Soapstone -- does it need to babied?

[CO2Neutral]

I've read some posts suggesting soapstone will turn to dust around 600F stovetop. I'm in the market for a new stove and I don't want to disqualify a stove based on some, perhaps, bad info. Just wondering what the REAL DEAL is and if I'll be picking up charred pieces of pretty mineral stone if the stove hits 600-650.

Cheers!

- Mark

 

[Backwoods Savage]

Good question Mark. I had a similar concern before purchasing ours.

Hearthstone makes soapstone and they don't want the temperature over 600 degrees. Woodstock doesn't want the temperature over 700 degrees. I'm sure there is some safety built into these temperatures as I've read of some getting higher. Recently one fellow with a Woodstock Fireview like ours got well over 700 degrees and has had no problem. We've had ours almost to 700 but never over that.

I do recall that the extra 100 degrees with the Woodstock stove was one factor in our decision. That's because I know how the house feels with that extra 100 degrees. For instance, let's say you have a Hearthstone. If 600 is the maximum, I'm sure most would run theirs to 500 or maybe 550. I know how ours feels at 550 and I also know how it feels at 650 and there is a huge difference in what you feel with that heat output.

One other interesting difference is that Hearthstone recommends a slow burn in each fall. They say the soapstone can draw moisture so want a small fire to get rid of that moisture lest the soapstone crack. I asked Woodstock about this because they do not require it. Short answer; it is not needed with the Woodstock stoves. I do know the two companies get the stone from different places.

So I would say your concern is not really a concern at all. I'd be more concerned about scratches in the stone. Some simple 0000 steel wool lightly rubbed will get scratches out on the Woodstock stoves. I believe Hearthstone uses some type of a sealer on theirs so steel wool won't work on them.

They both make good stoves and both have some really beautiful stoves. We compared the two a lot before we bought. I won't bore you with things we found and all the reasons we went with Woodstock, but we've certainly not been sorry we went with Woodstock. They run a company the way it should be run! The also build fantastic stoves.

Good luck in your quest.

 

[CO2Neutral]

Thanks for the response Dennis -- that certainly sheds some working perspective on how sensitive *or not* the stone is. I love the fireview stove however it is not ULC listed (only UL) and insurance companies won't play ball unless it is WETT certified up in my neck of the woods. So, if I want insurance on my home woodstock is out of the question. I see the value in the Woodstock name and it would be an excellent option for us in our 800 per floor home (1.5 storey 1600 sq feet up and down home). Come on Woodstock -- time to go ULC! Actually, even with my softwood I'm not bothered by a 6-8 hour burn in a non-cat. Right now we get 3-4 hours. My mother-in-law has A PE vista (using my wood - so I know it's not a wood issue) and her stove is a complete dream compared to ours. Even though it's a shy small for our home it makes me drool every time we're visiting.

Here's to searching out the elusive, perfect stove -- ha ha!

- Mark

 

[Backwoods Savage]

Mark, have you called Woodstock about this? Perhaps there is something they could do to help.

 

[CO2Neutral]

Good plan -- I called a few months ago actually. The service was excellent (as I've read about on here). However, they explained that they can certainly sell me a stove, and many have been sold to Canada, however if I need to get it inspected I'll be in trouble. For the huge cost and risk I simply can't do it. A shame really -- I support cat and non-cat opinions as they both make sense. But a cat soapstone would really work for us. I hope they will pursue certification if enough numbers of folks are interested.

No fire tonight, but it'll hit 0 celsius. Can't be bothered wrestling the steel beast tonight.

 

[Highbeam]

I have the 600 max temp version of soapstone stove and have been very happy with the output of my properly sized stove at these lower temps. If you need more heat then get a bigger stove. These non-cat soapstones are happy to purr along at 400 while burning cleany for long stretches of time.

Yes a box at 700 is putting out way more mojo than the same box at 600 but a bigger box at 600 will knock the socks off of a tiny one at 700. The first step is determining the required amount of mojo for your home and then getting the proper stove.

I have not run my heritage past 550 or 575. I have had no reason to and have found the stove very easy to keep below these high temps. Not sure what would happen but must assume that the 600 degree max temp is serious.

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

our burn display Hearthstone Equinox was overfired during a in shop chimney fire. (thats a whole nother story). they stove top got well over 900* and the flue pegged at 1400*. The paint melted off the double wall pipe that its installed on. The stove did not turn to dust...
Soapstone is a metamorphic rock http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metamorphic_rock, it looks like it takes quite a bit of heat to create it, i would guess it would take more heat to destroy it.. but im not a geoligist. There is also a interesting wiki on soapstone.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steatite

 

[Backwoods Savage]

Good to know the soapstone took that temperature ok. Thanks for posting MountainStoveGuy

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

that overfire story would make a good topic for another thread!

 

[Reggie Dunlap]

I heated my last house with a Mansfield and regularly burned it at 6-700 degrees. A few times it got to 800, maybe hotter. After nine years and 40-50 cord of wood the soapstone has no cracks. I replaced the door frame once and the baffle once. I will say at 700 degrees the Mansfield throws some serious heat.

 

[CO2Neutral]

Excellent feedback -- this forum is a true gift to the wood heater. Thanks guys!

I'm not sure what stove to buy -- PE, Jotul, and Hearthstone all make sense. But at least now I feel we can buy a soapstone and not worry.

All the best,

- Mark

 

[karri0n]

that overfire story would make a good topic for another thread!

I agree...

 

[Martin Strand III]

I've read some posts suggesting soapstone will turn to dust around 600F stovetop. I'm in the market for a new stove and I don't want to disqualify a stove based on some, perhaps, bad info. Just wondering what the REAL DEAL is and if I'll be picking up charred pieces of pretty mineral stone if the stove hits 600-650.

Cheers!

- Mark

Mark:

Soapstone, as well as other natural and/or man made masonry (fieldstone, granite, brick, etc), can withstand high temperatures well above what any metal wood stove or metal/soapstone stove can tolerate.

Tulikivi, and others, make all soapstone wood heaters (called masonry heaters). Soapstone firebox, walls, floors, the works save the refractory cement that holds all the soapstone pieces together and glass in the cast iron door. These all soapstone fireboxes, fired with 50 - 60 lbs of wood per load and without restricting incoming combustion air, reach temperatures in the 2000* F range, well above what a metal stove, or a metal/soapstone stove could tolerate.

So, I'd venture to say, if you fire your soapstone/metal wood stove high enough to make the stove fail like your Mfg may suggest, it will not fail due to the soapstone but rather it will fail due to the metal components holding the soapstone.

Aye,
Marty

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

I've read some posts suggesting soapstone will turn to dust around 600F stovetop. I'm in the market for a new stove and I don't want to disqualify a stove based on some, perhaps, bad info. Just wondering what the REAL DEAL is and if I'll be picking up charred pieces of pretty mineral stone if the stove hits 600-650.

Cheers!

- Mark

Mark:

Soapstone, as well as other natural and/or man made masonry (fieldstone, granite, brick, etc), can withstand high temperatures well above what any metal wood stove or metal/soapstone stove can tolerate.

Tulikivi, and others, make all soapstone wood heaters (called masonry heaters). Soapstone firebox, walls, floors, the works save the refractory cement that holds all the soapstone pieces together and glass in the cast iron door. These all soapstone fireboxes, fired with 50 - 60 lbs of wood per load and without restricting incoming combustion air, reach temperatures in the 2000* F range, well above what a metal stove, or a metal/soapstone stove could tolerate.

So, I'd venture to say, if you fire your soapstone/metal wood stove high enough to make the stove fail like your Mfg may suggest, it will not fail due to the soapstone but rather it will fail due to the metal components holding the soapstone.

Aye,
Marty

thus they never crack? think i remember crack read

who said anything about not cracking?? we are saying that it will not turn to dust at 600*.

 

[fossil]

If soapstone turned to dust at 600°F, then a whole lot of folks' homes that are still standing just fine and are warm inside during the winter would already have become dust. In fact, there are probably generations of people living right now who'd never have been born. And soapstone stoves wouldn't be available. And soapstone would be banned by the EPA or the FDA or the USDA or the FBI. Or somebody. Rick

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

I've read some posts suggesting soapstone will turn to dust around 600F stovetop. I'm in the market for a new stove and I don't want to disqualify a stove based on some, perhaps, bad info. Just wondering what the REAL DEAL is and if I'll be picking up charred pieces of pretty mineral stone if the stove hits 600-650.

Cheers!

- Mark

dare i bet babies have more cracks than dust?

Dare i bet you will never produce a meaningfull post? What is your deal? we are trying to help people here. Every single post that i read of yours is some sort of gibberish.

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

yea. if you want history on soapstone cracking try the search box.

 

[Martin Strand III]

thus they never crack? think i remember crack read[/quote]

RE: CRACKING

"Cracking" is a function of "thermal cycling", not temperature per se.

All stoves "cycle'' - hot/cool/hot/cool etc - with each burn/cool down cycle; metal stoves more than masonry ones. The lack of heat retention in metal accentuates this undesirable feature and stresses all components of the stove, eventually wearing it out over time (what lasts forever, anyway?).

Masonry (soapstone etc) retains heat much better than metal and thus the thermal cycling stress of this material is much less, besides emitting much more even heat to the room. Despite the claim, all masonry can and does "crack" as well. To minimize this, expansion joints and spaces are engineered into the design of the all masonry heater.

Aye,
Marty

 

[Highbeam]

I've read some posts suggesting soapstone will turn to dust around 600F stovetop. I'm in the market for a new stove and I don't want to disqualify a stove based on some, perhaps, bad info. Just wondering what the REAL DEAL is and if I'll be picking up charred pieces of pretty mineral stone if the stove hits 600-650.

Cheers!

- Mark

dare i bet babies have more cracks than dust?

Dare i bet you will never produce a meaningfull post? What is your deal? we are trying to help people here. Every single post that i read of yours is some sort of gibberish.

I'm with you MSG. Every forum has a guy like this.

I had a hearthstone authorized tech come out to fix my new stove, an old thread, and asked a bit about field failures and he said that the overfired ones have warped doors and tops like the whole top sags down when the supporting castings give way due to overfire. Not hard to fix he said, people love them.

I would rather overfire a steel plate stove and see a red spot than to overfire a stone stove and cause actual damage. Don't buy a stone stove, or any stove really, and plan to overfire it. It's one thing to know what might happen but it is another thing to intentionally overfire it repeatedly.

The hearthstone stoves don't seem to have a sealer applied but they do seem to be polished vs. the woodstock grind.

 

[Todd]

When I asked Woodstock about overfire temps they told me the stone can take the heat, it's the cast iron innards they are worried about.

 

[begreen]

That's odd. I had our Jotul 602 up to 750 almost daily for years. The liners eventually burnt out and needed to be replaced, but the stove is still in good shape. Sounds very conservative.

 

[Highbeam]

The cast iron bits and pieces are simply framework compared to the large castings that are intended to be structural on an all cast stove. There just isn't a lot of iron on these soapstone stoves other than the base casting. For example, when I look up from the firebox at the underside of the stove top on my heritage I see only a few crossbars and mostly the underside of the top stones. Those few crossbars must support the stone weight plus any chimney weight plus my kettle full of water.

It would seem that the stove top is the weakest link in regards to overfire since it is the hottest and since the weight is not supported in the middle.

Why oh why then couldn't the manufacturers design these castings to withstand higher temps which are typical of the other brands?

 

[FireWalker]

our burn display Hearthstone Equinox was overfired during a in shop chimney fire. (thats a whole nother story). they stove top got well over 900* and the flue pegged at 1400*. The paint melted off the double wall pipe that its installed on. The stove did not turn to dust...
Soapstone is a metamorphic rock http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metamorphic_rock, it looks like it takes quite a bit of heat to create it, i would guess it would take more heat to destroy it.. but im not a geoligist. There is also a interesting wiki on soapstone.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steatite

Any kind of damage, warped parts?

I've been letting my Equinox run above 600 (measured on my cheap Rutland thermometer which I think reads high) regularly. This stove really puts out the btu's if you let it! No signs of dust in my house, the thing is like new inside and out. The only dust I made is the ash from 4 cords of locust.

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

No, no signs of damage to the stove, but the pipe took a beating.