I currently have an All Nighter Big Moe in the house I bought (1200 sq ft ranch). The wood stove is in the unfinished basement in the center of the house. It does a good job at heating the whole house (we use the wood stove as the main heat source) but seems to blow thru wood. I've been burning since mid Oct and already have used 3 cords of wood (seasoned hardwood, located in Western MA). Would replacing it with a modern wood stove be worth it? Any idea how much wood i would save if say i got a blaze king?
Should I upgrade my wood stove?
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A modern stove will definitely save wood. How much will still depend on the same variables that affect the Moe's consumption. They are: building heat loss, outside temps, wood species, stove operation, etc.
Are the basement walls insulated?
Are the basement walls insulated?
The basement walls are not insulated. I plan on insulating them in the next year or two to help with heat loss. Having the windows in the house replaced at the end of the month as they are horribly drafty. Also had the attic air sealed and additional insulation added as well as air sealing and insulation around the rim joists in the basement.
That's where a cord of wood has gone to so far this year, heating the outdoors through the basement walls. You will get the quickest return on investment by insulating them. By insulating the walls and sealing up the sill plate all the way around the consumption of wood burned will be reduced up to a third.
Good to know. Think rigid foam board is my best bet for insulation?
A blaze king will save the most wood if you can run it on low. If you need to free the btus to heat the house, you’ll be going through the wood.
Great plan!
Stock up on future firewood now. Any new stove make/model will require much drier fuel than your current model for expected performance. Just a heads up.
3 cords of wood for essentially 2 floors (2400sqft) over 3 months isn't that bad in MASS, but a new stove will deliver clean burning, longer in between loading and will be a safe investment too. Not to take away from insulating where you can, that'll only add to your advantage. But with new stove, ensure good dry seasoned wood, or no one (you nor your stove) will be happy... December was cold here in CT, (and I'm getting older too....). Stay warm.
NickW
Minister of Fire
When I switched from an old smoke dragon to a tube stove I went from 5-7 cord of hardwood not effectively heating to about 4 cord of 2/3 hardwood and 1/3 low quality wood pretty effectively heating the old house.
As @moresnow states, get ahead on the wood supply. My first year with the tube stove was a challenge because my wood supply wasn't what it should have been. I busted my butt getting ahead and burned mostly ash and beech the following winter and it was much better. By the third burning season I was able to start burning 2 year old sugar maple. 3 years ahead is the golden rule. I segregate firewood by seasoning times. Oak is always stacked separately. 2 year seasoning woods like sugar maple, birch, ironwood and locusts get stacked together. Beech I tried to keep separate because it seasons quick and is better than the other 1 year seasoning woods. Ash, red maple and cherry get stacked together. White ash is way better than black or green. Pine, aspen, silver maple and box elder together... Once you get 3 years ahead you could probably combine some of it more, but it's nice to know where your shoulder season vs everyday hardwood wood versus premiums are...
Catalytic stoves have more controllable heat versus tube stoves but are more pricey and have a bit more maintenance required.
As @moresnow states, get ahead on the wood supply. My first year with the tube stove was a challenge because my wood supply wasn't what it should have been. I busted my butt getting ahead and burned mostly ash and beech the following winter and it was much better. By the third burning season I was able to start burning 2 year old sugar maple. 3 years ahead is the golden rule. I segregate firewood by seasoning times. Oak is always stacked separately. 2 year seasoning woods like sugar maple, birch, ironwood and locusts get stacked together. Beech I tried to keep separate because it seasons quick and is better than the other 1 year seasoning woods. Ash, red maple and cherry get stacked together. White ash is way better than black or green. Pine, aspen, silver maple and box elder together... Once you get 3 years ahead you could probably combine some of it more, but it's nice to know where your shoulder season vs everyday hardwood wood versus premiums are...
Catalytic stoves have more controllable heat versus tube stoves but are more pricey and have a bit more maintenance required.
I would clarify that to "some catalytic stoves". Many cat stoves these days are hybrids that get quite hot. Additionally, a properly run, non-cat, convective stove is quite controllable in heat output.
NickW
Minister of Fire
My point was supposed to be that a catalyst stove is much better at running low and slow than a tube stove because they have heat output settings.
I've never run a cat stove, but when guys are posting about 36 hour burn cycles on low with a cat stove I get jealous... No "slave to the stove". Ain't doing that with a tube stove with the same load of wood, or any load of wood. Can you run a tube stove with low heat output? Sure, if you want to put 3 pieces in every 3-4 hours or do a cold start every time...
But up there you'd freeze if you run it low and slow.
Many folks running a 3 cuft BK box down in 8-10 hrs because they need the heat. No gain there. (Other than an even heat - I just had a 20.5 hr run where the last 8 hrs had a constant 300 F flue temp, don't know what it was the 11 hrs before that; the first hr it ran about 400-450. But it was 38 for the high, and sunny.)
Of course once you reach the shoulder season (when it's summer here ;-) ), it's nice to run low for 24 hrs or more.
Or you run the mini split.
Many folks running a 3 cuft BK box down in 8-10 hrs because they need the heat. No gain there. (Other than an even heat - I just had a 20.5 hr run where the last 8 hrs had a constant 300 F flue temp, don't know what it was the 11 hrs before that; the first hr it ran about 400-450. But it was 38 for the high, and sunny.)
Of course once you reach the shoulder season (when it's summer here ;-) ), it's nice to run low for 24 hrs or more.
Or you run the mini split.
Eveness of heat depends on a lot of factors in addition to how the stove is run. Stove location, house design, number of floors, insulation level, outside temps, etc. can affect the eveness of heating. Many of us use a heat pump these days for the low and slow requirement. For our home, heating with wood starts when it gets below 45º outside. At 40-45º we are burning smaller fires to maintain an even heat. Below that temp we can run the stove with full loads and regulate it nicely so that the room temp swing is quite modest, about 3-4º in the stove room and second floor, 1-2º on the rest of the first floor. The upstairs hallway gets a good rush of hot air when we are burning due to a large open stairwell.
We had wide temp swings with the F400 due to its shorter burn cycle and high radiance. That is not an issue in our house with the T6 with its larger firebox and much greater mass. It can run for about 12 hrs at a lower 450º stove temp or about 8 hrs at a higher 600-650º stove temp. If pushed, it can go hotter but we don't need that too often, some years, not at all. With this setup, our home temps are very much like with a thermostatically regulated stove.
We had wide temp swings with the F400 due to its shorter burn cycle and high radiance. That is not an issue in our house with the T6 with its larger firebox and much greater mass. It can run for about 12 hrs at a lower 450º stove temp or about 8 hrs at a higher 600-650º stove temp. If pushed, it can go hotter but we don't need that too often, some years, not at all. With this setup, our home temps are very much like with a thermostatically regulated stove.
Is that a cat stove thing or just a blaze king thing? What other cat stoves have a thermostat?
In modern stoves, BK and VC stoves use thermostatic regulation. The VC Aspen C3 has secondary air thermostat. There have been others in the past, but not too many now.
NickW
Minister of Fire
Exactly my point. In MA a cat stove might be a good option for him. In our cold temperatures the benefit of a cat stove is negligible. I suffer through shoulder season with cold starts morning and night with smaller loads or pine & aspen. I did meet an older fellow up here who has a VC and likes it.
Don't know. I may be making an incorrect assumption that they all do.
The new place is much better at maintaining a more even temperature than the old place due to the above mentioned reasons. No more 80 degrees in the lower level and 60 in the upper bedrooms...
I have a BK and a noncat NC30. You don't need a thermostat to run a cat stove low and slow. Some cat stoves such as those from Woodstock can be run low and slow with a fixed air control setting. The IS has a single air control lever (though it has a weird tertiary air bimettalic thing) can be burned nearly 24 hours on one load forum members report.
Luckily I don't have to run my cat stove that hard but the noncat can burn through 3.5 cubic feet of wood in just a few hours. Like three. Back to back loads, like your stuffing a locomotive! and supposedly the noncats are most efficient at high output.
Most people don't run their stoves that way. It takes a ton of heat to warm up a cold pole building. If the cat stove was in there it would chew through wood about as quickly run wide open.
I don't think my stove can do that in 4 hrs.
All this just shows that the output range of most (not saying all...) tube stoves has an upper end that is higher than (my) cat stove can do. And that (my) cat stove has a lower output end that (most) tube stoves can't do.
Is all...
Output = fuel input divided by the hrs to burn it down, times an efficiency factor.
All this just shows that the output range of most (not saying all...) tube stoves has an upper end that is higher than (my) cat stove can do. And that (my) cat stove has a lower output end that (most) tube stoves can't do.
Is all...
Output = fuel input divided by the hrs to burn it down, times an efficiency factor.
Agreed. Even in the coldest weather I haven't burned through a stove load of wood that quickly. 6 hrs is about the shortest I recall for burning through a full load. That's around the shortest I have heard for a BK stove being pushed hard for heat too.
NickW
Minister of Fire
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