Stiff door latch Quadrafire 4100-I Insert

[Jerry_NJ]

My new this year/season Quadrafire 4100-I Insert door latch seems to be "too" stiff. I'm waiting for it to cool down so that I can give the door gasket a careful check....it may be out of the grove or otherwise making the door too thick.

The latch itself is a simple (pictures can be made if needed) that hooks a rotating pin in the case and pulls the door tight as one pushing the handle on the latch down.

The only adjustment is how loose the latch is on the door. That is one can't tighten the mounting bolt down to where the latch is hard to turn, or leave some clearance so that the latch rotates easily, but doesn't have a lot of side-play, that' show I have it adjusted.

In any case, it seems to be taking increasing pressure to rotate the latch into the locked position.

Any experience from other 4100-I owners would be helpful.

 

[LLigetfa]

Try a drop of good quality oil. I have to oil my latch and hinges a couple of times every year and it makes a big difference. So big a difference in fact that I have to warn my wife so she doesn't reef too hard on it and have it fly open.

 

[granpajohn]

So it's not just me! (This is one reason why I always read posts by Jerry_NJ)
I will check into it, but I thought the latch mechanism could be adjusted, from the back, after removing the surround. (An off-season job, IMO). I also assumed this was because the latch would be more likely to get looser, not tighter, over time.

The gasket appears to be OK.

I'm gonna try the oil tonight.

 

[burntime]

Oil will stink, pull up the door and use some pencil lead (powdered graphite) it does not smell and does not burn up quick! JMHO that and 50 cents will get you half a cup of coffee :lol:

 

[granpajohn]

LLigetfa, you were so right!
Just put a bit of (no-smell) 3-in-1 behind the little roller part, and it is like-night-and-day.
And yes, I called the wife in for a second opinion/warning too.

Glad I read this, I was getting a tiny bit worried that something was amiss.

Thanks...

 

[Jerry_NJ]

The part in the cabinet is quite rugged looking, and it has a "roller" type sleeve on the horizontal support rod. The door, a rather large and heavy bay, has what I'd call a rather "light weight" mechanism. This is a strong enough looking "hook" with an mounting rod that goes through a simple 90 degree angle bracket mounted on the door. The rod is a 5/16" bold which has a "friction" nut on the other side. This is "adjustable" but to what tightness? First I tightened it down so the the "hook" would rotate with some noticeable friction, this way it had no wobble. This seemed at first to work better, then it became more difficult to latch into the cabinet rod/roller. So I loosened it up a bit (I also put a second 5/16" nut on the mounting rod/bolt so that I could lock down the friction nut, which was becoming too loose - loss of friction) and it seems if I put the right "English" (that is if I work the "play" with my hand as I close the door it is possible to make the latch slid into the locked position more smoothly.

The cabinet rod/roller worked freely, so I don't see oil providing any improvement on that part, I did put a drop of 3-in-1 oil on the outside of the hook mounting ... but then I also made its mount looser, so it isn't binding. This may just be the way this unit works and one just needs to develop a little technique on closing, rather than simply forcing. I don't think my wife would get it closed right. This could be a negative on this model from Quadrafire, but in general I do like the unit, and give we just went through a week with our central heating sytem out-of-service and cold weather, I got some experience using the Insert for heating 24 hours a day. In that regard the only thing (besides the door latch) I didn't like is the difficulty of removing ash while trying to preserve hot coals. I think an ash pan with a clean out hole would make for easier removal of ash. A tool, I can't fine that would also be useful in managing ash removal is a "fire place hoe". I can't find one at the big box stores, maybe I can find one at a fireplace shop for two to three times what I'd like to pay.

 

[granpajohn]

...
The cabinet rod/roller worked freely, so I don't see oil providing any improvement on that part, ...

Ahh...mine was the same; and I had the same opinion, but I just got a tiny squirt of oil under that roller, and it made a big improvement.

It was the friction between the roller, (which must make a rolling motion for each closure), and its spindle.

The wobbly handle didn't matter. Not sure, but I think that the force on the latch is independent of the 5/16 nut and etc, holding the handle.
(Maybe I'll draw a free body diagram later to fully convince myself)

 

[Jerry_NJ]

Yes, oil is needed. And time.

I shut down the Insert for 24 hours to let it cool down so I can remove most of the ash, and notice the latch works much better. Careful examination confirms all the latch part in the cabinet does is roll, that is there is no up and down motion other than for the play in the roll sleeve. Seems the interface between the sleeve an the mounting rod has to be clean, even lubricated. Suppose that will need to be done a few times a heating season.

Strange Quad doesn't put something in their owners' manul about this, in the maintenance section...maybe they do, I haven't looked.

Thanks to "Lligetfa". and always good to work with you "granpajohn".

 

[offroadaudio]

My 4100I has not been closing properly for a few weeks - I oiled it with 3 in 1 last night after reading this post, and it's as good as new again.

Thanks.

 

[Jerry_NJ]

We've had a good test on 4100Is with 3-in-1 oil, I wonder if WD40 would be even better as the problem seems to be with corrosion buildup.

Too bad Quadrafire didn't spend another 25 cents and make the roller and rod/axle out of stainless steel.

The mistake I made when I first thought oil didn't work is I didn't allow for the time it takes for a drop of oil on the left and right side of the roller to work its way into the 3/4" (or so) of bearing/load area on the axle.

Again, thanks to the experts who support this forum. This fix falls into the elegant category: easy, cheap, and effective.

 

[LLigetfa]

I use a high quality oil with Teflon designed for bicycle chains. There is a slight smell from the heat but it doesn't linger.

 

[granpajohn]

I had planned for the Teflon bicycle chain stuff too, but it was too cold in the garage. Even the 3-in-1 had to be warmed a bit before it would spray out. (Old can). I don't think WD40 is considered a good lube. (Much has been written about this.)

Anyway, I looked at some of the QF user manuals, and find that the 5100 has a Teflon washer indicated. It's a much different mechanism, but at least they thought about the intended motion.

If I may be permitted a moment to criticize, from the day I installed the 4100, I've felt that QF is lacking in the machine shop. Every screw/bolt that had to be set was self-tapping, as if to be used on a plastic trim piece somewhere. To swap the thermo snap disk to the left side, they offered a pair of tiny holes pre-drilled but unthreaded. The screws are not of strong grade steel. But...
...I guess everything has worked as intended, so OK, back to normal; thanks for listening.

 

[burntime]

I was set to buy a 4100 or 4300 insert, I forget the exact number right now. Then I came accross regency inserts, just built better in my opinion. They are all good but just the weight difference made me change...more mass holds heat better? Then I came across regencys upper line hampton. I bought the hampton! Like I said they all seem like good stoves, but I liked the hampton looks better to boot! BTW, WD-40 is that name for its formula...Water displacement 40, it is not a very good lube. I still say the pencil lead is a better lube but if 3 in 1 works and lasts, what the heck, its easier to apply :coolsmile:

 

[humpin iron]

don't use oil, get "Anti-sieze" at an auto parts store or maybe a hardware store. It's a high temp lube, either silver or copper colored, thats the dust that is used in the mix. Use a baby-baby screw driver to dab a little, reach in and put two dabs inside the roller pin from the side. It's tight but you can do it. Will last far longer than any oil and it can take the heat. The roller pin binds on the axel, their both steel and drag on each other.

 

[Jerry_NJ]

Bind, boy they sure do. The way the hing worked I was worried that the pressure I was putting on the latch would break/bend something. My first test was to rotate the roller with my finger, no problem, it rotated just fine. Of course this was with no load, just the weight of the roller.

I think the Regency was one brand that looked good too, but I couldn't find a dealer close enough to look at one, wasn't ready to buy based on a picture. We also like the bay window on the 4100I, albeit I was worried about the load of such a long door on the hinges...they seem to be holding up fine.

I've burned about a cord or wood in my 4100I, so it has a long way to go before I consider it "paid for". Happy the latch is now working smoothly.

 

[PARAL]

Thanks for the heads up! I have not had a problem with mine but now I know ... maybe I should just oil it while I am thinking about it.

I didn't like is the difficulty of removing ash while trying to preserve hot coals. I think an ash pan with a clean out hole would make for easier removal of ash. A tool, I can't fine that would also be useful in managing ash removal is a "fire place hoe". I can't find one at the big box stores, maybe I can find one at a fireplace shop for two to three times what I'd like to pay.

Don't think an ash pan is possible with inserts ... haven't seen one with one at least. Here is the tool so that I got and I am very happy with it.

http://www.woodlanddirect.com/Firep...Sets/Black-4-Piece-26H-Mini-Fireplace-Toolset

 

[Jerry_NJ]

PARAL, ya, that tool on the right side looks like what I had in mind, or have seen somewhere. Problem is we already have a nice set (don't want to know what my wife paid for it) and instead of the "hoe" it has a log grabber, not of use with the insert, or at least not normally needed.

Hope I'm not taken wrong, I like my 4100I, and like it better now that the door latch is "smooth as butter"... thanks. As for other heavier models, for example the cast iron stoves/inserts, I don't think there is any evidence that they are better or last longer. The few cast iron stoves I've seen don't have fire bricks, don't need them. The 4100I fire bricks help hold heat, and I can say I have gotten impatient with how long the 4100I stays hot when I want to really clean it out and clean the glass. I typically is hot for more than 12 hours after the fire is out, just coals, and even after the coals are below the ash level and not easily seen. So holding the heat isn't a problem. I do burn mostly hard wood, but not all hard wood. We have a lot of red cedar and white pine on our property and some of that that comes down or isn't wanted any more also ends up in the fire.

I still think the back air inlet control, the lower one that is open only briefly for starting, is not as smooth as I'd like it to be. If a drop of oil would fix it as well as it did the latch I've be putting oil there. Otherwise, as it now stands, I'm happy with the 4100I.

 

[bhicks1052]

I am now in my second season with my QuadraFire 4100 and other than the door latch , ( thanks for the lubricating idea), I have been really happy with it. It heats our ranch house and has saved me at least 50% on my electric bill. I figure another 2 years and the stove will have paid for itself. It does a great job of holding the heat and fires up easily.
Bill

 

[stoveguy13]

try taking the latch assy. apart it may be binding on the threaded part of the rod and if you re-mount it it will work good again the 4100 has had a number of handle mods.to try and fix this

 

[Jerry_NJ]

I think the common problem on the current models is with the roller that is inside the cabinet, not the latch part on the door.

I will admit I have had some problems with the latch on the door, but that was all due to the friction nut not having the needed friction, i.e., it kept backing off. I put a second 5/16" net to lock down on the friction nut. I have no problem finding the nylon lock nuts, have then on my shelf, but they can't take the temperature, I believe. I haven't been able to find a new all metal friction nut a the big-box-stores.

 

[stoveguy13]

the threaded part of the handle has been breaking for the last 2-3 yrs of and on it always breakes in the same spot about two threads in that is why they went to a thiker rod on it there has never been any major issue with the roller it is the handle binding and it it feels like you cant get the hook around the roller you may also want to try raising or lowering the door as well i am not saying that it is not a problem with the roller but after fixing this fdor years now that is what i have found. have not replaced a roller yet.

 

[LLigetfa]

Don't be so quick to dismiss friction at the roller. A bit of friction there can cause additional force to have to be applied causing more friction elsewhere too.

 

[smokingolf]

As I'm reading this thread I'm sitting here laughing as the first season I have the same insert, the handle got stiff and as I opened the door (stuck) and I'm a guy, the handle brooke off in my hand on a cold Friday night. I called my dealer the next morning and luckily they let me come down and I took the handle off the display model. I have since been using ZEP 45 NC with teflon and have not had a problem since. Lately the handle has been stiff again and I've been thinking to spray some lube on but have been forgetting. However, before typing this reply to this post I just hit the latch with some spray and am probably good for the rest of the season. I love the stove, hope all of you that have the same stove love it as well, remmember, A LITTLE DAB WILL DO YA

Best to all and stay warm, I am.

Brian

 

[Jerry_NJ]

The binding was all the roller in my case, thanks for the oil suggestion.

The handle has not given me any more problems with the nut backing off since I put a second (regular) nut on as a lock-down. Seems to work, still I'd like to get a new (what I call) friction nut. The nut looks like a regular steel nut, but has an indent which I think deforms its thread some small amount making it difficult (can't do with the fingers no matter how loose it is) to turn the nut, on or off.

 

[FlipThatLog]

Thanks very much to those posting their experiences and suggestions on the door latch 2nd screw with lock nut/washer and use of lubricants. This helped us immensely.

I had trouble with the door latch on our Quadrafire i4100 from day one since our dealer installation in Fall 2008. I had a odd feeling that it never really seemed to be a solid lock. I really didn't notice until we ran it hard during our December 2008 Ice Storm, and we then saw soot on our windows. I also had it running one evening when I grabbed the door edge with a welder's glove and was surprised when the door popped open without moving the latch.

Our local dealer fixed the problem on the 2nd try. The first time they noticed that inner latch assembly/hold screw had arrived from the factory stripped. When a new screw didn't last, they used the suggestion posted here: to add a second screw with a lock washer. This worked like a charm. Our dealer has been very responsive and helpful, btw.

Although the Mfg doesn't recommend lubricants on the latch, for fear of a fire hazard; perhaps they think that people will spray ounces into the opening. I think using a tiny drop of bicycling teflon lube applied with a q-tip every few weeks or so is quite an acceptable risk. It works just great. Many thanks to all !