6" 9 " telescoping lengths, etc. ICC is the first brand that i have seen that doesnt ventalte there flashings. Are you shure there ok to install on non ICC pipe?

Is the distributor AES? I know they have a warehouse in CO.
www.aes4home.com

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

Yea, that would be it. There has been a long time battle between them and my buyer for some time. Its sucks, because i do like the ICC product line, they have some unique stuff.

 

[RoosterBoy]

i just don't understand why hart and Cooley don't make the flashing and collar in stainless looks like after a few years the pipe will look grey instead of nice and shinny. same go's for the support and the single wall adaptors. what do you guys think.

i think to be safe insurance wise i will have to use hart and Cooley flashing and collar. sucks also looks like to be safe in case i sell the house i will install a insulation shield Even though insulation wont be near the pipe and i don't need any more i put r38 up in the attic.

thanks
Jason

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

Rod, your telling me that you have no idea why i would be suprised to see a $90 stainless steel flashing??. Have you ever priced anything else out before? Expecially steep roof flashings can be well over $100. So no, my flashings arent gold plated or anything fancy like that. Im realize that in all praticle matter that the flashing doesnt make one bit of difference weither its vented or not. The reason i question it is that a member of hearth net needs the entire scoop, what is leagle and what is not leagle. I have been in the depostiton chair a few times and i know what kind of crap attourneys can come up with. My point is, if you want to be 100% safe from the insurance company, you should install a complete system of parts. Not mix and match.
If you think its harmless, let me tell you my last deposition. My store got sued for selling a person a chimney cap. One that wasnt part of the chimney system that he had installed. He sold the house, and the new owners burnt it down. The house burnt down at the roof sheathing, not the cap. It didnt stop there insurance company from suing us. The only reason we were there is that we sold him a generic cap. My point is you cant be to carefull.
Ohh by the way, the installer of the chimney in that lawsuit brought the roof sheathing right up to the chimney pipe.

Im was only giving you crap about the $99 flashing because you posted twice that you could not believe the price for a SS flashing was less that a $100.
I see and know you point about mix and match. I would never Mix and match pipe but a flashing is a flashing. No mechanical parts or joints. just formed sheetmetal.
And as far as I new You never needed vented flashings unless it was a mobil. I think Duravent took the non vented away to keep the amount of compentents to stock down.

They would have sued if you have put the original brand cap on. People are just sue happy.
We put ICC cap as a replacement on all NON air cooled pipes all the time.
no differnt than puting a vacustack cap or some other type of High wind cap.

I was genuinly shocked by that price. I had imagined something much more expensive, untill this thread i have never seen a class A stainless flashing.
You are absolutly right about the the lawsuit, one of the problems was that the cap that we were selling was not listed. Vacustacks are listed, and what i was selling wasnt, so thats a big oops on my part. (the cap was a AFL cap made of galvi steel with windbaffles) As of last week i no longer sell them. Im going to only stock vacustacks from now on. But no matter what we put up there we would have been sued. Well im off to dinner with mo and miss mo heat. They happen to be in my neck of the woods right now. Should be fun!

 

[hearthtools]

Yea, that would be it. There has been a long time battle between them and my buyer for some time. Its sucks, because i do like the ICC product line, they have some unique stuff.

Aes Rocks
I get personal attention and Im not a Large dealer
I buy my ICC Pipe, Duravent pellet and gaspipe , Paint, gasket, Enviro stoves, RSF fireplace, Vangard firplaces, liner material from them.

Two of my Reps from AES spend two 12 hours days helping me Build my showroom for my new store At No cost.,Even bough my emplyees and my wife dinner after we were done each night. and the Mantal and Cabinate owner came down from Washington to figure out how to set up my fireplaces faces.

 

[hearthtools]

i just don't understand why hart and Cooley don't make the flashing and collar in stainless looks like after a few years the pipe will look grey instead of nice and shinny. same go's for the support and the single wall adaptors. what do you guys think.

i think to be safe insurance wise i will have to use hart and Cooley flashing and collar. sucks also looks like to be safe in case i sell the house i will install a insulation shield Even though insulation wont be near the pipe and i don't need any more i put r38 up in the attic.

thanks
Jason

We only use the Galvalume pipe and flashing because they are paintable and the pipe cost about 15% less in galvalume

 

[elkimmeg]

First of all alumium and electrosisis is a non factor A lot or worring about nothing. Scientificaly a case could be made, I am not denying those facts. Field experience tells me there are a lot of alumium vent shoes in existance on almost every home. If I replace them while roofing, its not the alumium flange but for the rubber gasketing gets old. True there is a heat factor but you are using class A pipe.

Venting code; there is none, not wtitten in code books. If the pipe manufacturer specs venting is required, then it becomes code.
You have to go back and read the Class A chimney pipe installation manual. As nice as SS roofing vent flange looks, It is not the best practice to miss match accesaries from different manufacturer. Does the flange have installation instructions? Do they address possible venting requirements? You should be addressing these questions to the manufactures or person /company that sold you the roof flange? Care to comment Hearth tools? You know more about it than I do.


Appology to MSG and Rod:. I was resuested for imput via PM from Roster boy I clicked on the link and posted I did not see the lastest
responses you both supplied. Most of what I said has been addressed better than any imput from me. I added to this post in edit mode after I discovered the previous dissusions

 

[RoosterBoy]

thanks don and the word is in guys i called hart and Cooley they said that in order for our products to meet UL you must use all our products together and install them to our specifications. oh well so much for the nice stainless steel ;-) i tried.

thank you all for posting and helping me out

Jason

 

[Metal]

The pipe and flashing are tested "as a system" by UL. If you mix and match (even if both say UL Listed) you no longer have a UL Listed System, or a warranty for that matter. I know of no company that gets UL Listings for the use of competitors flashings. The venting, once again, is used by the manufacturer to release heat from the chase and, therebye, get lower Clearance to Combustables (2" for most companies, 1 1/2" for Metal-Fab).

 

[hearthtools]

Elk it is about time you chimed in. LOL
All manufactures are going to say dont use Brand B with our Brand A
for 2 reasons
They want to sell more stuff
and they want to cover their Butt.

Im a rebal I guess! I dont see any problem using a UL listed Flashing with that Is Brand A with Brand X
due to the flahing is just Formed Sheet metal with no Mechanical Parts and provided more that enough clearances.

Every day 1000's Class A pipe and zero clearance fireplace pipe is passed through Custom made chase caps that are not UL aproved or listed by the manufacure.

 

[RoosterBoy]

i agree with you 100% harthtools i think if it's listing for class (A) use then you should be able to use it with other class (A) products. im only going to buy hart and Cooley to protect my but in-case i ever do have a fire

thanks
Jason

 

[Metal]

It is not the manufacturers requirement, it is UL's. If you want a UL Tested System, it has to be tested as a system.