To OAK or not to Oak

  • Active since 1995, Hearth.com is THE place on the internet for free information and advice about wood stoves, pellet stoves and other energy saving equipment.

    We strive to provide opinions, articles, discussions and history related to Hearth Products and in a more general sense, energy issues.

    We promote the EFFICIENT, RESPONSIBLE, CLEAN and SAFE use of all fuels, whether renewable or fossil.
Status
Not open for further replies.
the 80cfm intake number is pure fiction. In reality it's closer to 8.
I have a boiler and I believe I'm WAY closer to 80 cfm (size of a phone booth) ...I'll grant on a pellet stove with a "no load" rating of 80 cfm will not flow that when used in a stove....I'd estimate 60 though... No flame intended...:)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Harman man
I have a boiler and I believe I'm WAY closer to 80 cfm (size of a phone booth) ...I'll grant on a pellet stove with a "no load" rating of 80 cfm will not flow that when used in a stove....I'd estimate 60 though... No flame intended...:)
None taken! But that's still exhaust flow. What I'm saying is that intake airflow is not equal to exhaust flow.

80 cfm of combustion air would support around a half-million BTU/hr. Pellet stoves run leaner than stochiometric, but not by a factor of 10.
 
You guys made a believer out of me;em, have the kit for my stove might be putting it in for next season.:cool: I guess some of the "know it all" personalities rubbed me the wrong way::-)
 
  • Like
Reactions: iceguy4
What I'm saying is that intake airflow is not equal to exhaust flow.
Yes, I know combustion increases exhaust flow over intake flow. I kinda going by what I "feel" on the intake outside. My airflow is significant . BUT I have a boiler capable of twice the BTU's of most stoves. I haven't spent more then 1/2 an hour in the presence of a running pellet stove.
 
Well, just throwing my 2 cents worth in here. I have 2 stoves.....see my signature. Way back in the 80's I piped in outside air to a register in front of my Buck insert.....no OAK connection then. When I put in my new EPA Hampton, of course it had the capability to connect an OAK. I didn't. Instead, I put a small air register, 4 in round, in the floor just under the back of the stove where combustion air enters, connected to the same 8 in outside air intake going to my Buck. In both locations it of course introduces outside air that is cold, but with these outside air make up registers, I never have a problem with kitchen, bath exhaust causing problems with my stoves, except when the wife gets all 3 of them going at once :confused:, and then sometimes. Both registers can be closed. It has worked well for me.
 
  • Like
Reactions: iceguy4
Way back in the 80's I piped in outside air to a register in front of my Buck insert.....no OAK connection then.

Sounds like you were WAY ahead of your time!! ! although your system works it doesn't address risks due to a forced exhaust system in a power failure.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Harman man
forced exhaust system in a power failure.
Sorry, but I don't understand that. We have had many power failures in my 40 years of burning and never had any problems. What is a "forced exhaust system"? and how does a power failure play into it?
 
  • Like
Reactions: iceguy4
Pellet stove Chief. Intake air and exhaust are driven by a combustion blower. Not natural draft. No electricity. No intake and no exhaust. Like switching your car off.
 
Pellet stove Chief. Intake air and exhaust are driven by a combustion blower. Not natural draft. No electricity. No intake and no exhaust. Like switching your car off.
OK, I guess I didn't read enough of the thread.:confused:
 
  • Like
Reactions: Defiant
It has gotten derailed with the entrance of boiler talk. Iced as it were.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Defiant and iceguy4
Like switching your car off.
Exactly BB ...But I'm not sure if chief has a pellet rig and understands the air intake can "belch" smoke out in such a situation.. something a "natural draft" wood stove would almost NEVER do.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Harman man
Exactly BB ...But I'm not sure if chief has a pellet rig and understands the air intake can "belch" smoke out in such a situation.. something a "natural draft" wood stove would almost NEVER do.
Nope, no pellet stoves. Sorry I didn't read enough of the thread to know what I was talking about. My apologies.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Defiant
Here's my 'back of the envelope' analysis.
Disclaimer; This is from a newb who just cracked open his 4th ton of pellets. I am waiting for the roof to clear so that I can install an OAK.
Pellet stoves use a fair amount of air for combustion. Those figures run up to 80cfm. Take whatever number you think is right. For the sake of this argument I'll use 25cfm. In a 24 hour period the stove will use 36,000 cubic feet of air. My house is 3200 square feet. I'm going to use an average ceiling height of 10'. That would mean my house is aprox. 32,000 cubic feet.
If my stove is using 36,000 cubic feet of air every 24 hours that would mean that it is emptying the house 1.1 times per day. Lets round that to 1 and say that once per day the air in my house is being replaced with cold outside air. ( I realize this is not 100% true because the air mixes but for this calculation lets ignore that)
Lets say its 70 degrees inside my house and its 20 outside. If I turned the air over in the house without running the stove the temperature in the house would drop to 20 degrees. Virtually the same as the outside temperature. On average that drop is about 2 degrees per hour. I have no idea how much impact that will have on our stoves but clearly it will have some impact. No?


Hampton GCI60, 3 tons of Granules LG down and 3 tons of Cleanfire Pacific to go.
 
If my stove is using 36,000 cubic feet of air every 24 hours that would mean that it is emptying the house 1.1 times per day. Lets round that to 1 and say that once per day the air in my house is being replaced with cold outside air. ( I realize this is not 100% true because the air mixes but for this calculation lets ignore that)
Lets say its 70 degrees inside my house and its 20 outside. If I turned the air over in the house without running the stove the temperature in the house would drop to 20 degrees. Virtually the same as the outside temperature. On average that drop is about 2 degrees per hour. I have no idea how much impact that will have on our stoves but clearly it will have some impact. No?

You're on the right track. Let me do the math for you.

Facts:
::DT temperature _________50::F______________________ 70::F inside, 20::F outside; ::DT= 50::F
Volume________________36000 cu ft/day_______________25 cfm on 24 hours/day (it is likely that the combustion blower is only running part of the time. See below)
Density of air at STP______0.07967 pounds per cubic foot___The number of pounds of air in one cubic foot at standard temperature and pressure
Specific heat of air at STP__0.24 BTU/lb/degree F__________The amount of heat needed to raise one pound of air by one degree F at standard temperature and pressure

Math:
Volume x Density x Specific heat x ::DTtemperature = 36,000 x 0.07967 x 0.24 x 50 = 34,417 BTU/day

34,417 (BTU/day) / 8300 (BTU/lb) / 76% efficiency = 5.456 lbs/day of pellets

Conclusion:
That comes to 0.136 bags of pellets a day to reheat the air that is wasted without an OAK
Even with cheap pellets that's about $0.60/day or $18/month
It gets worse with colder outside temperatures.
If for instance it was 5::F outside, the cost becomes $0.773/day

If your stove's combustion blower is not on 24 hours a day, the cost will be proportionately less. If it is on 20% of the time the cost would be $3.60/month in pellets.


For those who don't want an OAK, it's your choice. Do as you please.:ZZZ


Edit:
Did some formatting because the spaces were removed by the forum software
Edit
Corrected math, off by a factor of 10
 
Last edited:
Your right I used 0.7967 instead of 0.07967. Will edit

Regardless it is an additional $18 a month in one pocket. I would rather keep it for myself then give that money to someone else.
 
Anybody care to touch on OAK placement..... (outside location vs exhaust)
and termination types or filters ???
 
Anybody care to touch on OAK placement..... (outside location vs exhaust)
and termination types or filters ???

To keep the wind from causing problems, it's best for the OAK to go through the same wall (or the roof) as your exhaust. Keep the OAK below the exhaust vent termination, but above any snow drifts.
 
To keep the wind from causing problems, it's best for the OAK to go through the same wall (or the roof) as your exhaust. Keep the OAK below the exhaust vent termination, but above any snow drifts.

So the theory is hot air rises, which will keep the exhaust (gases) above the OAK ?
 
How about this question.

I want to do and OAK....use double walled galvanized steel and place it vertically in the wall and then go out the rim joist. Anyone see a problem with that?
 
How about this question.

I want to do and OAK....use double walled galvanized steel and place it vertically in the wall and then go out the rim joist. Anyone see a problem with that?
That would require that the rim insulation (if you have any) be compromised. It may result in a cold spot where the ceiling meets the wall.
How is that better than just going out through the wall?
 
That would require that the rim insulation (if you have any) be compromised. It may result in a cold spot where the ceiling meets the wall.
How is that better than just going out through the wall?

the wall is below grade and is 8" thick of concrete......

i don't think it can be any worse than the vent or the exhaust going out the rim joist.

i am just wondering it will be safe?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.