Steel, large firebox, rear exhaust, & secondary burn - suggestions?

[lairdreed]

I have a large fireplace into which I am planning to put a wood stove but to keep it from putting all the heat into the bricks around the old fireplace I was hoping to keep the stove out in the room as much as possible (rear exhaust request), and don't like fussing with a cat (secondary burn request), and like to load it up and crank it up hard on the weekends (steel and large firebox requests). I'd probably also like to see a fan available on the stove as well and I've a new 8" liner to hook the stove into with ~ 40' of draft.

While I've cruised the forums and enjoy reading the materials found here I thought I would simply ask the question directly as I was unable to find anything meeting the requirements above.

Thanks,

Laird

 

[begreen]

40 ft exceeds many stove mfg. recommendations. Consider downsizing a bit. Maybe as small as 5" flue for a Jotul F600 or Quadrafire Isle Royale. They're not steel, but are serious heaters. In steel I don't think there is a rear exit stove larger than the Buck 261 @ 2.5 cu ft..

 

[Grisu]

How much of an area to you want to heat? How well is your house insulated? How tall is your fireplace opening? Do you have pics of your fireplace? If the fireplace is inside the house heating up the bricks is actually not a bad thing as they will slowly release the heat into the room over time. That is what I see with my insert. I am also wondering why you see the need to "crank up" the stove so much. Even solid steel stoves will break over time if continuously fired to max allowable temps. A stove with a bigger firebox may be an easy solution there and last much longer then if not pushed to the limit all the time.

If burn times are important to you I would not exclude a cat stove. There is not much "fussing" with a cat anymore. Open the bypass, light the stove, get it up to temp, close bypass, engage cat, enjoy heat for up to 24 hours depending on wood, stove size and outside temps. With a non-cat stove you play around with the air control at least as much. Thus, ease-of-use would not be an argument for me against a cat stove.

 

[The Maine Stove Guy]

They're not steel, but are serious heaters.

Rear exit steel is pretty limited. I agree with begreen, maybe consider options other than steel. What is the height of your fireplace opening?

 

[mellow]

Sounds like an old Victorian house where you have a lot of room to heat. I know I will get flamed for this, BUT, if this is for only weekend use and you want steel you could go with an older rear vent Fisher free standing stove, put a baffle in it to make the emissions a bit better. I would also put in an inline damper if possible, at that height your stove is going to want to run away.

There are still some very nicely redone Fishers out there.

 

[Woody Stover]

Rear exit steel is pretty limited. I agree with begreen, maybe consider options other than steel. What is the height of your fireplace opening?

Seems like there would be a market for that; The low maintenance of a plate-steel stove with the capability to be hearth-mounted and be vented directly up the masonry chimney. Must be a limited market or maybe with the tube stoves, rear venting doesn't work as well. Or possibly many of those places with masonry fireplaces are nicer houses, and they want a pretty stove. Our place isn't fancy but has a brick chimney. The first stove we had, a '84 plate-steel Englander 24 Radiant, had a switchable cover plate.

(broken image removed)

 

[rideau]

First, I agree with Begreen. Even in a moderate climate like DC, a 40 foot (especially if inside)pipe and 8 inch diameter is going to give you monster draft. Zone 5 with over 30 feet of 6 inch pipe I have too much draft.

I agree with Grisu, you are unnecessarily restricting yourself if you avoid a cat. Don't know how big your home is, but, for instance, a Woodstock Fireview heats easily 1600 feet providing all heat in a climate like yours. It is incredibly easy to use...has a one day learning curve for someone who has never heated with wood, I would say. Of course, with any stove as with anything else, the more you use it and the more you care about its performance, the longer your fine-tuning learning curve. Cat doesn't need to be cleaned more than once a year, incredibly easy to get at, takes maybe 10 minutes to clean. Cat stove uses less wood for same heat production. There are very good cat stoves from a number of manufacturers, many rear vented. Woodstock's Progress Hybrid or Lopi's Cape Cod, and Woodstock's upcoming Union Hybrid, should you have a larger home, will produce a ton of heat when burning at reasonable rates. They have large glass windows and heat a room quickly. I think any stove with a large window radiates heat pretty quickly. I'm guessing you want steel for rapid heat production...not necessary with the large windows.

Don't know why you want a fan if the stove is out in the room. Not necessary, is noisy, uses electricity, one more thing to go wrong and to maintain.

So, not suggesting you avoid steel, just suggesting you not restrict yourself by doing so.

Does appearance matter to you at all? How big is your home? Do you just want a fire for ambiance on weekends? Any chance you'll want to eventually heat the home if you find the stove easy to use, or are you in a situation where you cannot handle/store enough wood to do so? MANY end up heating 24/7 when they realize how easy the stoves are to use, and how comfortable the heat.

You'll be happy with a cat or secondary burn stove, if you get one you like the appearance of and that will do what you want it to in terms of producing heat. All the better stoves burn very well and give a great view of the fire. You can burn with an active (read very active) flame in a cat or non-cat stove. That's your call, any given day. The cat allows you to leave the fire burning very slowly while producing lots of heat when you are not in the room. Back in the room and you want active flames, you can just open the air a bit more and let the fire burn hotter.

So tell us what it is you want to accomplish, and we can be more helpful.

 

[lairdreed]

Thank you all for your replies; this forum is very active and helpful.

The fireplace is about 40" high (at the peak of the arch) and 60" wide and 40" deep.

I can't do anything about the length of the liner as the fireplace is in the basement (conditioned space but uninsulated brick walls). I'll have a reducer from 8" to 6" or whatever I need but I wanted to be able to be able to put a BK King in there and not have to tear out the thermix and liner to reline with 8". It also seems an adjustable damper is a good idea, thanks for that.

I wouldn't mind heating the bricks but the back side of the fireplace is undeground so think I'm actually just heating the earth; one of the reasons I think I need a blower to pull the heat off the stove and get it into the air... after which a return to the HVAC system can suck it into the rest of the house.

The house is 5k sq ft, with heat pumps ($) to heat in the winter. I considered putting in a wood fired boiler and pipe heat exhangers to the downstairs hvac ducts but can find a low enough one for the basement fireplace where the chimney is.

Insulation is not great but the house is 220 yrs old and I'm addressing that bit-by-bit. I "crank it up" when I use it as I have lots of wood to burn (hackberry oak and the best is old black locust logs that fell down 5, 10, 20 years ago and are easy to split) am typically only there on weekends and need to warm up house quickly.

I'll cruise for a retrofitted Fishers; they're nice looking.

Thanks for your thoughts all,

Laird

 

[Grisu]

Are you actually planning to put a BK King in or is that just a future possibility? Is that not in the budget right now? The best bang-for-the-buck except maybe something used will be an Eglander NC-30 for $900 from Home Depot. Your fireplace is so large you could easily put the stove in and stuff a lot of Roxul around it:
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/finally-got-around-to-insulating-my-fireplace.75755/ Then you will reduce the heat loss through the masonry.

 

[lairdreed]

I thought the BK King had a rear exhaust option but a local dealer thought not; the Roxul idea is a good one; but not so scenic however.

Based on the advice above I guess I should start looking at cast stoves and the VC defiant it nice to look at but reports are not 100% positive so the search continues.

Woodstock's site is down so I can't see anything about their new hybrid. Anyone have any news about it?

I don't think the NC30 or the Myriad will fit as they are top vent - would have to stuff them way back into the alcove... and i guess this is where the Roxul comes into play... perhaps I should reconsider top vent too...

Laird

 

[begreen]

The Jotul F600 and the Quadrafire Isle Royale are big 3 cu ft stoves with rear exit and a great track record for heating. The Hearthstone Manchester and Lopi Cape Cod are newer models, but appear to be good performers and good lookers too.

 

[BrotherBart]

In the DC area at pretty much sea level that 8" liner will be fine with a stove at 40'. My two 5.5" liners pull too hard at 21' and 35'. Larger liners wouldn't have the velocity. The main disadvantage of a big steel stove in a fireplace is access to clean the blower or replace it.

If you want to stuff a big honkin steel stove in that fireplace ya might consider this one. I hear that somebody that lives at my address is kinda fond of it heating a 2,500 sq. ft. joint for the last six years in Northern Virgina. I sleep under a sheet on about three cords a year.

This fireplace is just 33" high. With six inch legs on the stove. Standard with the stove is nine inch legs.

 

[Grisu]

the Roxul idea is a good one; but not so scenic however.

That's true; the Roxul is usually used with inserts when the surround covers the fireplace. However, yours is that big that you could maybe put the Roxul around the walls and then put some cover (e. g. metalplates) in front of it. That depends, of course, how big the stove will be you want to buy. Where is the damper? Would you need to put the stove far in the back? I am not sure if you can get the BK King in there as the height is getting close and you say your opening is arched. Do you have any pictures of your fireplace? What special feature(s) got you interested in the King in the first place? Maybe there are alternatives.

Have you taken a look at the Hearthstone Equinox? It has a 4 cu ft firebox, rear vent, uses an 8 inch liner and gets burn times that rival a catalytic stove. It is soapstone, not a cranking steel stove but otherwise would fit perfectly what you need. You could close the fireplace opening behind it except for the pipe and thereby reduce the heat loss to the bricks tremendously.

Usually we also suggest to put the stove in the area where you will be most. Is the basement really the place you spent most of the time or could maybe an upstairs fireplace be used for a smaller stove?