Tulikivi owners

[ChuckDay]

In northern Michigan and just inherited a beautiful Tulikivi fireplace with our new house. I love it so far, but would like to hear from other Tulikivi owners to learn best practices, maintenance, things to avoid, etc. I have a model TU2200. According to my chimney tech., these are pretty rare.

 

[Todd]

Nice! Love those masonry heaters. Not too many people around here heating with these. How much square footage are you heating with it? I’ve done a little research into these and they’re a different animal than a regular fireplace or wood stove. You burn them wide open with a full load of wood once or twice per day and let the radiant heat from the stone do it’s thing.

 

[yooperdave]

Never saw one in action. I worked on a house that was installing one; it was new construction from the ground up house. There was a lot of support for in in the basement as I remember.

 

[begreen]

A friend had one built up in Alaska. It's a beautiful stove. It was too warm when I was there, but he said they fired it up usually twice a day with a hot fire in the morning and at night.

 

[KDubU]

I had a custom built masonry heater in our old home outside Alexandria, Ontario. They are simple to manage, build large fires and burn hot to heat up the mass. Ash there was usually very little for us but depending on the wood you are burning, empty once every couple days. Leave any coals behind as they will help start your next fire one you stack in all your wood and close the door with air open. I so wish I still had the masonry heater….nothing compares to them.

Depending on the age of it, you may need to replace fire bricks eventually.

 

[kennyp2339]

One of the biggest questions I have with them is the shut down procedure, there's no doubt that they work well, but I've watched videos were people fire a big load then after the fire is almost down to coals they shut down the air to keep the draft low so the heat doesnt seep out of the chimney?

 

[KDubU]

Once the fire has burned down to coals, yup shutdown the air as the mass has heated up and will continue to radiant for many hours.

 

[qwee]

I don't own a Tulikivi but do have a masonry heater. Your heater weighs around 4000 pounds - so it is sized as small-medium. It is on an outer wall and the house has cathedral ceilings. Also, you are in a cold area. So, this must be part of the heating solution for this house unless your house is small and well insulated.

You'll probably be burning 2 fires a day in the winter if you want it to do some heating. You can build a tee-pee type of fire in the firebox. This will allow you to get more wood in there. An 'inferno' type fire works in masonry heaters. That is big, fast, and hot (when wanted).

There is an air damper high or low on that heater. Open it at the start of the burn. Close it at the end of the burn. You might want to use an alarm to remind you when the fire is likely to be done. If the damper is left open heat is drafted up and out the chimney.

You appear to have three clean-outs, two low and one in the middle (maybe four). Pop these little round doors off and insert a vacuum nozzle to suck out ashes. Do this once or twice a year. Of course, burn dry wood (<20% moisture content). Also there is some way to let air into the fire. I don't see any little twisties/vents on the door so it must be the ash door that lets air in. /maybe there is a little slide at the bottom of the fire door.

 

[ctreitzell]

we visited a local (Le Mans, France) fireplace / heating vendor yesterday and the rep was suggesting Tulikivi for our purposes...she had a lot of photos of various installs they've done over the years

the house we plan to build later this year is about 5000sqft footprint and we already live in the adjoining barn conversion

I did see this @ChuckDay OP last month and had thought this was a US brand, but, no...it's Finnish

We may opt for a couple of these in the massive buildings we have...I have a lot of wood, but not living in a forest amounts...I have lots of space to store drying wood and intend to build more. Since we'll be building in stages, it's likely we'll be looking at a huge roof with a shell of some type and a massive area to heat. It's not overly cold, here...but some type of heating is usually required for about 6 mos of the year

and my Mrs loves the idea of cooking with one of the pizza ovens

the rep said these are great at heating stone walls and we do have too many of those

further, I discussed EcoDesign 2022 with the rep a bit and she said that edict has gov't wanting the Sims to burn less...which these masonry stoves apparently support

so, using less wood for more efficient heat...seems like a no brainer for us

 

[begreen]

These are large and heavy masonry stoves. Operating them is akin to running a giant flywheel. They release heat slowly and are not great for quick warmups or cooldowns. They need a hot fire to get them up to temp then cruise, slowly releasing the stored heat energy. Typically this is done twice a day morning and night. The downside is when the day starts out gloomy and cold, but then the sun come out, warming everything up, but the fireplace is still releasing heat. Or when one comes back from vacation to a cold house, it may take a day or two to warm it back up. And, they are expensive. I am dubious about the pizza oven option. Baking yes, but pizza ovens are best when quite hot inside (700ºF) and not with the slow steady heat of a masonry stove.

I a big old stone barn I think I would want a good, large wood stove for general heating and a wood cook stove in the kitchen. That provides more flexibility and the steady warmth in the kitchen plus the infinite heat of the wood stove cooktop is hard to beat.

 

[ctreitzell]

OK, so we are back to planning our build in our "big old stone barns" in the French countryside

I don't want to hijack @ChuckDay thread, but then starting a new Tulikivi thread seems not in order yet, so...

When I was posting last winter, we believed we could demolish and rebuild our barn ruin, but local gov't and meetings with our project manager/ general contractor (it is a different approach here, in France, where the Maitere D'Oeuvre manages the build and finances). I was demoing the roof of the ruin...got about 2/3 done and was told to stop. Turns out new legislation I was not aware of says that if there is no roof; there is no building. That was not the situation when we bought the place and have had to go into admin mode to regain our change of use that we previously had.

Further, the Maitre D'Oeuvre informed us of much higher taxation on rebuilds as compared to renovations (15-20% higher tax).

So, we are working out floorplans and exterior grading and building positions. The buildings are pretty large: two buildings which are each roughly 30M x 6.5M with potential for two levels everywhere.

In amongst all that, really the heating is system is of paramount focus before setting the floorplans in stone.

We plan on having some large spaces, yet there are audio concerns due to my wanting a critical listening workstation area (mix studio), a live (music recording) room which will be a library/ dining room/ meeting space as well, and a separate cinema.

So, how to heat all the spaces without open plan? We will have two separate households as well, so two big soap stone Tulikivi in each kit/ great room is a consideration.

And then a pellet/ wood furnace for hot water central heating? It would be a shame to lose the wood burning stove, I probably should have a couple of those. And there will be exterior covered firepit area too as we will be adding a lot of covered porch and balconies as it rains a lot here.

I have wood, but not that much wood. I have a couple oaks which must be topped this coming spring, so even more oak coming in. But that won't last forever. I do also have a friend who need to take down a lot of sick trees on his property which will probably add to the stocks as I'll likely help him clear. And I have a lot of firewood from the roof demo. Burning less in the Tulikivi seems like an efficient approach, yet I've heard (from the vendor) the Tulikivis only want some quick burn fuel like pallet pine. I have a lot of hardwood to burn too. Hence the furnace idea.

I'm interested in all opinions here. I'm looking forward to decommissioning the Pandero...and might install it correctly somewhere in the building.

 

[stoveliker]

I'd go for some hydronic heat version.
You'll need a LOT of wood regardless of what you are going with. Some branches and a dead tree here or there won't make it thru one winter.

You need to identify a consistent much larger quantity of wood supply before proceeding with a wood fired system, imo.

 

[bigealta]

Sounds to me like a 6-8 cord a year burn rate could be a conservative estimate for those spaces?
Firepit would be the hungriest burner (aka the first place you'll cut back on burning when wood supply is not overly packed full.)

 

[EatenByLimestone]

If you’re looking for specific temperature control you may want to look at something like a mini split for your studio and keep the stove in the large common areas.

A stone building that large will be tough to get up to temperature and then keep it there. With compartments and 2 levels might make it impossible to heat with a single stove.

 

[begreen]

With a potential area of about 4,100 sq ft, the heating requirements being described I definitely would look at zoned heat pump systems. Heating that amount of space with wood will get old, quickly, especially if not well insulated in parts. Put a woodstove or high-efficiency fireplace in the area where most of the time will be spent and the fire view will be appreciated.

 

[ctreitzell]

I'd go for some hydronic heat version.
You'll need a LOT of wood regardless of what you are going with. Some branches and a dead tree here or there won't make it thru one winter.

You need to identify a consistent much larger quantity of wood supply before proceeding with a wood fired system, imo.

Yes, water central heating is what we know well as most homes in England are hydronic...and the first thing my wife suggested for piping heat around

thanks everyone for those super quick responses , I will look into them

as far as supply, wood is far and away less expensive than electricity here; I buy in the majority of my annual wood fuel anyway and am surrounded by thousands of hectares of forest...supply will not be a problem...there are many vendors

after I posted, I found this fairly recent vid
the long and short is I don't really want to make 2 or 4 fires per day!
I doubt I'll have a draft issue with the height of these buildings
but this vid has kind of put me off the Tulikivi since I posted

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Sounds to me like a 6-8 cord a year burn rate could be a conservative estimate for those spaces?
Firepit would be the hungriest burner (aka the first place you'll cut back on burning when wood supply is not overly packed full.)

Yes, I burned around 9-10 stairs (3 cords) last year in the third of the building in which we currently reside, so your estimate is quite conservative. In reality it might be double that with the two households. I also have continuous fuel hitting the ground here which I don't want to burn in the house and species like poplar and chestnut and that's what will find its way to the firepit

 

[ctreitzell]

If you’re looking for specific temperature control you may want to look at something like a mini split for your studio and keep the stove in the large common areas.

A stone building that large will be tough to get up to temperature and then keep it there. With compartments and 2 levels might make it impossible to heat with a single stove.

We don't really need consistent temp, mainly comfortable common areas...we've gotten quite accustomed to living in the cool temps....none of us enjoy tropical heat. These buildings are very thermally inefficient and we need to improve that too. I know there is no way to heat both buildings with a single stove.

Studio needs to be quiet ambient noise level...I do a lot of forensic audio day to day. Water can be noisy too...that will be the tricky space...possibly the tulikivi/ passive heat storage might be the smart move in there...acoustically it could be useful too....but I doubt it is sensible

 

[ctreitzell]

With a potential area of about 4,100 sq ft, the heating requirements being described I definitely would look at zoned heat pump systems. Heating that amount of space with wood will get old, quickly, especially if not well insulated in parts. Put a woodstove or high-efficiency fireplace in the area where most of the time will be spent and the fire view will be appreciated.

Most properties here are zoned heat pump and they burn "Fuel" which is an oil/ diesel product, which we want to avoid burning, because of cost and pollution. What powers the pump is another matter...my neighbor says his elec bill is always reasonable...ours isn't...water seems like a better option, but maybe because we have so much experience with it. Our houses in england are natural gas and those bills get pretty high too

 

[stoveliker]

re:wood quantity; okay. I was going off your remarks about pruning an oak.
It'll be a lot of work even if you have the wood. (Drying it sufficiently for 2-3 years means getting 21 cords ahead...?!!)

The fires in a masonry heater need to be lit, but in my understanding do not require much intervention other than when they are done (close the flue then to avoid heat escaping). I.e. light, burn at full bore, close the flue.
So it's 2 fires (or more) per day, but even (and quiet) heat.

A properly set up hydronic system does not need to make noise (neither from air in the lines nor from expanding pipes).
A boiler with thermal storage would do the job, I think. But it would also need to be fired at intervals, like a masonry heater.

I don't see another feasible wood-fired option.
If you want stoves (multiple), then even if you go with the largest available, you'd have to do reloads multiple times a day (even if you have them running on 24 hr cycles, you'll have more than 1 stove to load).
So attending to this multiple times a day is unavoidable when using wood.

Hence the electric minisplit heatpump suggestion. Set and forget.

 

[begreen]

Yes, water central heating is what we know well as most homes in England are hydronic...and the first thing my wife suggested for piping heat around

thanks everyone for those super quick responses , I will look into them

as far as supply, wood is far and away less expensive than electricity here; I buy in the majority of my annual wood fuel anyway and am surrounded by thousands of hectares of forest...supply will not be a problem...there are many vendors

after I posted, I found this fairly recent vid
the long and short is I don't really want to make 2 or 4 fires per day!
I doubt I'll have a draft issue with the height of these buildings
but this vid has kind of put me off the Tulikivi since I posted

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Yes, I burned around 9-10 stairs (3 cords) last year in the third of the building in which we currently reside, so your estimate is quite conservative. In reality it might be double that with the two households. I also have continuous fuel hitting the ground here which I don't want to burn in the house and species like poplar and chestnut and that's what will find its way to the firepit

An associate of mine heats exclusively with a Tulikivi in our similar climate. It looks great and can be nice heating but over time they have grown tired of it and are contemplating its removal and replacement with a freestanding stove and a heat pump.

In milder weather, heating with a Tulikivi can be tedious. As noted it's similar to a big flywheel that needs to be spun up to speed twice a day. That works ok in cold weather, but in spring and fall, the weather can be more unpredictable. The sun can come out, reducing the need for heat, but the flywheel is already spinning. Another issue is if one wants to go out to a show, or dinner and you come home late, missing the evening fire-up of the heater. It can take a day to rebalance the warmth in the house. Quick recovery is not possible like it is with a freestanding stove.

 

[begreen]

Most properties here are zoned heat pump and they burn "Fuel" which is an oil/ diesel product

?? A heat pump is "fueled" by electricity. In France, would this be from nuclear power?

 

[stoveliker]

There are (nat.)gas-based fridges too in Europe. At least there used to be, and there still are in campers.
Maybe it's similar to that if not a misunderstanding?

 

[begreen]

There are (nat.)gas-based fridges too in Europe. At least there used to be, and there still are in campers.
Maybe it's similar to that if not a misunderstanding?

Typically I think these are ammonia absorption type refrigerators. At least that's what I recall our campers having. I haven't heard of this being used for large heat pump systems but maybe in France? I did find info on them.

Absorption heat pump - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

This is not what I was suggesting. I was thinking a zoned system with a couple 2-3 ton air to air units by Daikin or Mitsubishi, though given the scale, a zoned-geothermal system could be worth considering.

 

[Jackson2000]

In northern Michigan and just inherited a beautiful Tulikivi fireplace with our new house. I love it so far, but would like to hear from other Tulikivi owners to learn best practices, maintenance, things to avoid, etc. I have a model TU2200. According to my chimney tech., these are pretty rare.

View attachment 321310

In northern Michigan and just inherited a beautiful Tulikivi fireplace with our new house. I love it so far, but would like to hear from other Tulikivi owners to learn best practices, maintenance, things to avoid, etc. I have a model TU2200. According to my chimney tech., these are pretty rare.

View attachment 321310

We have a 2200 also. It pairs well with our well insulated passive solar home in Southwest Montana. We typically fire it in the morning and in the evening November to February and once in the evening in March and April. In the summer months the chimney gets swept and the clean outs on the 2200 are opened and the interior is vacumed and brushed with a HEPA fireplace vac. Never any buildup of creosote, just
fly ash. The best size wood is three inches and never any round pieces. It doesn’t need anymore maintenance other than the annual cleaning and the weekly emptying of the ash.

 

[Todd]

We have a 2200 also. It pairs well with our well insulated passive solar home in Southwest Montana. We typically fire it in the morning and in the evening November to February and once in the evening in March and April. In the summer months the chimney gets swept and the clean outs on the 2200 are opened and the interior is vacumed and brushed with a HEPA fireplace vac. Never any buildup of creosote, just
fly ash. The best size wood is three inches and never any round pieces. It doesn’t need anymore maintenance other than the annual cleaning and the weekly emptying of the ash.
View attachment 331660

Looks great! What size home are you heating with this?