Suggestions needed to feed a rigid tube liner above the roof with a flat concrete top.

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yonny33

Member
Feb 9, 2021
120
Uruguay
Can aluminium rivets still be used with stainless steel in a dry environment or does the reaction between the metals still occur?

Thanks
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
25,478
central pa
Can aluminium rivets still be used with stainless steel in a dry environment or does the reaction between the metals still occur?

Thanks
The reaction with stainless is much less but still happens it also depends on the stainless alloy
 
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yonny33

Member
Feb 9, 2021
120
Uruguay
Managed to install the liner today. What a struggle! The stainless steel sections weighed much more than I had imagined and with the ceramic fiber.
Up and down the ladder a zillion times. Used a rope to pull it up 1 metre at a time.

Needed 2 supports as I didn't feel like the one at the top was enough.

Another clamp screwed in also and cabled to the walls.

Fiber was a bit tricky to prevent it sliding down. Attached some thin wire at each section with loops to hold it down.
 

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yonny33

Member
Feb 9, 2021
120
Uruguay
Added some adjustable clamps but still 1/2 inch off center. Need to move the wall hook on the right one a little to pull it in.
Not so easy working up a chimney flue.
 

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yonny33

Member
Feb 9, 2021
120
Uruguay
Lot of progress made last few days. Hardiebacker equivalent boards installed in the awkward corner insert. Floor leveled with concrete ready for a new hearth. All home diy work.

Happy with the progress

Closure plate is easily removable

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yonny33

Member
Feb 9, 2021
120
Uruguay
Stove finally arrived this weekend. Some parts from Poland took 3 months to arrive!! Parts needed: 90 degree bend with opening for cleaning, a new reflective brick side as 1 was broken, damper, 1/2 metre stove pipe and a top cover plate as we were using the rear exhaust exit instead of the top pipe.

We are over the moon with it. Still got the hearth floor to finish but have done a dry fit and we're testing it out to make sure all the piping is in place and no leaks etc.

Added a stove fan and this makes a big difference even though the top of the stove only gets to 150c I think due to the design of the 3 plates with an air gap in between.
The glass reaches almost 400c!! Blasts out heat to the front.

Hardly need our underfloor heating on at all now.
Wife loves it!

So clean, efficient and we only put one piece of wood in at a time.

I did order a flue damper just in case. I added it as a precaution as the flue is 7 metres in length and we get strong coastal winds here being only 100m or so from the beach. The draft is instant even with the air control half-closed.

My next thought is the bedroom above which is the coldest part of the house in winter. Thinking of adding a couple of small flexible pipes with a fan up the flue from the back of the stove into the bedroom. The brick wall of the flue passes through the bedroom in the corner so could be perforated easily.
Some design thoughts in my head at the moment. Obviously, I'd fit a carbon monoxide alarm in there. I think I can get 2 x 60mm pipes down the flue next to the stove pipe fitting. There is a backplate at the back of the stove with a good 4-5cm space where the pipes could be fitted into the take the intense heat from back.

What do you think
 

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PaulOinMA

Minister of Fire
Oct 20, 2018
1,020
MA
Looks great! Thanks for the update.
 
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yonny33

Member
Feb 9, 2021
120
Uruguay
What a beautiful job you did--looking great--stove is different and beautiful...clancey
Thank you!
Yes, we think so too. We looked long and hard for a nice-looking good quality stove that also fit in the awkward space with the rear port option also which most did not have. Was worth the wait.

Just missing a nice new floor hearth and replace the small section of pipe that is stainless steel for the 2mm black section we have. That will be tough to cut though.

It's so nice to be able to light the fire even with the door partly open with the smoke not coming out, the draft sucks up the smoke efficiently up the flue. Our old open fireplace was so smokey, sometimes not enough draft, and the smoke would overflow into the living room. Had to open a window to create more draft which let the cold air in!!
 
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yonny33

Member
Feb 9, 2021
120
Uruguay
Do you think it would be possible to divert some of the hot air behind above the stove to the bedroom directly above this?

This main bedroom is the coldest in winter and does get a few superficial damp spots in the corners of the ceiling which are easily removed each Spring.

The flue goes directly through the bedroom in the corner so a small perforation could easily be made on one of the 1 foot brick sides.

Now I think I could get a couple of 60mm flexible tubes down the sides next to the insulated flue pipe.
These could be fed from hot air from the plate at the back of the stove with a small fan in the bedroom to help suck in hot air.
Just to take the chill off the bedroom basically, we don't like to sleep in a hot room.

Possibly another option. In the living room we have an open staircase just next to it without a door and a very high ceiling to the top floor where a lot of hot air collects and is wasted. This high wall is the bedroom wall.
I hole with a grill and fan to suck in that hot ceiling air into the bedroom may be an easier option. Not as much hot air but utilizing that wasted hot air at the top of the stairs.


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yonny33

Member
Feb 9, 2021
120
Uruguay
Some photos to get an idea - the stove just behind this wall on the 1st floor where the red arrow points.
2nd photo showing the high ceiling where heat accumulates and the freezing bedroom wall just behind it where the blue arrow is.
Possibly a ventilation grill in the wall and a small fan.? Going to measure the temperature at the top of the ceiling tonight with a ladder. Bet it is boiling. Must be 6-7 metres high. Once thought of building some storage space but time and budgets always get in the way.

Suggestions/opinions greatly appreciated. Either a couple of small pipes sucking in hot air from the stove up the flue to the bedroom or just a gentle airflow from the stairway ceiling area

highceiling.jpg photo_2021-06-02_11-22-56 (2).jpg stove location.jpg
 
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gthomas785

Feeling the Heat
Feb 8, 2020
497
Central MA
Yes opening up some passive ventilation into that room from the stairway will probably help.

At first my reaction to running warm air ducts through the chimney was Noooo but then I remembered your house is made of stone so it probably won't burn down no matter what you do. It is common around here (not always code compliant) to install a floor grate in the ceiling above the stove to let some warm air into the room above. What you are proposing sounds like it would have a similar effect so long as the ducts do not interfere with the liner or vice versa.

Generally, when we have an open fireplace chimney with a liner going up it we would install an insulated "block off plate" to keep the warm air generated by the stove from rising up the open chimney and project into the room instead.
 
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yonny33

Member
Feb 9, 2021
120
Uruguay
Yes opening up some passive ventilation into that room from the stairway will probably help.

At first my reaction to running warm air ducts through the chimney was Noooo but then I remembered your house is made of stone so it probably won't burn down no matter what you do. It is common around here to install a floor grate in the ceiling above the stove to let some warm air into the room above. What you are proposing sounds like it would have a similar effect so long as the ducts do not interfere with the liner or vice versa.

Generally, when we have an open fireplace chimney with a liner going up it we would install an insulated "block off plate" to keep the warm air generated by the stove from rising up the open chimney and project into the room instead.

Thanks yes, all stone/brick.

The floors are reinforced concrete and add to that we have underfloor electric heating embedded into it, so no holes can be made in the floors. Wondering why we don't use the heating in the bedroom probably crossed your mind. Just a freezing area and that zone uses more than 2000watts per hour so is a significant cost. Takes at least 3 hours to heat up that floor with wood laminate floors on top of the concrete so rarely do we use it.

I have a closure plate ("block off plate") above the stove to prevent heat loss and the fan to blow it out of the insert. Could do with a bit more insulation though.

I know the 2nd option is possibly easier and cheaper - bringing in hot ceiling air with a simple vent.

Not sure really yet.

Can 2 small 60 mm pipes from the stove area really bring in enough air to warm up the bedroom a little? ( know the exit flue pipe at the back quickly reaches 200-250c which is a lot of energy to tap into) (I may also find I have trouble getting them down between the flue and flue piping in the tight 30x30cm flue.
 

gthomas785

Feeling the Heat
Feb 8, 2020
497
Central MA
Thanks yes, all stone/brick.

The floors are reinforced concrete and add to that we have underfloor electric heating embedded into it, so no holes can be made in the floors. Wondering why we don't use the heating in the bedroom probably crossed your mind. Just a freezing area and that zone uses more than 2000watts per hour so is a significant cost. Takes at least 3 hours to heat up that floor with wood laminate floors on top of the concrete so rarely do we use it.

I have a closure plate ("block off plate") above the stove to prevent heat loss and the fan to blow it out of the insert. Could do with a bit more insulation though.

I know the 2nd option is possibly easier and cheaper - bringing in hot ceiling air with a simple vent.

Not sure really yet.

Can 2 small 60 mm pipes from the stove area really bring in enough air to warm up the bedroom a little? ( know the exit flue pipe at the back quickly reaches 200-250c which is a lot of energy to tap into) (I may also find I have trouble getting them down between the flue and flue piping in the tight 30x30cm flue.
60mm is pretty small for a passive duct. A small fan or blower would help move some air through that pipe.
 

yonny33

Member
Feb 9, 2021
120
Uruguay
60mm is pretty small for a passive duct. A small fan or blower would help move some air through that pipe.
oh yes for sure I was planning to add a fan. Looking at small efficient ones possibly a fast pc cpu fan running at 3500 rpm. 7cmx7cm. 12v.
The piping is not cheap so bit of a gamble whether it will work or not.

Possibly may end up with both, the passive grill at the top of the stairs and then the small piping ducting the hot stove air.
Undecided as of yet.
 

gthomas785

Feeling the Heat
Feb 8, 2020
497
Central MA
Looking at small efficient ones possibly a fast pc cpu fan running at 3500 rpm. 7cmx7cm. 12v.

Just be wary of the noise those things can make. It could be fine, or it could be super annoying.

It's so nice to be able to light the fire even with the door partly open with the smoke not coming out, the draft sucks up the smoke efficiently up the flue. Our old open fireplace was so smokey, sometimes not enough draft, and the smoke would overflow into the living room. Had to open a window to create more draft which let the cold air in!!

That is thanks to your diligence in insulating the flue. You're going to enjoy burning in this stove.
 
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begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
89,537
South Puget Sound, WA
The install and stove looks great. Enjoy the warmth.

60mm is pretty small for a passive duct. A small fan or blower would help move some air through that pipe.
Yes, very small, even for an active duct. unless it is under a lot of pressure.
Possibly another option. In the living room we have an open staircase just next to it without a door and a very high ceiling to the top floor where a lot of hot air collects and is wasted. This high wall is the bedroom wall.
I hole with a grill and fan to suck in that hot ceiling air into the bedroom may be an easier option. Not as much hot air but utilizing that wasted hot air at the top of the stairs.
That sounds like a better option. A ceiling fan at the high point would also help a lot.
 
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yonny33

Member
Feb 9, 2021
120
Uruguay
Thanks for the feedback. Yes, would definitely need 2 x 60mm pipes with some strong forced airflow, most likely the cpu fan may not be up to the job.
I sit in my own IT office with fans around me on 24/7. I have them on smart mode though, so only speed up when things get hot, and yes sounds like the unit is taking off sometimes.

Most likely a stronger blower might be needed for a 60mm pipe. But we'd only have that on in the bedroom to 'pull' when we are downstairs. switching it off when coming to bed.

The consensus is to try the simple hole on the sidewall to the staircase ceiling with a small extractor fan? The other half is not keen on having grills on the wall but so high up nobody is going to see that. Small price to pay also for a warmer drier bedroom.

In USA you tend to have a lot of grills for heating and A/C
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
89,537
South Puget Sound, WA
As a test, take a table or box fan running on low speed and put it in the bedroom, on the floor, blowing air out the door into the hallway. The cool air being exhausted from the bedroom down low will be replaced with warmer air from the hallway at the top of the doorway. Take the BR temperature before starting and then check it again after 30-60 minutes. In our house I noted a 5ºF increase in the bedroom temperature after 30 minutes.
 

yonny33

Member
Feb 9, 2021
120
Uruguay
As a test, take a table or box fan running on low speed and put it in the bedroom, on the floor, blowing air out the door into the hallway. The cool air being exhausted from the bedroom down low will be replaced with warmer air from the hallway at the top of the doorway. Take the BR temperature before starting and then check it again after 30-60 minutes. In our house I noted a 5ºF increase in the bedroom temperature after 30 minutes.

Could be an option but we have an aisle from the bedroom with the wardrobe and en-suite to the right (also cold but we do put the floor heating on in there).
You can can an idea of the layout here. With the chimney flue through the bedroom

photo_2021-06-02_14-00-43.jpg
 
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begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
89,537
South Puget Sound, WA
As a test, I'd still try it as suggested. The air displaced from the bedroom will be replaced with warmer air from the hallway.
 

yonny33

Member
Feb 9, 2021
120
Uruguay
As a test, I'd still try it as suggested. The air displaced from the bedroom will be replaced with warmer air from the hallway.
Unfortunately haven't got a fan strong enough for this test. Just a couple of small usb desk fans. They won't do much.
Maybe 3 of those in series on the floor - worth a try
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
89,537
South Puget Sound, WA
Do you have a local thrift store or goodwill equivalent? They might have one. Does it get hot enough in the summer to warrant having a table fan?
 

yonny33

Member
Feb 9, 2021
120
Uruguay
Do you have a local thrift store or goodwill equivalent? They might have one. Does it get hot enough in the summer to warrant having a table fan?
We have plenty in the beach house but not here, unfortunately, as we have a/c in most rooms. Doesn't warrant me buying a new one for this test.

Still avoiding going to any stores also as we are in the worst moments of covid, took a while to get here but now as I've only had 1 vaccination (waiting for the booster), I'm avoiding all stores. I'll see online how much they are. Could be useful in the summer for the living room.