RTV setup time

[begreen]

begreen, when buying rope gasket from commercial sources, you'll see they're generally classified as "woven" or "braided". Sometimes they refer to woven as "soft" and braided as "dense" or "stiff". Looking at your gaskets, I wonder if that Meeco is braided, and the PE is woven. Is it indeed much softer and more flexible than the Meeco? If so, I believe the size difference might be accounting for the different compressed thicknesses of the two, as the woven gaskets much have a higher compression ratio (to relaxed diameter) to achieve the same seal.

I prefer the stiffer braided gaskets, as they're definitely more durable, but they're also pretty un-forgiving to installation error. They just don't compress as easily and nicely.

I think both the Meeco and PE gaskets are braided. The Meeco is what they call a "bronzed gasket" and it is very stiff. The PE gasket is medium density. It has a braided jacket around a straight fiber core.

There is only one part number for the PE Alderlea gasket, regardless of which model, part# 4880. I had a non-stock gasket in from last year and it sealed fine, but the glue failed and when I removed the gasket I wasn't impressed with it. It fell apart and was highly compressed. That gasket was a 3/8" graphite gasket from Amazon.

 

[Hogwildz]

PE uses high density gaskets, not the fluffy soft ones. At least in the Summit they do. I have used other gaskets with success, but for the Summit, they must be high density, as the Summit's knife edge will do short work of those soft gaskets.

 

[begreen]

On the Alderlea the gasket is different. There is no knife edge seal and it's a medium density gasket. Perhaps PE will change this in the future in prep for the 2020 requirements.

 

[Squisher]

Interesting stuff. I had thought they were the same material possibly. As they look the same, I guess due to the graphite. I clean more summit, super style PEs than anything else. Just happens to be the two stoves I have too. And I always admire the alderlea's I come across As they're beautiful stoves but their door gasket set up somehow seem less robust to me? I guess in my mind I see the knife edge giving a more positive seal? Obviously it works either way though. Flat or knife edge.

 

[begreen]

The Alderlea gasket seems pretty robust. Our first gasket lasted 7 yrs and probably could have gone another. The only issue I had with sealing was when I put in the true 5/16" Meeco gasket. That was stiffer and had fully 1/8" less contact surface. The Meeco gasket seems like a nice quality gasket material, just not right for this particular job.

 

[Highbeam]

All very comforting. All these wordings. But the question posted by Mr. DUMF remains: with all the angst about gasketing ( 1,2,10 years, who cares, it is a PITA ) --------
1. Has anyone used Permatex Red for complete full gaskets without the fibre gaskets ( we have used this on engines and exhaust systems ) ? AND
2. Why not manufacture PERMANENT 'rubber' or poly-whatever gaskets as are used in much more demanding applications ?
Curious minds................

How about a refrigerator style magnetic gasket? It would suck itself shut!

Asking engineers this question is not enough, you have to give them a problem to solve. Like, the fiber gasket sucks, what would be better?

 

[Squisher]

The Alderlea gasket seems pretty robust. Our first gasket lasted 7 yrs and probably could have gone another. The only issue I had with sealing was when I put in the true 5/16" Meeco gasket. That was stiffer and had fully 1/8" less contact surface. The Meeco gasket seems like a nice quality gasket material, just not right for this particular job.

Yah I don't know why but in my mind it seems the knife edge would seal more effectively than the flat? But I'm far from an engineer. Lol.

It's funny, I really like the alderleas now that I've worked on a few. I get pretty excited over seeing nice stoves/setups in customers homes now. And conversely I get quite disappointed when there's a poor or inefficient setup.

I've dealt with quite a few customers who are newer burners that just bought a house with a setup in it. Having no real idea what they've got. I've been the bearer of both good and bad news at times.

Back on topic though. Seven years seems like a really good lifespan of a door gasket to me. I'll be happy if my summit and super go that long. Possibly though the flat mating of the alderlea gasket provides better longevity than the knife edge set up?

 

[Elciteeve]

How about a refrigerator style magnetic gasket? It would suck itself shut!

Asking engineers this question is not enough, you have to give them a problem to solve. Like, the fiber gasket sucks, what would be better?

And that's exactly what I did. They came back with essentially that there isn't really a better solution. Although it seems to have started quite a topic as now many of the MEs have been coming up to me discussing the issue. One of them races motorcycles and says his exhaust runs consistently at 600 degrees, so he uses 700 degree rated RTV with excellent results, but other than that they all come back to the same result. The president of the company started as an engineer and he seems to only hire competent people. They're not stupid, and trust me they understand how stoves work. Some of them have even built their own stoves (To great success from what I hear.)

 

[DUMF]

OK, it's consensus time people.
For owners using near 100% wood stove heating 24/7, doors opening and closing a few times /day, and sometimes replacing gaskets every 1-2 years on some openings, and sometimes with larger sizes than OEM, what is the final vote ?
On too many stoves over decades heating, I've always used high density "impregnated" ( moderators: is this allowed ? ) gaskets with black Rutland gasket cement. Silicone had been tried but didn't hold well.
I never tried Permatex of any color on the stoves. We do use Red on diesels, and it holds fine. But, would it harden under the FG gaskets, making it a worse PITA than Rutland black to remove ?
And, could we use Red alone as a gasket for wood stove gasketing as we do sometimes in engines ?

Come now, none of this " I only have to change my gaskets every 20 years" stuff. This is what my EPA stoves need and what I do to make them run correctly--good or bad, it is reality for moi.

 

[Squisher]

I can't help much with that. This is only my second year heating with a EPA stove and I'd be bitterly disappointed if the gasket was shot by the end of this year on my summit. I never had the insert last year and even still the summit is the 24/7 burner.

My pre EPA Lakewood that heated this home for five years for me before the summit, now heats my shop with the same gasket on it that it came to me with. I never sweated gasket condition much with my pre EPA stoves as it never seemed to matter if the door leaked a bit.

It might be easier to qualify statements of gasket longevity more by how much wood goes through the stove rather than whether its primary heat or only heat or not. Seems wood consumption would be a more consistent measurement of use.

I'd say I put about 3-4 full cords through the summit a season. This year might be more, usually our winters are a lot milder. It was the perfect year for me to add the insert.

 

[Hogwildz]

OK, it's consensus time people.
For owners using near 100% wood stove heating 24/7, doors opening and closing a few times /day, and sometimes replacing gaskets every 1-2 years on some openings, and sometimes with larger sizes than OEM, what is the final vote ?
On too many stoves over decades heating, I've always used high density "impregnated" ( moderators: is this allowed ? ) gaskets with black Rutland gasket cement. Silicone had been tried but didn't hold well.
I never tried Permatex of any color on the stoves. We do use Red on diesels, and it holds fine. But, would it harden under the FG gaskets, making it a worse PITA than Rutland black to remove ?
And, could we use Red alone as a gasket for wood stove gasketing as we do sometimes in engines ?

Come now, none of this " I only have to change my gaskets every 20 years" stuff. This is what my EPA stoves need and what I do to make them run correctly--good or bad, it is reality for moi.

The RTV silicone alone will burn away by itself. It does work excellent as a gasket adhesive though. Whatever oozed out from behind the gasket burns off in time, the rest behind the gasket remains unaffected. I found it easier to clean off than hardened cement. A wire wheel and drill does a fine job, then clean up with rubbing alcohol, or brake cleaner. As was pointed out though, don't get the brake cleaner on the outer door paint. The key is getting the mating surface clean. I don't see wasting the money on Permatex, just buy a tube of high temp silicone, and regular silicone may work also.

 

[Ashful]

OK, it's consensus time people.
For owners using near 100% wood stove heating 24/7, doors opening and closing a few times /day, and sometimes replacing gaskets every 1-2 years on some openings, and sometimes with larger sizes than OEM, what is the final vote ?
On too many stoves over decades heating, I've always used high density "impregnated" ( moderators: is this allowed ? ) gaskets with black Rutland gasket cement. Silicone had been tried but didn't hold well.
I never tried Permatex of any color on the stoves. We do use Red on diesels, and it holds fine. But, would it harden under the FG gaskets, making it a worse PITA than Rutland black to remove ?
And, could we use Red alone as a gasket for wood stove gasketing as we do sometimes in engines ?

Come now, none of this " I only have to change my gaskets every 20 years" stuff. This is what my EPA stoves need and what I do to make them run correctly--good or bad, it is reality for moi.

Back when I was running multiple antique Jotul Firelights, with four gasketed doors on each, I grew to prefer the plain white braided industrial gasket rope. I tried the graphite gaskets a few times, but always found them a poor choice.

Simply put, I've never had a gasket internally fail, but I've had a few gasket adhesive failures. So, graphite reduces the likelihood of an internal gasket failure, which has never happened, while increasing likelihood of an adhesive failure, which is what always happens.

I used braided over woven, because that's what the Jotul manual specifies.

 

[bholler]

For owners using near 100% wood stove heating 24/7, doors opening and closing a few times /day,

I really dont know why you are so stuck on the 100% wood heat aspect of this. It really has absolutely no bearing at all on gasket wear. I load my stove just as often as you that is what matters. And honestly the only stoves Ihave ever worked on that go through gaskets that fast are vermont castings. The gaskets simply don't stay in place well. For them I have found the best adhesive is furnace cement. I have never found that it works well on other stoves but it works best on vc. But regardless something about their stove designs in addition to their many other flaws are horrible for gaskets.

 

[madison]

Thought I would add to this old thread while my Permatex RTV Red is drying. Adding some pictures, experiences (good and bad) and tips.

About 10 year old Pacific Energy T6, second door gasket change, and first window gasket change. Initial door gasket came loose during the first season. Unsuccessfully reglued the first time with Rutland "Clear" gasket adhesive - the Rutland Clear did not last as well, it became brittle, learned that the Rutland Clear has a lower heat rating - after two seasons of regluing the OEM gasket I decided to replace the Gasket.

I found a 3/8" graphite impregnated kit at Tractor Supply, purchased Rutland "Black" . The OEM/and Rutland Clear cleared and cleaned very easily, manually with a wire brush. Installed the 3/8" gasket using the Rutland Black - which was extremely thick black goo. This lasted for the past 6 years no failures in adhesive or gasket. Coincidentally, when reinstalling the door I recall having to make some changes in the the door latch and the door hinges. No big deal (I thought), I rationalized the gasket was slightly thinner. Stove performed pretty much as before, nothing noticeable.

Begreen's comments in a few threads regarding using OEM gaskets seemed to help him control his T6. So I decided to order both a door gasket and glass gasket. Purchased Rutland Red at Tractor Supply.

Started about 10 am this morning.

Removed door, removed window glass and lifted out the old window gasket. I put a couple of small squirts of WD40 on each of the 4 window retaining clips and removed the 4 screws without issues.

The Rutland Black was firmly adheared to the gasket channel with part of the old gasket embedded into the Rutland Black. Screw driver removed most, but I used a brass wire brush attached to my drill to remove the remainder. Rutland Black worked way better than the Rutland Clear. Vacuumed the channels and cleaned with brake cleaner that I squirted into a rag.

Replaced window glass by removing paper backing and adhering the gasket around the perimeter of glass.
TIP: You need approximately 65 inches of window gasket. Put the regasketed glass into place and replace the 4 retaining clips. I placed slight pressure on the glass and clip while tightening.

Now the door gasket. The Rutland Red has a "thinner" consistency than the Rutland Black. It was fairly easy to squirt out the 3 oz tube - too easy - the I overdid it. Tip: You only need less than about one ounce of the 3 oz tube. Starting at the lower hinge side corner, peel the paper back as you go carefully around the perimeter with out stretching and carefully round each corner without twists etc. I used masking tape as I went securing the gasket to the door frame which helped keep it from pulling.

Before I replaced the door onto the stove body. I took some masking tape and put it on the stove body where the new gasket (with too much Rutland Red) would be touching the stove for fear of the door getting stuck to the stove. I used some of the remaining Rutland Red to seal a loose bolt on the stove floor as well as healthy amount around the ash chute trap door as I believed both of these spots were leaking a bit of air into the stove. I do not use the ash chute, and even with it filled with ash, that area seemed to "glow" a bitter hotter than other areas.

Gonna let it sit for a half a day, temporarily open and closing. Then put an extra firebrick over the entire ash chute and bolt opening and build a small fire to further cure. Door hinge and latch will need to be fine tuned for the new gasket.

Now about three hours after applying the Rutland Red, it will not stick to your fingers when touched and begun to cure.

Major take home for me was the Rutland Black worked - Rutland Red was messy because I used too much.

 

[Lloyd the redneck]

I'll put in my 2 cents. As this thread was going on I coated my chimney joints in red rtv. One year later it is as good as new and the heat didn't bother it.