Stove Efficiency Ratings- Important ?

[Cast Iron]

Many states offer rebates for EPA particulate and efficiency certifications for wood stoves. EPA has a list of these for almost all wood stove makers. Some states offer these rebates for stoves with ratings of 75 or higher.
Jotul, Woodstock and Blaze King, among others, do have efficiency in the 75 and higher test results.

Vermont Castings ( HHT ) have NO efficiency ratings for their branded wood stoves, none. The efficiency column on the official EPA listing is blank for HHT stoves. So, no rebate possible for our new Flexburn 2040.
Some state rebates for replacement wood stoves offer up to $500. ; not small change.

How important is this ? HHT's customer service response is that the consumer needs to read the rating plate and the info in the Installation Manual before buying and that the dealer is the contact for this.

 

[edyit]

that sounds like amazing customer service....

 

[bholler]

that sounds like amazing customer service....

Yeah werent we told all of their customer service problems were fixed now?

 

[begreen]

It's a work in progress. There are lots of major companies that have not yet published EPA efficiency numbers, but each new EPA report has many more efficiency listings. This shows that the stoves are being tested and listed once the testing is completed.

Hopefully we'll see VC stoves included this year. Is there an imminent cutoff date for your Vermont rebate or do you have all of 2018?

 

[Cast Iron]

Will check.
Just unusual when an owner (HHT) buys a name (VC) past known for many problems with product and post sale service, looking for market share and restoration of quality would not certify EPA efficiency.
The EPA list has many manufacturers without efficiency ratings. Not Jotul, PE, Blaze King, or Woodstock.
My due diligence was not.

 

[begreen]

Looks like HHT is working on it. They have a lot of stove models to test. Their list of tested products has grown this year.

Most stoves by Travis (Lopi, FPX), SBI (drolet, osburn, etc.), Appalacian, England's, Regency, IHP, Kog, Morso, Buck, Rais, PE, Sherwood (Enviro), US Stove, Wolf (Napoleon) are still waiting to have efficiencies listed. Patience grasshopper.

 

[Ashful]

Are you implying that you’re looking at VC, and while acknowledging the near-endless list of customer service and quality problems that have been discussed on this forum and elsewhere, your concern is whether or not they’ve listed their efficiency rating at epa.gov?

 

[Cast Iron]

Yes Ash. Look over the long list of specs for a new stove in another post.

So, how vital is efficiency rating toa wood stove is the query.

 

[Highbeam]

Is efficiency important? That’s a personal question. It is to me because I heat 100% with wood that I have to buy. Efficiency is More important than emissions and don’t be tricked into thinking that emissions and efficiency are linked because they’re not!

I would not recommend a VC to anybody but that’s not your question. Even published efficiency numbers are full of assumptions that might not match your situation.

 

[Ashful]

Yes Ash. Look over the long list of specs for a new stove in another post.

So, how vital is efficiency rating toa wood stove is the query.

Got it. Efficiency, assuming its calculated under conditions not too far from your own, directly translate into how much wood you’ll need to fell, Buck, haul, split, stack, move, and load. Depending on how much you enjoy or dislike each of those activities, it may be very important to you. Conversely, it may be an excuse to spend more time outdoors.

However, how the stove behaves in your house can have even a bigger effect. Look up my extreme examples of a radiant stove shoved back inside an exterior wall masonry fireplace, for the ultimate failure in net heating efficiency, from a stove that may have been rated among the most efficient of its day, when placed in other environments.

Like Highbeam, I wouldn’t recommend VC to anyone, while there are much better companies you could deal with. But, you’ve been around this forum long enough to have heard that already, so I won’t chew your ear off, on that point.

 

[Cast Iron]

The ear is already gone here though not that long on this rodeo.
Most here have a VC antipathy with only past online info, unlike the Blaze King Kool Aid crowd ....maybe with reason for the Blaze King experience.

The question was and is : can a name brand after too many owner failures restore its quality and service with a new owner and product and service changes for the better ? See past post.

When this VC Encore 2040 gets a workout ( too warm this Spring so far for serious heating ), then the review and eval will be open, honest, and intense. Wait. Only a very tiny few have the 2040 on hearthnet. No reviews !
BTW--that Jotul 12 wasn't such a great heater. It's why it was discontinued.
Think GM, or HP for examples of transformative firms.
To be continued....................

 

[BKVP]

Some of the states programs require the EPA efficiency to be 75% or higher. Until recently, the listed efficiencies were simply a default. Now only thermal efficiency are accepted.

Also, some units may not make the 2020 requirements of 2.0 when tested to method 28R, so those units may never have their efficiencies tested.

 

[Ashful]

The ear is already gone here though not that long on this rodeo.
Most here have a VC antipathy with only past online info, unlike the Blaze King Kool Aid crowd ....maybe with reason for the Blaze King experience.

The question was and is : can a name brand after too many owner failures restore its quality and service with a new owner and product and service changes for the better ? See past post.

When this VC Encore 2040 gets a workout ( too warm this Spring so far for serious heating ), then the review and eval will be open, honest, and intense. Wait. Only a very tiny few have the 2040 on hearthnet. No reviews !
BTW--that Jotul 12 wasn't such a great heater. It's why it was discontinued.
Think GM, or HP for examples of transformative firms.
To be continued....................

BK is adored on this forum, not just because the unique performance of their stoves, but because of the many examples of end user support. My stoves are out of warranty, yet I still have a direct line to a VP of the company, and get support on any issue I come upon. Call it cool-aid if you want, but there’s a well-deserved reason for the accolades they receive here and elsewhere.

The same can be said for Woodstock, their customer service model and ethics are top notch. It’s just hard to not love that company, no matter what you think of their stoves.

The decision to discontinue the Jotul 12 was not based on it’s heating performance. It was based on its high customer-service requirement. It was a downdraft cat stove, with a too-small combustor, and a delicate refractory chamber. This combination of factors caused much frustration for end users, but it was a very efficient stove, and a good heater. It actually ran much lower flue temps than my Ashfords, when ripping thru big loads of hardwood. When they came out with their non-cat line, they dropped most of their catalytic equivalents, thus the Firelight 600 replaced the Firelight 12. In fact, they use 95% of the same parts and castings.

Jotul makes some great stoves, but their customer service model sucks, in my opinion. They will not speak with end users, you cannot call them, and if you do, they will only tell you to call your dealer. If your dealer is unhelpful, or less knowledgeable, you are S.O.L.

Finally, yes... you are correct that most of the VC criticism is based on past experience, sometimes a little old. They may have corrected many or most of these past deficiencies, but I wouldn’t want to be the first one to dip my toe in the water, to find out. I’d rather deal with a known-good entity, and let others prove that point.

 

[bholler]

The ear is already gone here though not that long on this rodeo.
Most here have a VC antipathy with only past online info, unlike the Blaze King Kool Aid crowd ....maybe with reason for the Blaze King experience.

The question was and is : can a name brand after too many owner failures restore its quality and service with a new owner and product and service changes for the better ? See past post.

When this VC Encore 2040 gets a workout ( too warm this Spring so far for serious heating ), then the review and eval will be open, honest, and intense. Wait. Only a very tiny few have the 2040 on hearthnet. No reviews !
BTW--that Jotul 12 wasn't such a great heater. It's why it was discontinued.
Think GM, or HP for examples of transformative firms.
To be continued....................

Yes i am sure they could turn it around. But they will have to abandon the extremly problematic down draft design. Wuite a few have tried it and none have made a reliable durable heater with it. And designing some new stoves instead of reworing the old ones that have gotten such a bad name would probably be a good idea as well.

 

[Ashful]

Yes i am sure they could turn it around. But they will have to abandon the extremly problematic down draft design.

There’s that term again, “down draft”. See Jotul 12.

 

[Cast Iron]

For some reason we never had a problem reaching Jotul USA in Portland, Maine for over a decade or more.
It took some G2 probing and persistance originally, but then once a contact with direct line was found , it was simple.
Woodstock and BK are models of customer service quality. If the Woodstock stove ( Progress) had some of the needs, it would have been a no brainer. Ashford the same, though $$$$.
Specs to replace the Oslo:
top load
cat
pretty
blue/black enamel

 

[bholler]

As far as your question about efficency ratings it matters if your state has a rebate for efficent stoves otherwise it doesnt matter that much because the numbers are not very accurate in the real world.

 

[begreen]

This thread is a repeat of a couple others now, especially of the VC stove issues, strengths and weaknesses. The original question has been answered. Efficiency numbers are coming in and will continue as the stoves are retested. Just look at the difference in efficiency reports for last Nov. to this May.