Thinking of buying a new saw, worried about safety

[CTburning]

Hello, I am a novice with a chain saw but learning quickly. I purchased a Poulan 42cc with a 18'' bar. It was one of those day after thanksgiving specials with a case and sharpner for $99.95 deals but looks just like the Poulan Wild Thing. I love the saw. My neighboor is amazed at how fast it will rip through green Red Oak. The problem is I have to keep the blade super sharp for it to cut at all. I immediately purchased a Home Depot replacement chain because the one that came with the saw went dull within 30 seconds of meeting Red Oak. I am assuming it is safety chain as it is just a made in China Home Depot run of the mill chain. The problem is I can only make 2 or 3 cuts in 20"+ Red Oak before the chain becomes dull and you can feel it stop cutting. The wood is not dirty and I am not hitting the ground with the chain. The trees are just dense and dulling the blade. So finally I am getting to the question. I can not make this saw kick back no matter what stupid stuff I do with the blade. I am afraid that a 290 Farm Boss or 455 Rancher will not be nearly as forgiving. I am assuming that more power and bigger teeth= more kickback. My questions are am I right is assuming that a bigger saw with a chiesel tooth blade be more likely to kick back than my smaller saw? I'm assuming that is what safety chain is, anti-kickback, right? It is not a matter of strength. I hate using my Milwaukee Skill saw because it kicked back on me one time. No injury but I guess it is just a mental thing. I am also assuming that a chisel chain will stay sharp MUCH longer than my Home Depot Chain. Thanks

 

[Jake]

I've never experienced kickback. I think that as long as you use the saw in a responsible manner, you'll be fine. A good chain will stay sharper longer too

 

[Backroads]

Kickback can be a real eye opener :bug: ! It's not usually the saw that causes the kickback though, it's how the saw is used that causes the kickback. If you take precautions you can cut safely with a 290/455.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

Pick up some files and learn to file. When you become a good filer with that saw and upgrade you will find your chains will always be sharp.

Walmart sells Oregon chains for that saw. Pretty good quality. My father uses the same saw.


Matt

 

[peakbagger]

I hope this come over the right way, but are you absolutely sure that the chain never touches the ground? A lot of new chain saw folks cut directly on the ground and may not have perfect control with the blade tip and it only takes just a few seconds to dull a chain.

 

[daveswoodhauler]

I think I am running into the sam exact thing you do with the safety chains....I have cut a piece of log/wood in every way possible, and have never had it kick back..so I think it has a lot to do with the chain. I am going to go to my dealer to get a semi chisel chain for my Craftsman, as cutting oak I run into the same problem....pine and maple I can usually get a good tank 1/2 of cutting, but oak seems to dull the chain a lot. Good luck./

 

[smokinj]

kick back happens more offten with a smaller saw when limbing the tree its the tip of the saw you want to be most concern about.
last week when limbing a norway maple I was cutting over my head shouldnt do that either but the tree shifted and through me back into a sommersault was not a good picture the bar was 2 in. from my face and the brake kick in I was able to throw the saw away from my body. I would rather fell a tree than buck it its much safer. I bought the stihl ppe shirt the chain was from my chest to the top of my head I was wearing chaps and helmet system. your chains you might try a semi cheisl chain from baileys there cheap enough keep 3-4 on hand and your day will go better

 

[Henz]

Truthfully, I think those cheaper saws like Poulin are worse for kickback than a Stihl or Husquvarna are. but any saw can give you kickback if used improperly

 

[Backwoods Savage]

First, are you sure the chain is dull? It just does not seem possible to dull a chain that soon. The reason I ask that too is because twice I've had new users of saws think their chains became dull because as they were cutting, suddenly it cut so slow when actually what happened was they were to the thickest part of the log and there you are just cutting more but the progress is slower. Look at the sawdust. If it is really fine, then you need to sharpen.

On kickback, I've seen it but never experienced it myself....and I've cut a lot. But even so, to my knowledge, you can't buy a saw today without the safety brake so if you had kickback the chain would stop running.

I will also say there will be a world of difference between the 290 Farm Boss and that Poulan. You would love the 290. If you do change, while at the dealer's place, ask for one of the dremel tools and stones for sharpening. Fast and very easy to sharpen a chain with one of these.

For the naysayers, I too sharpened many chains with files until my hands just won't take that any longer. I just wish I'd started using the dremel many years ago as it does a fine job. The only thing you must be careful on other than angel is to not hold that thing very long on a tooth to burn it.

 

[CTburning]

Thanks for all the replies. The one thing I am sure of is that the chain is dull. I have become a pro a sharpening the chainsaw. After a couple of cuts I found a nice stump and in five minutes it is RAZOR sharp. I make my own primitive archery equipment and learned how to sharpen tools from an old timer years ago. I also nicked the ground a couple of times which instantly dulled the chain. Quickly started carrying the file with me rather than walk back down to the shed! I stretched myself pretty thin by buying the Fireview this year. I ran out of wood last winter on Jan 15 using the old Garrison I. That will not happen again. I am now sitting on 5.5 cords c/s/s and should be sitting pretty this coming winter. My dilema is this. I need to take out 5 large Maples and 3 large Red Oaks this fall for a dwarf orchard I intend to plant in the spring. Should I spend the $400 on a new saw and let it sit idle for a couple of years after I am done with this project or should I tough it out with the Poulan and save the money. It really is a great little saw. Sure it is built cheap. The spring for the starter already unraveled and I had to pay to have it fixed ($12). The guy at the shop said it was pretty rare and was because it was a Home depot special. I keep going back and forth on what to do. Let me know what you think, thanks

 

[smokinj]

Thanks for all the replies. The one thing I am sure of is that the chain is dull. I have become a pro a sharpening the chainsaw. After a couple of cuts I found a nice stump and in five minutes it is RAZOR sharp. I make my own primitive archery equipment and learned how to sharpen tools from an old timer years ago. I also nicked the ground a couple of times which instantly dulled the chain. Quickly started carrying the file with me rather than walk back down to the shed! I stretched myself pretty thin by buying the Fireview this year. I ran out of wood last winter on Jan 15 using the old Garrison I. That will not happen again. I am now sitting on 5.5 cords c/s/s and should be sitting pretty this coming winter. My dilema is this. I need to take out 5 large Maples and 3 large Red Oaks this fall for a dwarf orchard I intend to plant in the spring. Should I spend the $400 on a new saw and let it sit idle for a couple of years after I am done with this project or should I tough it out with the Poulan and save the money. It really is a great little saw. Sure it is built cheap. The spring for the starter already unraveled and I had to pay to have it fixed ($12). The guy at the shop said it was pretty rare and was because it was a Home depot special. I keep going back and forth on what to do. Let me know what you think, thanks

how big are the trees

 

[daveswoodhauler]

Just my opinion for what its worth.
If you only need to take down the remaining trees you mentioned, and are cutting 1-2 cords or so a year a year, I would keep the saw, take it to a dealer and get a non safety chain, and save the $450 or so on a saw and get some nice trees for your grove. (Kinda doing a similar thing at my property, although not exactly, and this is the decision I came up with....hope it works)

 

[CTburning]

Maples are no big deal, 16" at base but quickly bifurcate into smaller limbs. The Oaks are also bifurcated at the base with each trunk being 20" or so for about 80 ft.

 

[Highbeam]

I have used a poulan wild thing for the last 5+ years clearing brush and cutting well over 20 cords of firewood. They are a seriously good value. There is nothing wrong with a poulan but a fancy Stihl is better in a few ways.

A couple of things I learned from my poulan: Don't buy any chain from a big box store. It will be safety chain and it will suck. Go to a saw shop and buy the proper non-safety chain for your saw. I never lacked the power to pull the chain with my poulan and the aggressive chain is much better. Keep the air filter clean.

All saws can kick back with no saw being much more likely than another. Bar length and chain style are the variables that effect this.

I recently bought a stihl MS290 when my pull rope broke for the second time and when I needed too much field work on the saw. It had become unreliable as a primary saw so I bought a stihl as a long term firewood tool. It cost 4x what the poulan did and I hope it lasts for 20 years when it breaks even economically. The ease of use and power will make those 20 years more pleasant.

 

[karri0n]

I agree with the people saying get a real chain for the poulan from a dealer that carries husqvarna saws. I went to a dealer that carried ONLY stihl and they didn't have one for it, then went to one that carries husqvarna and.... echo maybe??? whichever it was, they had an actual chain shop there and gave me a semi-chisel for my poulan wild thing 18inch bar. Difference was major. It hasn't kicked on me.

 

[Bigg_Redd]

Pick up some files and learn to file. When you become a good filer with that saw and upgrade you will find your chains will always be sharp.

Walmart sells Oregon chains for that saw. Pretty good quality. My father uses the same saw.


Matt

x2.

All saws suck with a dull chain. Even Dolmers.

 

[Wet1]

CT,
Get a new full chisel/full comp chain for your saw if that's all the cutting you intend to do going forward. Send me a PM this fall when you're ready to do the larger oaks and I'll come over and buck them up for you if you're not too far from me.

OTOH, if you plan of processing several cords every year going forward, it might be worth it to by a bigger and better saw now since you'll always want and need it in the future. You can often find some good deals on used Stihls, Huskys, and Dolmars. I'd suggest going with something with at least 60cc since you already have a smaller saw. There will always be that one bigger tree you'll want to tackle...

 

[ManiacPD]

Stick the the Poulan.

Get a chisel chain (aka, non-safety chain) for it.

Keep the chisel chain sharp. Make sure you've got the angles correct. I read about your experience sharpening tools but I can tell you first hand that if the angles aren't right it will cut pretty well but dull quickly.

When I'm cutting wood the only difference between my 345 and the XP is the time it takes to get through the log. Your 42cc Poulan, if you have time, is all the saw you need. A good chisel chain will wake it up.

To your OP, a small saw with a dull chain will kick back more than big saw with a sharp chain. More importantly learn what causes kick back and how to avoid getting into those situations. Never engage the bar using only the top 90 degrees of the nose roller and you'll be well on your way.

 

[daveswoodhauler]

Here is a good site for Oregon Chains...most dealers in your area will carry them.

(broken link removed)

When I used the bar selector, it came back with a safety chain for my Craftsman saw.....just email thier tech service department @

OREGON®
(503) 653-4706
(800) 223-5168
[email protected]

Or, once you have chain model you need, go to:

http://www.amickssuperstore.com/

They have good prices on chains.....just bought 2 for $12.95 each.

Good luck

 

[kevin j]

+1 with above.

I'd add, if you have any question or fears of a 'bigger' saw, then I'd say mentally stay with what you have. Obviously some serious respect is s good thing, complacency a bad thing, but fear is also a bad thing. Get this one cutting well, get some time under your belt, and it will become obvious when you feel ready to move up a class. Sort of like motorcycling competitions.

If you can, get some in person training from someone, it will boost confidence and eliminate getting any bad habits really solidified. Easier to learn right than have to unlearn bad first.
And not very long you will want a faster saw, but that point will be obvious to you.

42cc is nothing to sneeze at. I cut a long time for 3 households with a poulan top handle 30 cc and a David Bradley gear drive 28 inch. Would drive me nuts now, but I would have been in heaven on earth with a new Poulan wildthing.

Anyway, the key is keep it well tuned, get the most power out of it, run a small bar, and have a SHARP chain on it. Chisel is great, but it depends on your wood sources and personal ability to file it. I use chisel for green wood, or out in center of tree stands, but any city or boundary trees here have a lot of dirt and grit grown into the wood from wind and farm land dirt. So I am moving a lot back to semi chisel.

Small chains are cheap, you need a half dozen anyway, so buy a couple of each from Amicks, Baileys, madsens, etc and see what you like and can file well. Even if you don't like one, you will use it up and not waste money. Or keep it for when there just might be some metal fencing in that tree..... Get the files, the guides, some small plastic bucking wedges, and all the other doodads that make it easier and safer.

.02
kcj

 

[Gooserider]

I totally agree with all the previous suggestions about going with pro-grade, non-safety chain. My personal preference is a full chisel, even needing to sharpen more often, but that's a personal choice issue.

I also agree with the comments that a sharp chain will be safer than a dull one.

Two other thoughts I haven't seen mentioned -

1. Sounds like you have good expertise on sharpening the teeth, but are you also properly filing the rakers when you do so? Remember that because of the angle on the top plate of the cutters, the teeth get shorter as you sharpen them, so you need to check, and usually file down the rakers every 3-5 times you sharpen the teeth, sometimes more often depending on how much metal you take off the teeth. Having the wrong raker height can cause sharp chains to cut like they are dull...

2. It sounds to me like your saw is significantly over-barred... A good rule of thumb I've seen is that you should have 3-4cc of engine for every inch of bar length... For a 42cc engine, that is a 14" bar, not an 18" bar! Pro-saws get a little more power out of a cc, so they can push this limit a bit, but not that far. Consumer grade saws like a Poulan definitely should stick with it, but most places sell their saws with a tremendous over-barring...
It takes a good bit of horspower just to drag the chain around the bar, an amount that goes up greatly with bar length, and any power that goes to moving the chain isn't going to cutting wood.

When I got my 36cc Pull-on, it came with a 16" bar, and always cut badly, no matter how sharp my chain was, it was slow, tended to bog down, and generally performed poorly. I re-barred to a 12" bar w/ pro-chain, and while it is still a pain to start, it now cuts like a little wood eating monster, good for limbing and cutting up the small stuff.

Even w/ my Dolmar 7900, at 79cc, when slightly over-barring it to 28" (2.8cc/inch) it cuts great, but not as good as when I'm running my 20" bar (3.95cc/inch) - that combo cuts red oak like the "wonder knives" on TV infomercials cut tomatoes... :coolgrin:

I would recommend rebarring that saw to 14" with pro-chain (minor advantage, shorter bars and chain loops cost less) and using that combo for as much of your work as you can. If a 14" bar isn't enough for the logs you have to cut (IMHO a 14" bar should easily handle 18-24" diameter logs, and is theoretically good for up to 28") then, while you could but the 18" bar back on, it might be worth looking at a bigger saw, probably something in the 70-80cc class. (and for saws that big, it's worth going for a pro-grade saw)

Gooserider

 

[firefighterjake]

It's not how many ccs a chainsaw has or the type of chain that makes it more or less dangerous . . . it's all in how the user handles the saw (experience) and what the user wears for safety gear. Sharp or dull chain, full chisel or safety chain, small Poulan saw or large Husky . . . if mishandled whether through inexperience or bad luck . . . a small Poulan (or even an electric saw) with a dull (or sharp) safety chain can kill or maim an operator as fast as a person using a large Stihl with a sharp (or dull) full chisel chain.

 

[mayhem]

If you're cutting into pure red oak and its not dirty and you're not hitting the ground of any rocks and the chains till gtes dull quickly, I think you need to stop buying cheap chains. The metal may be part of your problem. I have a Craftman version of essentially the same saw (18" bar, 42cc, etc...probably the exact same saw for all I know) and use oregon safety chanins (because I'm slightly cheap and haven't sprung for semi-chisel or full chisel yet) and my chains are good for an awful lot of cutting between sharpenings.

Try a good quality chain and see if things improve...I bet it helps.

Your saw is fully capapbel of doing what you need to do.