The Dark Side

[FionaD]

I'm not sure if this has been a feature of the stove right from the start (one year ago) and I'm only just noticing it, or if this is a new thing...

I am noticing that the fire is burning a little unevenly. The right side of the box always burns more slowly and also has fewer secondaries.. Sometimes the darker appearance of that side of the fire is quite marked, with no secondaries or flames at all on that side.. Other times it's not that bad. When I think about reloading, I sometimes notice that the coals are glowing red and pretty much spent on the right side of the box, but they are still black in parts on the left side. Also, there is almost always a sooty stain, just on the top rear left corner of the fire box, whereas the rest of the box is clean.

The air secondary intake (Jotul F3cb) is on the rear left side and the air control is on the front right. The uneven burn seems to be happening at any stage in the cycle.

At first, I wondered if it wasn't so much that the left side is under-burning, but that there is a leak on the right side and its burning more energetically... but I don't think it's that, becuase of the slightly under-burnt coals I sometimes find on the right side towards the end of the cycle.... Nevertheless, i tried the dollar bill test and the result is just the same as when the stove was new - the bill slips out after a little resistance all along the top of the door and does not come out at all from the sides or bottom. My first post here a year ago asked if this was OK and I belive it was considered a pass.

It's not a HUGE thing.. The stove is performing OK generally.. I guess I'm kinda hoping you might say that many stoves do burn a little unevenly...I'm sure I half recall seeing something written here to that effect, but haven't been able to find it in a search, so maybe that's wishful thinking...

 

[Osagebndr]

Mine tries from the start up to do that. I believe I'm not getting the coals from the fire before raked out very evenly. I'll open the door and give the coals a little boost on the slow side of the fire on start up sometimes I works sometimes not, but I'm still learning my stove also

 

[Jags]

Have you done the dollar bill test to confirm that the door gasket it properly sealing all the way around? Air intrusion can cause wonky reactions internal to the stove.

 

[FionaD]

Have you done the dollar bill test to confirm that the door gasket it properly sealing all the way around? Air intrusion can cause wonky reactions internal to the stove.

Yes..I tried the dollar bill test and the result was just the same as when the stove was new - the bill slips out after only a little resistance all along the top of the door, but does not come out at all from the sides or bottom. My first post here a year ago asked if this was OK and it was considered a pass. You may think otherwise, but as far as I can tell there's no change from last year.

Here's a pic... It's not always as bad as this, but it is often like this when the air is almost entirely shut off and the secondaries kick in. When the stove is open and blazing before that, the imbalance is less apparent but still there if you look for it.

 

[Jags]

asked if this was OK and it was considered a pass.

I think I may have been the one to give it a passing grade. It still sounds good.

Logic would seem to be "more incoming combustion air" in that area. But why? I don't know.

 

[begreen]

Has the top ever been off the stove? If so make sure that it got put back on correctly. It is easy for it to hang up on the little set screws. If that happens, or if any crud is on the gasket it can leak air on that side and cause uneven burning. Take a look at the lid in comparison with the stove body from each side and make sure the lid is parallel to the stove body.

More info on the lid with picture here:
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/jotul-3cb-doesnt-heat-check-the-top-lids-level.27/

 

[FionaD]

Wow... That sounds very likely Begreen.... The lid was off the stove just the week before I noticed the problem, we decided to take that route to sweeping the flue, as it really needs to be a top down sweep with our flue setup.

It's too dark to have a look this evening, but I sure will tomorrow and keep you posted. But it seems too much of a coincidence for it not to be the issue, doesn't it?

Thanks so much..!

I'm not too sure how I feel about taking the lid off for every sweep. The only other way to get in to the flue is the way it was done the last time... to take out all the innards of the stove, so that the secondary burn plate can be removed to get to the flue..that seemed even more of an issue. But surely unscrewing the top for every sweep will wear our the screws after a while?

 

[begreen]

Taking the lid off for sweeping should not be an issue, it's gasketed for this purpose. But one must be sure the gasket is clean after sweeping (use a vacuum). And one must be sure to visually check that the lid has been put back on squarely.

 

[FionaD]

Thanks again BG... I guess I just worry cos I have a habit of eating into screws if I work with them often!

 

[begreen]

Yes, they are tiny screws. They don't need to be tight. However I would think that the allen screws can be removed if desired. Just save them if the stove is sold or moved.

 

[clr8ter]

Huh. I have an Oslo that behaves in a similar fashion. Although, my stove tends to swap which side burns unevenly. But in the morning, more often than not, it's obvious that the left (door) side has burned further, and more completely. Though we got the thing used, I do not believe it has ever had the top removed. I'd been thinking that the door gasket has worn, I replaced it the year we got it, 4 years ago, and so I just did it again today. Didn't even bother with the DB test, as I considered it routine maintenance.

 

[FionaD]

So I had a look at the stove top for any sign of it being seated unevenly. Not much to see... Maybe it was a little higher in the front, but it was so negligible I wondered if it was just my imagination. The stove top was actually touching the top of rear heat sheild... I noticed that wasn't the case in your pic from a few years ago, but the design looked a little different, so it might just have been that.

Anyway, I took off the stove top, gave it a wee clean (there was nothing untoward to see inside.. no soot trail) I turned it 180 degrees and re-seated it. That was definitely the issue. It's burning fine now. Thanks so much for the help, Begreen.

I do think the stove is still ever so slightly favouring the secondary burn on the right side, but honestly it's such a tiny difference, I wouldn't even be noticing it in another context. I think I'm fine with it.

I noticed that there was quite a lot of play with regard to the position of the stove top... There was no one clear correct position... In fact I could slide is backwards and forwards by about half an inch. I was surprised at that, I thought there'd be one very clear position it would decisively slip into. So, on the basis that it had been sitting quite far back to be resting on the rear heat sheild, I slid it into a more forward position.. Any road up.. It's doing what it should do now.

It is exactly one year to the day that my stove installation was complete and the first fire was lit. It took a long road to get to this point where it's all as it should be... Feels good to have got here at last!

 

[kennyp2339]

Mine burns like a horse shoe, from the middle out.

 

[FionaD]

Ok.. So I hate to say it, but it does seem that there is still a problem. I really thought that adjusting the stove top did seem to make a wee differenc, but having now sat with it for a few days, things seem to be pretty much as they were - the stove is under burning on the left side, especially in the rear, in both the flaming and the secondary burn parts of the cycle.

Here's what I have noticed in total so far -

1- there is a small deposit of soot always present on the left side of the rear secondary burn holes... Exactly at the point where secondaries rarely happen.
2- there appears to be a gasket at the back of the stove box that runs between the top of the back baffle and the secondary burn plate. It is almost pulverised and it doesn't run the whole length, it stops dead exactly at the point the soot deposit starts.
3- there should be four bolts holding the secondary plate in place; two in the rear and two on the front, on the sides. They are absent.
4- in the F3 manual there is a picture of the secondary plate in situ and there appears to be a gasket running along the side of it, between the plate and the side baffle. These are completely absent in my stove.

Some guys from a diffent stove centre from my (bad) installers came round today, I pointed out what I had noticed and showed them a video of how the stove looks when burning (from which the pic at the start of this thread was taken). They said they could not think that the missing gaskets and screws would affect how the stove burns.... Even when I pointed out the co-incidence of the rear gasket stopping at the very point the soot mark begins. They seemed adamant they could not figure a way this could be connected.

The guys rubbed their chins and looked around the stove for at least an hour before they left, having re-seated the stove top (again). They said to contact them again if there was no change and they would try adding the screws, gasket etc, even though they didn't think it would make a difference.

Any thoughts? I'd love to especially hear if any f3 owners out there could take a look inside their stoves and see if they have the screws and secondary plate gaskets I've described. For sure they are in a pic in the manual, but of course sometimes these pics are outdated or generic and not relating to a specific stove - so hearing from other f3 folk would be welcome..

Thanks.. And sorry if my ongoing stove woes are getting a bit tired, they are for me too.....

 

[FionaD]

Sorry folks, I thought I might bump this thread in the hope that someone could still help (see previous post)

In addition to what I said above, I am now wondering if there is some sort of problem with the air intake in the front of the stove... It seems to me that there is not enough air getting to the front left of the stove. The rear left is where it's really apparent, the fire is just dead there, but I am now noticing that there is also a less active burn on the front left.

This is where I really wish I had better understanding of how the stove works... But doesn't the air come down the front of the stove to control the burn rate (and air wash) ? so therefore, could there be some sort of block to the flow of air on the left side? if so, is there any way I could check for this?

 

[clr8ter]

At this point, you may be obsessing and overthinking it. I say this because I have the same tendency. It's a wood stove, with inconsistent fuel. It's not an engineered device AND fuel system, like oil or gas. Having said that, if I noticed my stove was missing bolts and a gasket, I'd be real interested in someone putting them there, unless they can prove your stove is not supposed to have them. Other than that, if the stove operates adequately, and does it's job, it may be best to overlook it's quirkiness...

 

[FionaD]

I'm trying not to obsess... Truly iI's hard though, to look at a stove that is practically only burning on one side of the fire box and therefore not throwing out too much heat either....

I'm looking at it right now - just 30 mins after the last load up - and there are perfect secondaries on exactly one side.

 

[clr8ter]

So, then, what is the temperature on both sides of the top?

What if, you used wood 1/2 as long as usual, and built the fire on the side of the stove that usually doesn't burn? That might tell you something interesting.

 

[FionaD]

Temp on the left side is currently 150 less than temp on the right...

To get the fire to produce even just a few secondaries on the left side I need to take the right side up to 600 before I close down the air. This can often mean the right side continues to climb a little too high for comfort.

What tends to happen currently is that, once the right side has burnt to ash the left side burns a little more and continues to burn till its done... This usually takes another hour. It's like the stove operates in two shifts, one half ata time! Hard to predict from that what would happen if I set up a fire and burnt only on the left side, but for sure I'll try your suggestion, clr8ter..,as you say, it might add a little piece to the puzzle. thanks.

When I next have the time to spare, I will also take a drive to the nearest town that has a Jotul dealer and have a look inside their F3s to see if they have the bolts and gaskets that I dont...

 

[clr8ter]

If the stove was bought new, shouldn't it be under warranty still? Admittedly, from your last description, it would bother me enough to be screaming for a new one. If needed, take a video of it doing (not doing) it's thing, and show them.

 

[FionaD]

I agree. It's complicated. The warranty apparently requires me to go through the installers who are inept. I am looking into the suspect legality of that, as there has to be a workaround.... but Jotul seem to have a policy of not wanting to talk to customers, they prefer to deal with dealers and have the dealers work with the customers. In the meantime I'm still hoping I can sort the problem with the stove. The guys who looked at it a couple of days ago said they'd come back and do the gaskets and bolts if the problem persisted, even tho they can't think that's the cause. If need be I will ask if they (who are also recognised Jotul dealers) might talk with Jotul on my behalf.

I would frankly rather buy a new stove from someone else than have those installers come back inside my house.

 

[brad wilton]

hi fiona, i don't think gasket is problem you would be complaining of to much flame.air would be sucked in

 

[Byrond]

Maybe the same reason a toilet spins one way in northern hemisphere and opposite in the southern?

 

[FionaD]

hi fiona, i don't think gasket is problem you would be complaining of to much flame.air would be sucked in

Even if it's a missing gasket at the back of the stove? In other words, close to the flue exit, with all that upwards and outwards pull? I say that becuase I notice that the flames on the right tend to lean towards the rear left corner, where the missing gasket just happens to be.

I know I'm reaching here... Getting a bit desperate. This is surreal.

 

[Kevin Dolan]

Maybe the same reason a toilet spins one way in northern hemisphere and opposite in the southern?

Byrond have you checked to see if the earth is flat?