should i buy this stove...please help

[iceman]

guy i know wants to sell me vc defiant pre epa ruling it has the 8 inch flue ... he claims was the best stove ever made... however wife is making him get rid of it
he had a summit and someone bought that already (darn)
can anyone tell me about the defiant..
how do you like it ..is it worth spending 300 for if its in good shape?

 

[eernest4]

guy i know wants to sell me vc defiant pre epa ruling it has the 8 inch flue ... he claims was the best stove ever made... however wife is making him get rid of it
he had a summit and someone bought that already (darn)
can anyone tell me about the defiant..
how do you like it ..is it worth spending 300 for if its in good shape?

NO-DONT WASTE YOU MONEY --i THROUGH you were going to get an englander 50-30ncl

That defiant is either a non cat model , in which case it is an obsolete wood waster, as you put in 2/3 more wood for the same heat or it is a catalytic combustor model , which is one of the most complicated ,hardest to repair & most expensive to repair wood stove on the face of the planet. And THAT WAS BEFORE VC DOUBLED THEIR REPLACEMENT PARTS PRICES.

A catalytic defiant can be & usually is a nightmare to repair. They have more moving parts,more gaskets & they are cast iron sections with leaky gaskets between the sections to be replaced.

With a pre 1990 stove,at least 18 yrs old & probably 28 yrs old, what you are thinking about is like buying a 1990 car with a rusted out unibody frame & 290,000 miles & saying is it ok for me to drive this to california.That junker not ok to drive around the block & neither is the stove.

The answer is the same........... NO

*****************************************************

Why he getting rid of it,not his wife, what wrong with it??????? How much to repair, probably more that you pay for the stove.

I know because Billy Katis buy VC encore defiant for $30.oo , thats right ,thirty bucks,

& we lucky, if we do the work ourselves, to fix for $400.oo, REMEMBER VC DOUBLE THEIR REPAIR PARTS PRICES. stuff last yr ,like a replacement catalitic cumbustor, that used to cost 200.oo is now 400.oo, but we find out who mfg combustor for VC & buy for $129.95

Take advise from someone in the middle of helping a friend do a tear down & rebuild on a VC
big, time consuming, & expensive & lots of work PITA which I would never do for myself.
And i'm just helping him find parts & decide what to do & find out how to fix it. I'm not doing one stick od work on it but its still a major PITA

Buy englander 50-30ncp or summerheat 50-snc30lc

You can thank me later.

 

[iceman]

guy i know wants to sell me vc defiant pre epa ruling it has the 8 inch flue ... he claims was the best stove ever made... however wife is making him get rid of it
he had a summit and someone bought that already (darn)
can anyone tell me about the defiant..
how do you like it ..is it worth spending 300 for if its in good shape?

NO-DONT WASTE YOU MONEY --i THROUGH you were going to get an englander 50-30ncl

That defiant is either a non cat model , in which case it is an obsolete wood waster, as you put in 2/3 more wood for the same heat or it is a catalytic combustor model , which is one of the most complicated ,hardest to repair & most expensive to repair wood stove on the face of the planet. And THAT WAS BEFORE VC DOUBLED THEIR REPLACEMENT PARTS PRICES.

A catalytic defiant can be & usually is a nightmare to repair. They have more moving parts,more gaskets & they are cast iron sections with leaky gaskets between the sections to be replaced.

With a pre 1990 stove,at least 18 yrs old & probably 28 yrs old, what you are thinking about is like buying a 1990 car with a rusted out unibody frame & 290,000 miles & saying is it ok for me to drive this to california.That junker not ok to drive around the block & neither is the stove.

The answer is the same........... NO

*****************************************************

Why he getting rid of it,not his wife, what wrong with it??????? How much to repair, probably more that you pay for the stove.

I know because Billy Katis buy VC encore defiant for $30.oo , thats right ,thirty bucks,

& we lucky, if we do the work ourselves, to fix for $400.oo, REMEMBER VC DOUBLE THEIR REPAIR PARTS PRICES. stuff last yr ,like a replacement catalitic cumbustor, that used to cost 200.oo is now 400.oo, but we find out who mfg combustor for VC & buy for $129.95

Take advise from someone in the middle of helping a friend do a tear down & rebuild on a VC
big, time consuming, & expensive & lots of work PITA which I would never do for myself.
And i'm just helping him find parts & decide what to do & find out how to fix it. I'm not doing one stick od work on it but its still a major PITA

Buy englander 50-30ncp or summerheat 50-snc30lc

You can thank me later.

thanks you just scared the S### outta me... i am having issues trying to fit the 30 in my fireplace as of right now i believe its to deep and thats without the blower ..
i measured it at 31 inches and by the time i add the blower i believe it will add at least 2-3 more ...

 

[begreen]

For the right price, if the old Defiant is in primo condition, I wouldn't mind it as a second stove, assuming you need such a beast. It's a serious heater and a stout, but pretty simple stove. The parts are available from other sources besides VC. Most important is it's condition and the asking price.

 

[eernest4]

For the right price, if the old Defiant is in primo condition, I wouldn't mind it as a second stove, assuming you need such a beast.

It's a serious heater and a stout, but pretty simple stove.

The parts are available from other sources besides VC. Most important is it's condition and the asking price.

I'm not all that sure about the differances between the defiant that iceman is looking at & the encore defiant that Billy bought,but there is nothing simple about the encore defiant catalitic combuster stove. It s every bit of the nightmare I described, and mabe, but I hope not,thensome.

If the defiant is a non cat pre epa simple beast,then its a wood waster & iceman would do better with the englander 50-30ncl secondary burn stove.

I dont like cast iron, not as durable as steel with gasketed joints to leak where the cast iron segments are bolted together, that steel stoves don't even have. Just someelse to go wrong that one need no have to deal with if one is more carefull in his purchases.

Only way I'd buy a cast iron stove was if it was that or freeze. Give me steel please & thank you.

 

[begreen]

I was going to trade my late 70's vigilant for a face cord of wood this summer. Am I letting it go for too cheap?

And sorry, don't mean to hijack the thread

The original VC stoves were solid performers. As to value, you have to decide that for yourself. If the stove is in excellent condition, then maybe trade for a full cord instead?

 

[myzamboni]

[quote author="i
thanks you just scared the S### outta me... i am having issues trying to fit the 30 in my fireplace as of right now i believe its to deep and thats without the blower ..
i measured it at 31 inches and by the time i add the blower i believe it will add at least 2-3 more ...

Dear Iceman,
YOU Don't need to have issues fitting the englander 30 into your fire place. It is a BAD IDEA.
PLEASE, YOU PICKED A GREAT STOVE ,DON'T HOG TIE IT WITH A BAD INSTALL. How could I wash dishes with both my hands tied behind my back & how can a stove heat to its full potential surrounded by a fireplace full of bricks that stop radiation & convection & soak up heat like a sponge.

In fact, I would recommend AGAINST DOING THAT.
Setting a stove into a fireplace opening is & always has been , a bad idea.

The heat gets trapped inside the fireplace & wastes its energy heating up the fireplace brick & you also loose the radiant energy from the back,top,bottom & both sides of the stove, all trapped inside the fire place & giving up 40% of its heat to the fireplace brick before some lukewarm air eventually makes it out into the room.

There are many ,many beautiful installs of stoves IN FRONT OF FIREPLACES ,where the fireplace is bricked off with just the stove pipe running in just under the top of the fireplace.

This way, heat is free to radiate in all directions & from every surface of the stove & the blower will do a better job for you. You can even put a 24 inch box fan behind the stove and aim it where you want it to blow a ton of hot air for you.

So why knock yourself out trying to fit a stove into an insulating box,its not a pizza that you have to keep warm while you are delevering it, after all.

It is a heat radiating machine, so leave it stick out in front of the fireplace where it can do its job ,radiate heat unobstructed.

You don't drive around with a cardboard in front of your car radiator, do you, so don't stick your stove in a brick heat sink insulating box.

If you do stick your stove inside the fire place you will truly end up being ..................the Blue Iceman, in more ways than one.
****************************************************************
When it can to the choice,in my house, of the 6 foot couch or a place to install my pellet stove in the living room, the couch disappeared the day before the stove arrived.

My mom came out yelling & screaming, where is my couch. I paid $50.oo for that 15 years ago. Mom, we had robbers last nite but they got scared when i came down with my shotgun & ran away but they already took the couch out to their truck & were ready to take some thing else.. But here is 50.oo so you can buy yourself something nice.

I don't think she bought it but she stop yelling & next day when the pellet stove arrive, I think she figured it out for herself. about a month later,she ask me where is my couch,The Dump!
was all I said.[/quote]

Paging BrotherBart. :roll:

 

[eernest4]

[quote author="i
thanks you just scared the S### outta me... i am having issues trying to fit the 30 in my fireplace as of right now i believe its to deep and thats without the blower ..
i measured it at 31 inches and by the time i add the blower i believe it will add at least 2-3 more ...[/quote]

Dear Iceman,
YOU Don't need to have issues fitting the englander 30 into your fire place. It is a BAD IDEA.
PLEASE, YOU PICKED A GREAT STOVE ,DON'T HOG TIE IT WITH A BAD INSTALL. How could I wash dishes with both my hands tied behind my back & how can a stove heat to its full potential surrounded by a fireplace full of bricks that stop radiation & convection & soak up heat like a sponge.


In fact, I would recommend AGAINST DOING THAT.
Setting a stove into a fireplace opening is & always has been , a bad idea.

The heat gets trapped inside the fireplace & wastes its energy heating up the fireplace brick & you also loose the radiant energy from the back,top,bottom & both sides of the stove, all trapped inside the fire place & giving up 40% of its heat to the fireplace brick before some lukewarm air eventually makes it out into the room.

There are many ,many beautiful installs of stoves IN FRONT OF FIREPLACES ,where the fireplace is bricked off with just the stove pipe running in just under the top of the fireplace.

This way, heat is free to radiate in all directions & from every surface of the stove & the blower will do a better job for you. You can even put a 24 inch box fan behind the stove and aim it where you want it to blow a ton of hot air for you.

So why knock yourself out trying to fit a stove into an insulating box,its not a pizza that you have to keep warm while you are delevering it, after all.

It is a heat radiating machine, so leave it stick out in front of the fireplace where it can do its job ,radiate heat unobstructed.

You don't drive around with a cardboard in front of your car radiator, do you, so don't stick your stove in a brick heat sink insulating box.

If you do stick your stove inside the fire place you will truly end up being ..................the Blue Iceman, in more ways than one.
****************************************************************
When it can to the choice,in my house, of the 6 foot couch or a place to install my pellet stove in the living room, the couch disappeared the day before the stove arrived.

My mom came out yelling & screaming, where is my couch. I paid $50.oo for that 15 years ago. Mom, we had robbers last nite but they got scared when i came down with my shotgun & ran away but they already took the couch out to their truck & were ready to take some thing else.. But here is 50.oo so you can buy yourself something nice.

I don't think she bought it but she stop yelling & next day when the pellet stove arrive, I think she figured it out for herself. about a month later,she ask me where is my couch,The Dump!
was all I said.

 

[grizzly2]

The old VC stoves were made of very good cast iron (melted down engine blocks). While not as efficient as new stoves, neither do you have to replace cat. combusers. If it is in good all-round condition, I think $150 would be reasonable. :smirk:

 

[begreen]

Bigcube, can you check your system date and clock? Im showing you posting 11 months ago. Though maybe this is a hearth system glitch??

Bigcube --> Posted: 11 months, 4 weeks, 2 days, 9 hours, 56 minutes ago

 

[Bigcube]

I was going to trade my late 70's vigilant for a face cord of wood this summer. Am I letting it go for too cheap?

And sorry, don't mean to hijack the thread

 

[Bigcube]

Bigcube, can you check your system date and clock? Im showing you posting 11 months ago. Though maybe this is a hearth system glitch??

Bigcube --> Posted: 11 months, 4 weeks, 2 days, 9 hours, 56 minutes ago

must be a system glitch, my clock is correct and the post time on my post is correct. And how did your post show up above mine?
My post "Posted: 08 March 2008 09:55 PM"
your post "Posted: 08 March 2008 09:53 PM"

???

 

[begreen]

Totally weird. It's our own Hearth.com twilight zone moment. Good thing tonight is daylight saving time.... I think.

 

[brooktrout]

Totally weird. It's our own Hearth.com twilight zone moment. Good thing tonight is daylight saving time.... I think.

We're not in Kansas anymore.... hh:

 

[iceman]

[quote author="i
thanks you just scared the S### outta me... i am having issues trying to fit the 30 in my fireplace as of right now i believe its to deep and thats without the blower ..
i measured it at 31 inches and by the time i add the blower i believe it will add at least 2-3 more ...

Dear Iceman,
YOU Don't need to have issues fitting the englander 30 into your fire place. It is a BAD IDEA.
PLEASE, YOU PICKED A GREAT STOVE ,DON'T HOG TIE IT WITH A BAD INSTALL. How could I wash dishes with both my hands tied behind my back & how can a stove heat to its full potential surrounded by a fireplace full of bricks that stop radiation & convection & soak up heat like a sponge.

In fact, I would recommend AGAINST DOING THAT.
Setting a stove into a fireplace opening is & always has been , a bad idea.

The heat gets trapped inside the fireplace & wastes its energy heating up the fireplace brick & you also loose the radiant energy from the back,top,bottom & both sides of the stove, all trapped inside the fire place & giving up 40% of its heat to the fireplace brick before some lukewarm air eventually makes it out into the room.

There are many ,many beautiful installs of stoves IN FRONT OF FIREPLACES ,where the fireplace is bricked off with just the stove pipe running in just under the top of the fireplace.

This way, heat is free to radiate in all directions & from every surface of the stove & the blower will do a better job for you. You can even put a 24 inch box fan behind the stove and aim it where you want it to blow a ton of hot air for you.

So why knock yourself out trying to fit a stove into an insulating box,its not a pizza that you have to keep warm while you are delevering it, after all.

It is a heat radiating machine, so leave it stick out in front of the fireplace where it can do its job ,radiate heat unobstructed.

You don't drive around with a cardboard in front of your car radiator, do you, so don't stick your stove in a brick heat sink insulating box.

If you do stick your stove inside the fire place you will truly end up being ..................the Blue Iceman, in more ways than one.
****************************************************************
When it can to the choice,in my house, of the 6 foot couch or a place to install my pellet stove in the living room, the couch disappeared the day before the stove arrived.

My mom came out yelling & screaming, where is my couch. I paid $50.oo for that 15 years ago. Mom, we had robbers last nite but they got scared when i came down with my shotgun & ran away but they already took the couch out to their truck & were ready to take some thing else.. But here is 50.oo so you can buy yourself something nice.

I don't think she bought it but she stop yelling & next day when the pellet stove arrive, I think she figured it out for herself. about a month later,she ask me where is my couch,The Dump!
was all I said.

Paging BrotherBart. :roll:[/quote]


my chimney is an interior, it is made out of some kinda stone that i have not seen before but its really nice, the chimney is over 8' wide
it is in my basement and it would not look right with a gigantic stove in front of it.. besides then it would be in the way as the fireplace shares the wall with a built in grill ... so i was hoping to keep it inside, if what you are telling me is true, then i will do an insert. i was hoping that with a fan blower it would move the air and heat the stone thus having a hot wall to give off heat long after the fire has gone down/out

 

[BrotherBart]

Paging BrotherBart. :roll:

my chimney is an interior, it is made out of some kinda stone that i have not seen before but its really nice, the chimney is over 8' wide
it is in my basement and it would not look right with a gigantic stove in front of it.. besides then it would be in the way as the fireplace shares the wall with a built in grill ... so i was hoping to keep it inside, if what you are telling me is true, then i will do an insert. i was hoping that with a fan blower it would move the air and heat the stone thus having a hot wall to give off heat long after the fire has gone down/out

Mine is half way in the fireplace on the main level and the biggest challenge is keeping the house under 80 degrees. Of course we have different weather. Different strokes for different folks.

What I do know is that I had the opportunity two weeks ago to pick up a new in the crate Jotul C450 insert for $750 nine miles from here to put in that fireplace instead of the 30 and I said thank you, but no thank you.

 

[lobsta1]

As far as in a fireplace; I have an old Russo smoke dragon installed in a wall-to-wall fieldstone fireplace. For a fan, I placed a computer 4" muffin fan into
an 8" elbow & bolted that to the back of the Russo. This is a direct connect into an exterior brick chimney. (When I hook up my new Englander 13, it will be
with a full insulated flexliner). This is in an old 1874 ballon construction mansard. That stove is the sole heat. I've used about 30 gallons of oil since last Nov.
Only turn on the boiler when it gets below about 12 degrees. That is so the pipes would not freeze in the basement. When it is above 30 degrees, I turn the muffin fan off.
Al

 

[iceman]

Paging BrotherBart. :roll:

my chimney is an interior, it is made out of some kinda stone that i have not seen before but its really nice, the chimney is over 8' wide
it is in my basement and it would not look right with a gigantic stove in front of it.. besides then it would be in the way as the fireplace shares the wall with a built in grill ... so i was hoping to keep it inside, if what you are telling me is true, then i will do an insert. i was hoping that with a fan blower it would move the air and heat the stone thus having a hot wall to give off heat long after the fire has gone down/out

Mine is half way in the fireplace on the main level and the biggest challenge is keeping the house under 80 degrees. Of course we have different weather. Different strokes for different folks.

What I do know is that I had the opportunity two weeks ago to pick up a new in the crate Jotul C450 insert for $750 nine miles from here to put in that fireplace instead of the 30 and I said thank you, but no thank you.

750 geez tell em you'll take it
i 'll be down in the beginning of july!

 

[snydley]

if the old Defiant is in primo condition, It's a serious heater and a stout, but pretty simple stove. The parts are available from other sources besides VC. .

I have a V.C Resolute,(pre 1988) and am in need of some parts. Would these other sources have parts for it? Where can I find these sources? Are they on the Internet?
I'd just as soon stay away from VC dealers and their prices if I can find the parts elsewhere for a better price.
Thanks,
Snyde

 

[begreen]

(broken link removed to http://www.blackswanhome.com/category/stove-parts)

(broken link removed to http://mazzeosinc.com/product.asp?Product_Id=130624&d_Id=5258&l1=5258&l2;=)

 

[snydley]

http://www.blackswanhome.com/category/stove-parts

(broken link removed to http://mazzeosinc.com/product.asp?Product_Id=130624&d_Id=5258&l1=5258&l2;=)

Thanks so much for the links!
Snyde