Well the state of Michigan nixed my plans of installing an EKO-40. So now I'm searching for a wood gasification boiler that is both UL listed and ASME certified. Any and all suggestions are welcome. Please, it's gettin' cold and I got wood to burn!
The search is on for a wood gasification boiler!
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Really? I live in Michigan and installed an inspected EKO 40. Actually the inspector was quite interested in the system and wanted to know more about it.
Floydian
Feeling the Heat
Any chance of installing a European style open pressurized system with the expansion tank being the highest point of the system?
This is the route I going to keep my building official happy. He said no problem as this system can't build pressure.
The EKO's are now UL and CSA approved by Omni-according to New Horizons site.
AFAIK the only boilers available with ASME certification are Econoburn and Wood Gun.
Hope this helps,
Noah
This is the route I going to keep my building official happy. He said no problem as this system can't build pressure.
The EKO's are now UL and CSA approved by Omni-according to New Horizons site.
AFAIK the only boilers available with ASME certification are Econoburn and Wood Gun.
Hope this helps,
Noah
Tony H
Minister of Fire
I think in most areas it depends on the exact location and local codes. Illinois for example does not have a state code it uses national codes plus local codes and ordinances that make up the total picture. Was the inspector you spoke with the head of the local building dept ? if not you might want to have a talk with the boss before you change all your plans based on his opinion.
We had a electrical inspector a few years ago that was so gung ho he shut down almost every job site he visited !! After a little while I got a group of contractors together about 12 of the larger ones in the area and setup a meeting with the county clerk that supervises the building dept. The meeting only took about 5 minutes and the guy never shut down another site and in fact he was gone in a few months.
We had a electrical inspector a few years ago that was so gung ho he shut down almost every job site he visited !! After a little while I got a group of contractors together about 12 of the larger ones in the area and setup a meeting with the county clerk that supervises the building dept. The meeting only took about 5 minutes and the guy never shut down another site and in fact he was gone in a few months.
stee6043
Minister of Fire
Yeah, I think it is a location specific ordeal here in Michigan. I'm pretty sure the building inspector in my area is older than UL or CSA.....
But there are always ways around these issues. Specifically, you can go non-pressurized if you want to. Don't give up on the EKO yet. You're in the right place if you really want to make it work....
But there are always ways around these issues. Specifically, you can go non-pressurized if you want to. Don't give up on the EKO yet. You're in the right place if you really want to make it work....
flyingcow
Minister of Fire
Actually the HVAC guy my wife hired asked the state inspector about the EKO. If it was left completely up to me I would be burning wood as I speak. Anyway, does anyone know what department I can contact the state inspector through? I would like to ask him some questions. Mainly about setting it up unpressurized with the expansion tank raised high. I'm going to get that boiler in my garage one way or another.
Tony H
Minister of Fire
Lar- Bud check on your other thread on of the guys Gooserider talks about the use of a high mounted open expansion tank that makes it an open system but allows function like a closed system and more importantly would allow you to install a EKO in your house. You can go the don't ask don't tell route and install it in an outbuilding as long as the neighbors are your pals. Then again maybe that's a loophole if it's not in an inhabited structure does it still need need to meet those specs?
stee6043
Minister of Fire
Lar-Bud said:
Perhaps you haven't gone far enough yet....but typically you can't put a wood burning appliance in your garage. There are many threads here on that topic....
I feel like we are constant rain on your parade. Ask us a question we can answer positively already!!??
Well here's the low down. We live in town, but if it was up to me I would've already had it set up in the garage and been burning. Problem is my wife is too nervous about the inspectors. Anyway, the insurance doesn't have a problem with it at all, the city engineer doesn't have a problem. The building & zoning inspector says I can't have it in the garage in the open. I would have to build a small room around it. Their issue is with the "open flame" of a wood burner, period. And lastly, the state is against anything that's not ASME certified and UL listed. But I've seen in some posts and I called EKO USA and they say it's UL listed, but unfortunately not ASME certified.
stee6043
Minister of Fire
If you tell the inspector you're planning on running an open (non-pressurized) system he may very well be okay with it not being ASME...
Well now I'm looking at the EconoBurn and WoodGun. I'm leaning toward the EconoBurn but I'm not sure why. The inspector seems like a real stickler for the ASME certification. No give there. I even looked at the LDJ A-Maize-ing Heat corn boiler, but then I got a look at the price of corn and pellets and I think I'd be money ahead to just turn my gas furnace up. There is also a place near here that has a boiler made by Royall manufacturing. It's not a gasification boiler but the final price would be awful close, so I kind of dismissed that one. The EconoBurn estimate I got is $10700. All I need is to install. That includes the pumps, heat exchangers and DHW plate exchanger. The WoodGun $9400 for the Stainless steel and $7400 for the carbon steel. Then I would need to buy all the extras, heat exchangers etc. The EconoBurn is $2000 more than the EKO estimate but it has the coveted ASME stamp that my wife wants. Not to mention that she's a little irritated with the salesman of the EKO for not telling us about the ASME certification being mandatory in the state of Michigan. So I guess I'd like to hear from anybody that has had some experience with the EconoBurn 150. Thanks again for all your input on this. Everybody has been a huge help in getting us this far along in the boiler battle. I will have one burning wood this season if it kills me, and it may! lol.
Well it looks like we have to go with an ASME certified boiler. I just want to know if the EconoBurn will be a good boiler. My head is spinning from all the research and input that I've gotten on everything, but I appreciate all of it. I just hate the thought of shelling out $11,000 and ending up with a lemon. Or I should say, with something that we won't be happy with. This is the final stage before I pull the trigger and want to get an OK I guess. lol. Again I plan on running it without storage the first year and then in the summer installing 500 to 800 gallons of storage. Thanks again for all your input.
muncybob
Minister of Fire
If you've done your research here I think you will find several very happy Econoburn owners. While I never did get to see one in person they do appear to be a well built product and it seems the company does stand behind them.
I think it's hard to say if you'll be "happy" with whatever you buy since you really don't know what you are getting into until the boiler is installed and you begin to learn how to use it. This is where I am at with my relatively new Wood Gun and I can say I'm getting "happier" all the time.
I think it's hard to say if you'll be "happy" with whatever you buy since you really don't know what you are getting into until the boiler is installed and you begin to learn how to use it. This is where I am at with my relatively new Wood Gun and I can say I'm getting "happier" all the time.
muncybob
Minister of Fire
It's one of the banners you see here frequently...or...
http://www.alternateheatingsystems.com/
I have a thread started about my limited experience thus far. Good luck!! It took me well over a year to make my decision. Space limitations into my basement bulkhead was a partial deciding factor for me.
http://www.alternateheatingsystems.com/
I have a thread started about my limited experience thus far. Good luck!! It took me well over a year to make my decision. Space limitations into my basement bulkhead was a partial deciding factor for me.
wantstoburnwood
Member
Well Lar-Bud I installed an econoburn 150 last fall and I am very happy with my investment. I heat a 2700 sq. ft house and a 24x28 car garage. No storage, I only burned about 6 cords of maple last year. It took a few firings to get used to a gasssifier but I would never go back to the old smoker boilers. My wife isn't so adamant sbout the asme certifications but she was nervous just the same. I have her firing it up on the evenings that I work late.
Thanks wantstoburnwood, and everybody else for your replies. As of now it's going to be the WoodGun 100. My HVAC guy is supposed to call tonight so we can get our figures together and I'll order it tomorrow. That's IF he gets me the info I need. I want to go with the DHW coil option. Does anyone have that here? I was just wondering if it works good. Thanks again. Hopefully by this time tomorrow my boiler will be well on it's way to being built.
Gooserider
Mod Emeritus
Lar-Bud said:
I think I've seen a couple people with DHW coil WG's saying they were happy with them... I would use it as an indirect to heat your DHW tank, rather than trying to plumb it directly... It also seems to work best if you "supercharge" the DHW tank to as hot as practical (180-190*F) and then use a mix valve set at 110-120* to draw off of the tank... This will have the effect of giving you a much greater supply of hot water than you would expect from a given size tank. If doing this, one of our other members, NoFossil, suggests a particular Honeywell valve that he says tracks closer to the set temps than most of the other models he's looked at.
Gooserider
Gooserider said:
If you already have a fossil boiler with a tankless coil that you'll be tying into you won't need another in the Wood Gun. If you're not going to burn 24/7, then setting as Goose suggested will give you more domestic H2O between firings. A mixing valve is always a good idea when you get above 120.
Well the HVAC guy still hasn't gotten back to me so I think I'll have to start getting things rolling on my own. My main thing I'm worried about is that I want to be able to get a price estimate on the various pumps and exchangers that I need. If it's way too much I won't order the boiler. And they're starting production on the ASME WoodGuns today. But I'm not sure what size or type pumps I need or how many. We've got a natural gas water heater and I'd like to get as much hot water as possible so that's why I was thinking of going with the coil. Any ideas on what I need as for pumps and valves etc.
What I want to do is install the boiler right where the exsisting 6" gas furnace vent is in the garage. I want to put a heat exchanger w/blower in the garage, with one in the plenum of the natural gas forced air furnace in the basement. Which sits next to the water heater that is natural gas also. I also want to utilize the hot water coil option on the WoodGun to heat my water. My big question is what type, size and how many pumps, valves and heat exchangers do I need? Actually I know I need 2 heat exchangers but I need to get a ballpark figure on these parts before I order today. Any ideas?
What I want to do is install the boiler right where the exsisting 6" gas furnace vent is in the garage. I want to put a heat exchanger w/blower in the garage, with one in the plenum of the natural gas forced air furnace in the basement. Which sits next to the water heater that is natural gas also. I also want to utilize the hot water coil option on the WoodGun to heat my water. My big question is what type, size and how many pumps, valves and heat exchangers do I need? Actually I know I need 2 heat exchangers but I need to get a ballpark figure on these parts before I order today. Any ideas?
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Gooserider
Mod Emeritus
The numbers I've seen suggest that the hardware costs for the stuff to hook up a boiler will run about 25% of the cost of the boiler, but this is very much of a guess for any particular setup....
Actually looking at your layout, I'd be tempted to say not to get the DHW coil (which I believe can be retrofit later if you decide you want it - double check w/ WG) as I think that would make your system more complex than it needs to be...
With your setup, I would probably consider doing something on the order of:
1. Get a storage tank to use for DHW, ~80-100 gallons - avoid using the NG heater for this as NG heaters have horrible standby losses due to the flue up the center. You could use an electric heater, (possibly w/o connecting the electric part) or one of the purpose built "superstore" type units. Put a mix valve on the DHW outlet of the tank. (BTW, if the tank temps can exceed 120*F, a mix valve isn't just "reccomended", it is REQUIRED by code)
2. Either get rid of the NG tank heater, and replace it with a tankless or other backup, or plumb to just use the NG as the heater during the non-burning months. I would probably use a tankless plumbed to act as a supplemental WH if the storage tank isn't hot enough.
3. Plumb the storage tank w/ a sidearm or flat plate exchanger (or even better, use a tank w/ a built in HX coil) and plumb the boiler as a two zone system - one zone being the water heater, and the other being the plenum HX. Design so that if the WG is hotter than the storage tank, you flow through the tank, or bypass if it's cooler.
This would greatly simplify the plumbing and I think get rid of all but one or two of the pumps.
Gooserider
Actually looking at your layout, I'd be tempted to say not to get the DHW coil (which I believe can be retrofit later if you decide you want it - double check w/ WG) as I think that would make your system more complex than it needs to be...
With your setup, I would probably consider doing something on the order of:
1. Get a storage tank to use for DHW, ~80-100 gallons - avoid using the NG heater for this as NG heaters have horrible standby losses due to the flue up the center. You could use an electric heater, (possibly w/o connecting the electric part) or one of the purpose built "superstore" type units. Put a mix valve on the DHW outlet of the tank. (BTW, if the tank temps can exceed 120*F, a mix valve isn't just "reccomended", it is REQUIRED by code)
2. Either get rid of the NG tank heater, and replace it with a tankless or other backup, or plumb to just use the NG as the heater during the non-burning months. I would probably use a tankless plumbed to act as a supplemental WH if the storage tank isn't hot enough.
3. Plumb the storage tank w/ a sidearm or flat plate exchanger (or even better, use a tank w/ a built in HX coil) and plumb the boiler as a two zone system - one zone being the water heater, and the other being the plenum HX. Design so that if the WG is hotter than the storage tank, you flow through the tank, or bypass if it's cooler.
This would greatly simplify the plumbing and I think get rid of all but one or two of the pumps.
Gooserider
Well we did it! I just got off the phone with Mike from Alternate Heating Systems in PA. We ordered the WoodGun E-100 w/o the DHW coil, w/the 4 hr. cycle timer and the ASME certification. His best guess is that it should ship sometime on the week of the 16th. I'll try to keep you posted on the progress of the install and the operation. Thank you all for your help, the Hearth really is an invaluable resource. Thanks again.
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