Smell won't go away on new stove

webby3650

Master of Fire
Sep 2, 2008
10,195
Indiana
Ok, time for an update. I burned again today, and alas, the smell is back just as strong as ever. I have already placed an email to my installer and am hoping to get them out. If burning near 700 for as many hours as I did didn't solve it, then I don't know what will. To say I'm frustrated is an understatement.

On another issue, while I have them out I'm going to ask about the noises the stove makes. I haven't mentioned it to this point because the smell was far more concerning to me. Please take a look at the following video and let me know if these cracking/creaking noises are normal. First, some extra info:
- The noises are there for most of the duration of the burn, so I don't think they're the normal expansion/contraction noises.
- They seem more common and frequent if I have some of the air intakes open
- They seem to be related to airflow. Often when I open the door, close the door, change one of the airflow knobs, etc, that drastically changes the amount of noise.


You can see in the video the huge change in knocking when I sealed the door shut (at the start of the video, the door was slightly open, then I locked it down). Even without the fire getting bigger/smaller in that short time (and thus, this shouldn't just be expansion/contraction), the amount of noise drastically increased.

I'm assuming when they come out, they're going to tell me these noises are perfectly normal and will explain it by saying it's expansion/contraction. So, I guess my main question is, is that true?

Thanks again all.
The noises are normal for a steel stove. When you increase/decrease the air or open the door you are changing the temperature in the firebox. It happens, I also know that the sounds are greatly exaggerated on a video than in real life. I have taken several videos of my stoves over the years, I only noticed the ticking in the video, not so much in real time.
 
Jan 3, 2017
122
South East
The noises are normal for a steel stove. When you increase/decrease the air or open the door you are changing the temperature in the firebox. It happens, I also know that the sounds are greatly exaggerated on a video than in real life. I have taken several videos of my stoves over the years, I only noticed the ticking in the video, not so much in real time.
Well, I don't know about steel stoves so much, but if it makes the OP feel any better, my Progress Hybrid pings and makes creaking noises all the time. It has been doing it since it was brand new with no ill effects that I have observed. Watch, now that I have said that, the damn stove will collapse right on my hearth.
 

webby3650

Master of Fire
Sep 2, 2008
10,195
Indiana
Well, I don't know about steel stoves so much, but if it makes the OP feel any better, my Progress Hybrid pings and makes creaking noises all the time. It has been doing it since it was brand new with no ill effects that I have observed.
Certainly doesn't hurt anything.
The PH has a steel firebox under the stone correct?
 
Jan 3, 2017
122
South East
Certainly doesn't hurt anything.
The PH has a steel firebox under the stone correct?
You know I could be totally wrong, but I believe the stove is soapstone with a cast iron frame. The plate on the ceiling for the secondaries is stainless steel I believe.
 

moresnow

Minister of Fire
Jan 13, 2015
885
Iowa
They did spraypaint the stovepipe at the end of install.
Ask the installer what they used for paint. I've only installed a handful of stoves but never had to re-apply fresh paint? Seems a bit odd to me? Double wall with odd ball paint perhaps? I get that smell when I turn mine down to early (want to leave the house etc.) Believe my stink comes from the cat temp probe. Possibly. Never lasts to long or causes the missus to complain:) I understand my unit is different. Shooting from the hip here! Don't give up...
 

webby3650

Master of Fire
Sep 2, 2008
10,195
Indiana
Ask the installer what they used for paint. I've only installed a handful of stoves but never had to re-apply fresh paint? Seems a bit odd to me? Double wall with odd ball paint perhaps? I get that smell when I turn mine down to early (want to leave the house etc.) Believe my stink comes from the cat temp probe. Possibly. Never lasts to long or causes the missus to complain:) I understand my unit is different. Shooting from the hip here! Don't give up...
We need to do some touch up paint on nearly every new install. In particular, double wall pipe slip sections will scratch when slipped. Often times stoves have cardboard rub too that needs touched up.
 

Squisher

Minister of Fire
Nov 1, 2015
1,623
vernon BC, Canada
That did sound pretty loud in the vid to me. But my stove pings and dings a bit too.

I have the same washer or dryer too. Lol.
 

rdust

Minister of Fire
Feb 9, 2009
4,525
Michigan
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rdust

Minister of Fire
Feb 9, 2009
4,525
Michigan
You know I could be totally wrong, but I believe the stove is soapstone with a cast iron frame. The plate on the ceiling for the secondaries is stainless steel I believe.
Totally wrong. ;) Fireview and keystone are built that way along with others I figure. PH is what I consider their first steel stove. :)
 

mincus

New Member
Oct 28, 2016
48
Missouri
Well, here is the first official reply from them:

"Thank you for the information. What you are describing, does not sound abnormal. We get a chemical smell from time to time when we burn our 2 demo models here. But just to be sure, I forwarded your email to management. Soon as I get word back, I will contact you with the information I get."

To say I'm angry is probably an understatement. I don't know if this is the setup to convince me that it's all normal or what. I just can't imagine that everytime someone burns a stove, their entire house is supposed to smell like this (it spreads throughout the entire house, except the bedrooms upstairs since we close off the doors). Every time we burn, we end up opening up all the windows, putting a fan in one, and sucking all the stink out. It's that bad. My thought is, if their store always stunk like this, I don't think they would ever sell a single stove. I know I sure wouldn't have bought one.

So, is there any truth to what he is saying? Is this in any way "normal?" Should a properly installed stove ever have ANY smell (with the exception of a whiff of smoke every now and then when you open the door)?

Any thoughts on where I should go from here? I'm so frustrated!!!!! It's two months in and I just want to burn my beautiful new stove!!!
 

Attaboy

Member
Jan 2, 2017
173
The great white north
Well, here is the first official reply from them:

"Thank you for the information. What you are describing, does not sound abnormal. We get a chemical smell from time to time when we burn our 2 demo models here. But just to be sure, I forwarded your email to management. Soon as I get word back, I will contact you with the information I get."

So, is there any truth to what he is saying? Is this in any way "normal?" Should a properly installed stove ever have ANY smell (with the exception of a whiff of smoke every now and then when you open the door)?
Well bull, have burned with several stoves, once the stove and flue paints remit their chemicals to the air and the paints, gaskets, adhesives etc. cure and set after 3 burns or so there is no smell, boy what bloody hogwash.

Other than the smoke smell every so often from opening the door too quickly '' THERE IS NO SMELL '' and should be no smell except the odour of wood burning.
 
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webby3650

Master of Fire
Sep 2, 2008
10,195
Indiana
Forgive me if it's been covered already.
You are sure that it's not a smoke smell? Perhaps your draft is poor and you are experiencing some leakage? Smoke that has passed through the secondary combustion system smells way different than just straight smoke that's been spilled from the loading door.

After the first few fires there shouldn't be any smells so bad you would need to air out the house.
 
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Attaboy

Member
Jan 2, 2017
173
The great white north
I looked at manual online and I didn't see wht temp they considered over fire for your stove. Unless I overlooked it. But condor fluegard is a good one for double wall that's what I have. It's probe type. Drill a hole on and it's held secure by magnet View attachment 192697
I am also using a Condar FLUEGARD with probe for double wall pipe, it is the best I have used out of three purchased specifically for double wall pipe.

SAM_1991.jpg
 
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Blowndiffuser

Member
Jan 7, 2016
38
UK
Just a thought, it could be burning dust that you're smelling if the stove is not being used everyday? If I don't run my stove for a few days it gives of a metallic kind of smell from the dust burning off. Doesn't last that long but the strength of smell depends on how long the stove has not been used.
 
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tpenny67

New Member
Dec 17, 2016
82
New England
My Lopi does give off a "hot stove" smell when it gets really hot (over 700), and I do think it is due to dust baking off. It's not objectionable and I don't have to open any windows.

It also makes similar noises as those in the video when it's heating or cooling rapidly, but is generally quiet at a steady temperature.

My old Jotul 118 is being replaced with a Quad 4300 next week, so I really hope the smell is not a Quad thing.
 

mincus

New Member
Oct 28, 2016
48
Missouri
Well bull, have burned with several stoves, once the stove and flue paints remit their chemicals to the air and the paints, gaskets, adhesives etc. cure and set after 3 burns or so there is no smell, boy what bloody hogwash.

Other than the smoke smell every so often from opening the door too quickly '' THERE IS NO SMELL '' and should be no smell except the odour of wood burning.
That's kinda what I'm thinking. I just don't get it. I guess I need to dig in my heals and prepare for a fight? We'll see what "management" says.

Forgive me if it's been covered already.
You are sure that it's not a smoke smell? Perhaps your draft is poor and you are experiencing some leakage? Smoke that has passed through the secondary combustion system smells way different than just straight smoke that's been spilled from the loading door.

After the first few fires there shouldn't be any smells so bad you would need to air out the house.
No, I'm not sure. I've pondered that before. I went to the stove pipe up on the roof and the smell is semi-similar. I could imagine that could be the case, but I just don't know. There's not at all a "smoky" smell to it. It's much more of a sweet smell (if that makes any sense). I think I have a pretty good draft, but I'm new at all this, so I'm not 100% sure. I do know the stove pipe gets pretty darn hot. And the smell actually gets worse as the fire gets bigger (I would think it would be opposite if it was a draft problem??)

The smell seems to come mostly from the stovetop, particularly out of the top "shelf" part of the unit (it's the step-top model). I'm planning on taking off the back cover to see if maybe something got put in there (this was a floor unit that was on the floor, but not burned, for a couple years).

Just a thought, it could be burning dust that you're smelling if the stove is not being used everyday? If I don't run my stove for a few days it gives of a metallic kind of smell from the dust burning off. Doesn't last that long but the strength of smell depends on how long the stove has not been used.
No, I've burned before for days on end with the same smell. I can't imagine a little bit of dust could make our entire house smell. And it generally lasts for the duration of the fire.

My Lopi does give off a "hot stove" smell when it gets really hot (over 700), and I do think it is due to dust baking off. It's not objectionable and I don't have to open any windows.

It also makes similar noises as those in the video when it's heating or cooling rapidly, but is generally quiet at a steady temperature.

My old Jotul 118 is being replaced with a Quad 4300 next week, so I really hope the smell is not a Quad thing.
For your sake, I sure hope not.
 

jatoxico

Minister of Fire
Aug 8, 2011
4,067
Long Island NY
Can't say from the inter-web if the smell is paint or what. I know that slight weird chemically smell when you hit very high temps especially first of the season and have sometimes caught a whiff from outside and I don't think I'd mistake that for paint or paint for smoke.

The stove should not be giving off any significant smell from uncured paints and should not be leaking smoke/exhaust so either way the dealer should work on fixing that.

Going on the assumption that its as bad as you say (cannot run stove w/o opening window) then stick to your guns. If they start getting wishy washy I would make clear that you consider this a potential health and safety issue. Just my opinion.
 

webby3650

Master of Fire
Sep 2, 2008
10,195
Indiana
That's kinda what I'm thinking. I just don't get it. I guess I need to dig in my heals and prepare for a fight? We'll see what "management" says.



No, I'm not sure. I've pondered that before. I went to the stove pipe up on the roof and the smell is semi-similar. I could imagine that could be the case, but I just don't know. There's not at all a "smoky" smell to it. It's much more of a sweet smell (if that makes any sense). I think I have a pretty good draft, but I'm new at all this, so I'm not 100% sure. I do know the stove pipe gets pretty darn hot. And the smell actually gets worse as the fire gets bigger (I would think it would be opposite if it was a draft problem??)

The smell seems to come mostly from the stovetop, particularly out of the top "shelf" part of the unit (it's the step-top model). I'm planning on taking off the back cover to see if maybe something got put in there (this was a floor unit that was on the floor, but not burned, for a couple years).



No, I've burned before for days on end with the same smell. I can't imagine a little bit of dust could make our entire house smell. And it generally lasts for the duration of the fire.



For your sake, I sure hope not.
What's the chimney set up like? It certainly sounds like a smoke leak. The "sweet" smell has been mentioned before around here with cat stoves mostly.
 

mincus

New Member
Oct 28, 2016
48
Missouri
Can't say from the inter-web if the smell is paint or what. I know that slight weird chemically smell when you hit very high temps especially first of the season and have sometimes caught a whiff from outside and I don't think I'd mistake that for paint or paint for smoke.

The stove should not be giving off any significant smell from uncured paints and should not be leaking smoke/exhaust so either way the dealer should work on fixing that.

Going on the assumption that its as bad as you say (cannot run stove w/o opening window) then stick to your guns. If they start getting wishy washy I would make clear that you consider this a potential health and safety issue. Just my opinion.
I mean, we COULD run without opening the windows, but I'm certainly more concerned with the health consequences of this (whether it's paint, oils, smoke, whatever, it can't be good for us). Thing is, I think it's actually usually worse than we think it is because we get used to it throughout the day. This weekend, I started a fire, went downstairs for a few hours, and when I came back up, the smell what pretty powerful, but my wife said she hardly noticed it. So, even if it doesn't seem to strong to us, I think that's just because we're getting used to it.

What's the chimney set up like? It certainly sounds like a smoke leak. The "sweet" smell has been mentioned before around here with cat stoves mostly.
Here's the inside:
IMG_20161123_160139.jpg

The horizontal part going into the wall goes directly to this outside:
IMG_20170122_164855.jpg
 

jatoxico

Minister of Fire
Aug 8, 2011
4,067
Long Island NY
I came back up, the smell what pretty powerful, but my wife said she hardly noticed it.
Unless you're there can't say how bad it is but for comparison my setup you would not know there's a fire going. And I know it's not a matter of getting nose blind. We've returned after being out and there's just no smell 99% of the time except the occasional puff of smoke if I open the door too quick before it's up to full temp.

Now the cat box is sometimes another story.
 
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webby3650

Master of Fire
Sep 2, 2008
10,195
Indiana
I'm going to say that you are smelling smoke due to poor draft. You have some stuff working against you here.
Basement installs often struggle, Tee systems also struggle because you have 2 90 degree turns. Outside you've got several rooflines to contend with, that can cause strange wind directions, pressure differences and downdrafts. To sum it up: basement install, tee system, short chimney. These all are working against you here.
 
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moresnow

Minister of Fire
Jan 13, 2015
885
Iowa
Add pipe. Real easy and it won't hurt in my opinion. With the 2X 90 deg. bends, horizontal run, elevated nearby roofline. I would try more pipe .Reasonably inexpensive possible cure.
 
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mincus

New Member
Oct 28, 2016
48
Missouri
I'm going to say that you are smelling smoke due to poor draft. You have some stuff working against you here.
Basement installs often struggle, Tee systems also struggle because you have 2 90 degree turns. Outside you've got several rooflines to contend with, that can cause strange wind directions, pressure differences and downdrafts. To sum it up: basement install, tee system, short chimney. These all are working against you here.
That could be. But if that was the case, wouldn't the smell decrease as the fire got hotter (because the draft would be better??).

On install date, the installer did mention near the end of the install that draft could be an issue. He gave the horizontal section some upward slope to try to help out. I couldn't go straight up out of the stove because then I would be closer than 10 feet to the second story (this stove is actually on the first floor of a 2 story house). So, if I went straight up, I would have had to take the stove pipe up another 10 feet or so. They didn't seem to think it was an issue initially to do it this way, in fact, it was by their recommendation.

So, you're thinking that the draft is weak, so smoke is coming out of the top of the stove? It seems that most of the smell comes out of the sides of the top section of the step-top stove.
 

webby3650

Master of Fire
Sep 2, 2008
10,195
Indiana
That could be. But if that was the case, wouldn't the smell decrease as the fire got hotter (because the draft would be better??).

On install date, the installer did mention near the end of the install that draft could be an issue. He gave the horizontal section some upward slope to try to help out. I couldn't go straight up out of the stove because then I would be closer than 10 feet to the second story (this stove is actually on the first floor of a 2 story house). So, if I went straight up, I would have had to take the stove pipe up another 10 feet or so. They didn't seem to think it was an issue initially to do it this way, in fact, it was by their recommendation.

So, you're thinking that the draft is weak, so smoke is coming out of the top of the stove? It seems that most of the smell comes out of the sides of the top section of the step-top stove.
Afraid so. Look the stove over really well for a bad weld.