Updated Jotul F118CB information

[Texican65]

Greetings. My name is Dow, I'm 35 and have lived in the pacific northwest since 2007, I got out of the navy up here and got a job with the railroad and decided to stay. I've used a woodstove regularly in the winter in the various cabins and homes I've lived in up here, older/smaller double door Lopi's, AMAZING stoves. My wife and I just bought our first home in Maple Valley, an 1800 square foot tri-level with an oil furnace and a HUGE Schrader Fireplace woodstove in the lowest level of the house. The room is only around 400 square feet, and that old Schrader is way too much stove for that room. It's basically an all steel box with 2 crummy aluminum doors with a threaded damper on each...and a stove pipe coming out the top. It doesnt seems like a very air-tight stove, even with it damped all the way down, the doors dont seal well and the fire rages and is out in no time. Heats up very fast and will even heat our entire home once its running for a few hours, but it burns us out of the lower living room and will not maintain all night unless babysitting it. Short and sweet, I want it gone.
I've been researching many woodstoves the last few weeks and would love an older Lopi, but my dad reminds me all the time, in Washington the air quality rules and burn bans are frequent, and only becoming more stringent. He recommends a newer EPA certified stove. Might be a good idea. In looking at newer Lopi's ranging from $1500 to $2500...I ran across a company by the name of Jotul. They've been in business since the 1850's and seem to produce a quality product hand-made in Norway and/or Maine, no Chinese parts, very important to me. Anyways, in browsing their catalogs in search of a small to medium size stove, I ran across the F118 CB Black Bear, the newer version of the old standby 118. Seemed like a pretty solid and attractive looking machine to me, until I delved deeper into forums and reviews.
My question regarding the Black Bear is: did Jotul ever redesign the retaining pins for the secondary air baffle system/and or the baffle? It seems like (almost all) owners of the stove were running into problems with the baffle warping, due to design flaw and not actually from over-heating. The only threads that I could find were several years old and it didnt seem quite clear if there was ever a resolution from Jotul? The stove is very attractive looking and sounds like the right size for our home's heating need. My dad also warns me to stay away from a cast iron stove because they will crack from even the slightest over-firing. Seems to me that a reputable business would perhaps not be in business if a product were as fragile as that, whats the truth in cast iron stoves and over-firing, how hot is too hot?
Thanks very much folks, I appreciate those who have read this ginormous thread, I look forward to corresponding with and learning from those of you that have "been in the know" a couple decades longer than myself. Stay warm.

Dow

 

[begreen]

Welcome. That's a good question. One hears very little about this stove. Initial results were not that good and secondary rack warpage reports were common. You might want to consider a Morso 2B Classic box stove. Or look at one of several convective stove designs like the Quadrafire Exporer II or the Pacific Energy T5.

I'd also look at ways to improve convection of the heat from the stove room to upstairs by opening up the stairwell and maybe putting a table fan on the floor at the top of the stairwell pointing down blowing cold air downstairs.

 

[Texican65]

Hey thanks begreen. I'd also looked at the Morso 2b Classic. Looks like a respectable machine aswell, I'm not sure exactly how the heat exchanger feature works on it, I'll have to do a little more research. Also, I couldn't find a lot of info on where morso's are made? I think the company is out of Denmark, but I need to be certain the stoves are built there and not with any Chinese parts.
Are there any other old school/classic inspired stoves out there that have been revamped for EPA certification?
Thanks a lot,
Dow

 

[begreen]

Made in Denmark. The PE Alderlea T5 is made in British Columbia. Jotul F45, F50, F55 are made in Maine.

 

[begreen]

Good news! Posting this information passed on to me by Dow. Looks like there is now a fix in place for the early baffle warping issues. I changed the title of this thread to help people locate this info in the future. From Jotul:

"There is much confusion regarding the F 118 CB baffle. It isn't a pin issue although that's often how it's perceived. Over time, due to the high efficiency and high combustion temperatures, the baffle grows. In some extreme cases, it warps and cracks too. Once that has happened, the secondary air tubes won't stay in place. It is often necessary to split the baffle into two pieces in order to remove it. The baffle is now two pieces and the tolerances have been changed to allow it to move and grow without disrupting the air tubes as easily. Prior to 2012, baffles were considered wear items like tires and brakes on a vehicle. In 2012 we added a limited lifetime warranty for baffles, part(s) only no labor. The typical life expectancy has been between 4-10 years. Mileage will vary. We anticipate fewer issues and a longer average lifespan with the new two piece baffle. It should be noted that the limited lifetime warranty is limited. Baffles that are burnt up before the average or reasonably expected time period are not covered. I.e., a baffle that is warped and cracked within the first season would not qualify. EPA certified non-catalytic appliances have the ability to burn wood gas (smoke). Firebox temperatures, particularly just below the baffle, can and do exceed 1700 degrees Fahrenheit at times under certain conditions. It is important to burn only natural wood; kindling and cord wood with an average moisture content between 15-20%."

Mark Lewis
Technical Department
Jøtul North America

 

[Creekside]

Living here in Washington too, you'll definitely want a certified stove and it may even be law that you can't install a non certified stove in the Puget sound area, besides a good secondary burn stove will burn longer and I love having little to no smoke coming out of the chimney.

 

[Texican65]

Hey thanks creekside! I've gotta have somebody come out and inspect the chimney, I'm not sure if it's insulated or not? Where are u at in WA and what stove are u using?

Dow

 

[Texican65]

Forgot to mention...the rep also said that 2012 is when the limited warranty on the baffle went into effect, but that all the US made 118s with serial number
18001001 and above have the updated baffle. Hope this helps somebody in the future.

Dow

 

[Creekside]

I'm in the Gig Harbor/Peninsula area, and I've got a Jotul F55. I would recommend going to a store that carries a good selection of their lineup and look at the different offerings in person. I love the fit and finish on ours.

 

[Hanson]

I am having this baffle/secondary air issue right now with my Jotul Black Bear. Just called the dealer today to let them know the issue. He is yet to get back to me. I am glad to read this post and hopefully their fix works.
I LOVE my Black Bear since I got it 3 yrs ago. I read all about it prior to purchase, read bad experiences of some and still bought the stove. I new there would be some growing pains initially given all the BAD I read about the stove; size of the fire box, size of door and secondary air system, baffle cracking, side plates cracking. My intention was to really pay close attention to my fires and make sure to NOT over fire the stove. I have never over fired the stove, never been out of the "ideal" range on my thermometer. My stove is used 8 months of yr give or take and runs almost 24/7 for 4 months here in New Brunswick. Stove does 80% of home heating.
Just noticed one of the secondary air tubes was out of place. I tried to get it back in and it wouldn't go. I then looked more closely and realized my baffle was cracked. I removed the "front secondary air tube" from the stove. Upon examining the tube I could see a very slight warping in the tube. The tube sits with two holes lined up to two spurs(extrusions) from the baffle plate. With the warping it cannot sit perfectly up to the baffle plate. Regardless of the air tube issue the baffle plate itself is cracked completely from the front all the way to the back, right in the middle of the plate.
I will update as things progress. I am hoping for positive experience here. I love this stove, size is perfect for my application, the orientation(north/south) perfect, the thing looks so beautiful. I really do not want to replace this stove.

 

[begreen]

Sorry to hear this issue is still happening. This is a warranty issue right now, but fundamentally it appears to be a design issue.

 

[SpaceBus]

Any other owners care to share their experiences? The crack in our old Defiant is getting worse and we are nervous and seriously considering getting a new stove this winter. I really like the Morso 2b classic, but I think it will be too small for our house. The Jotul F118 CB looks like it would work perfectly and look fantastic, but I'm seeing these issues.

How difficult are these baffles and tubes to replace? If it's an easy fix, then I don't mind the maintenance. If the stove has to be torn down to replace the baffle, then it won't work.

Any other stoves like the 118 and 2b classic with beautiful Castings and classic styling? I know about the Alderlea T4/5, and we just don't like the look. The European companies seem to have the most esthetically pleasing Castings.

 

[Flyboyslc]

I bought a used one and it looked like it had been stored outside and rained on. I tore it down to the place that just the sides and bottom were still assembled. Found that the top baffle was one piece, the old design. I then bought the new two piece baffle and rebuilt the stove from that point to completion. I had to split the old top baffle with a cutting disk to get it out. I now have the stove running and running well. It is amazing the heat it puts out for having such a small firebox. I did a YouTube video showing a lot of the rebuild work. It is here if anyone cares to take a look.

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[begreen]

It's a nice stove and a good heater. It looks great. I hope it gives you many years of good service now. The original design for the first F118CB was not too great. Baffle and secondary warping were common. The revised secondary system and baffle should work much better. I think I would have removed the sides for a complete rebuild with fresh cement. What stove cement was used? What stove paint and color?

 

[Flyboyslc]

It's a nice stove and a good heater. It looks great. I hope it gives you many years of good service now. The original design for the first F118CB was not too great. Baffle and secondary warping were common. The revised secondary system and baffle should work much better. I think I would have removed the sides for a complete rebuild with fresh cement. What stove cement was used? What stove paint and color?

I used Rustoleum satin black stove paint. It has held very well so far. Not affected by the heat at all. I used DAP cement. Just 6 bucks a tube at Graingers. Took two full tubes. Let it air dry for well over a week before firing it. Small fires the first few times. I have a Jotul 121 built in 1978 and it is a much bigger stove. I found that i need to be strategic in how i load wood into the small 118.

 

[begreen]

I found that i need to be strategic in how i load wood into the small 118.

LOL That's the first time I have heard the 118 called small. You should try running the F602 for a bit.

 

[Flyboyslc]

LOL That's the first time I have heard the 118 called small. You should try running the F602 for a bit.

Be green, This is classic “all things are relative”.

I have ran a Jotul 121 for years and years. It will hold about three times the wood as the 118cb will hold. Here is a picture of the 121 that i paid $800 for in 1979. Used it for heat for 2500 sq foot home for a long time, until installing geothermal. It now lives in my shop continuing to provide good heat.


That is an 8 inch red elm log on top of a bed of coals. Couldn’t do that with the 118 at all! Hence my comment on loading the 118 carefully.

Best your way. Flyboy

 

[MR. GLO]

Be green, This is classic “all things are relative”.

I have ran a Jotul 121 for years and years. It will hold about three times the wood as the 118cb will hold. Here is a picture of the 121 that i paid $800 for in 1979. Used it for heat for 2500 sq foot home for a long time, until installing geothermal. It now lives in my shop continuing to provide good heat.
View attachment 256772View attachment 256773

That is an 8 inch red elm log on top of a bed of coals. Couldn’t do that with the 118 at all! Hence my comment on loading the 118 carefully.

Best your way. Flyboy

how does this stove burn? looks nice.
...does it always smoke or do you get clean smoke from chimney burning hot? i just found a jotul f118 2009 model that was never fired. next week im taking it off the pallet to inspect.

thanks

 

[begreen]

how does this stove burn? looks nice.
...does it always smoke or do you get clean smoke from chimney burning hot? i just found a jotul f118 2009 model that was never fired. next week im taking it off the pallet to inspect.

thanks

A 2009 model will be the F118CB which is an epa stove that has a secondary combustion system. In good operating condition it burns pretty cleanly. There will be some smoke on startup, but once the firebox is up to temperature it is a clean burner.

 

[Flyboyslc]

The 121 will burn as clean as the modern stoves. The way I fire it is by using a stovepipe thermometer and keeping the door cracked open until the fire gets established. Close the door. I then regulate airflow to maintain 400 degree stack temp. At that point there is zero smoke. But fair warning, it puts out huge heat and you need a big area to heat or it will drive you out of the room. I’ll take the old stoves over the new ones any day. You just need to know how to run them.

 

[Hanson]

I am having this baffle/secondary air issue right now with my Jotul Black Bear. Just called the dealer today to let them know the issue. He is yet to get back to me. I am glad to read this post and hopefully their fix works.
I LOVE my Black Bear since I got it 3 yrs ago. I read all about it prior to purchase, read bad experiences of some and still bought the stove. I new there would be some growing pains initially given all the BAD I read about the stove; size of the fire box, size of door and secondary air system, baffle cracking, side plates cracking. My intention was to really pay close attention to my fires and make sure to NOT over fire the stove. I have never over fired the stove, never been out of the "ideal" range on my thermometer. My stove is used 8 months of yr give or take and runs almost 24/7 for 4 months here in New Brunswick. Stove does 80% of home heating.
Just noticed one of the secondary air tubes was out of place. I tried to get it back in and it wouldn't go. I then looked more closely and realized my baffle was cracked. I removed the "front secondary air tube" from the stove. Upon examining the tube I could see a very slight warping in the tube. The tube sits with two holes lined up to two spurs(extrusions) from the baffle plate. With the warping it cannot sit perfectly up to the baffle plate. Regardless of the air tube issue the baffle plate itself is cracked completely from the front all the way to the back, right in the middle of the plate.
I will update as things progress. I am hoping for positive experience here. I love this stove, size is perfect for my application, the orientation(north/south) perfect, the thing looks so beautiful. I really do not want to replace this stove.

I never did update this thread after dealing with my issues. My dealer, where I purchased this stove new, replaced the baffle with the new two piece design. It worked great for the first two years, it was easy to disassemble when cleaning the chimney on my yearly summer clean, done by the dealer, WETT certified. Last year the guys came out to clean the chimney and couldn't get the baffle out, the guy said he "didn't want to break it", and he would come back and clean my stove on another day and bring someone else(owner I assume) with him. I am guessing he didn't want to break the baffle and be on the hook for it with his boss. Once he left, I looked at the stove/baffle, he in fact had already broken the baffle. There was a small piece distinctively broken and missing from the front of the baffle. I called the dealer and asked when they would be sending someone out to actually clean my stove and to have a look at the baffle that the employee broke. I never heard back from the dealer and we got into burning season. I am using my stove and it works great, as it always has. I love the stove and was completely happy with my dealer and service until now. I am not a dissatisfied customer yet, I am a little disappointed. I will call them again to have a look at the baffle and clean the stove again this summer and see what they have to say. Even with the initial baffle issue and my current issue, I love this stove, I love the look and love the way it runs. I still have no other issues with the stove outside of the baffle issues, there are no other cracks or warping. I always keep my burn temps in the "ideal" range on my thermometer. I buy my wood from a great guy who, I ask to give me his smallest splits for my small door and firebox, he gives me great wood. I am always a year ahead on my wood, I know it is good and dry. Moral of the story, I love this stove and will hate to have to replace it when the time comes, hopefully that time won't come for a while.

 

[MR. GLO]

Can you explain how the two piece baffle comes out. How do you get to it I am assuming you have to take the entire top section off. Can you tell me how you get at the bolts? Why would the Chimney people remove the baffle during a chimney cleaning? Many of my past chimney people are lazy and dont want take apart the inside pipe or move stove or clean cap on roof or even use same screw holes in pipe. All they want to do is rod it and run. I might as well do it myself.

 

[michaelreidak]

I've had a Jotul 118 and a Jotul #4. Never had any problems with either, even when a housesitter got the entire green enameled stove cherry red! However, I now have a red Lange 6302A, a beast of a stove that takes long logs (28"+) and keeps the house toasty. Best I've had.

 

[Hanson]

Can you explain how the two piece baffle comes out. How do you get to it I am assuming you have to take the entire top section off. Can you tell me how you get at the bolts? Why would the Chimney people remove the baffle during a chimney cleaning? Many of my past chimney people are lazy and dont want take apart the inside pipe or move stove or clean cap on roof or even use same screw holes in pipe. All they want to do is rod it and run. I might as well do it myself.

Sorry for the 3-4 years later reply haha. I just came back to update. The two piece baffle just folds down onto itself with two, for lack of a better term, wings that lock into each other. If you want to remove it you should simply be able to push up on the baffle in the center and it should 'open' the center line and the two locking 'wings', then you can remove one piece at a time. Once the baffle is removed you will have access to the secondary burn chamber completely. My chimney sweep wanted to remove the baffle to access the stove pipe without having to take any pipe apart. They certainly didn't want to do anything on or from the roof. I currently have one of those sections of pipe that will left up to give access for cleaning.

 

[Hanson]

I never did update this thread after dealing with my issues. My dealer, where I purchased this stove new, replaced the baffle with the new two piece design. It worked great for the first two years, it was easy to disassemble when cleaning the chimney on my yearly summer clean, done by the dealer, WETT certified. Last year the guys came out to clean the chimney and couldn't get the baffle out, the guy said he "didn't want to break it", and he would come back and clean my stove on another day and bring someone else(owner I assume) with him. I am guessing he didn't want to break the baffle and be on the hook for it with his boss. Once he left, I looked at the stove/baffle, he in fact had already broken the baffle. There was a small piece distinctively broken and missing from the front of the baffle. I called the dealer and asked when they would be sending someone out to actually clean my stove and to have a look at the baffle that the employee broke. I never heard back from the dealer and we got into burning season. I am using my stove and it works great, as it always has. I love the stove and was completely happy with my dealer and service until now. I am not a dissatisfied customer yet, I am a little disappointed. I will call them again to have a look at the baffle and clean the stove again this summer and see what they have to say. Even with the initial baffle issue and my current issue, I love this stove, I love the look and love the way it runs. I still have no other issues with the stove outside of the baffle issues, there are no other cracks or warping. I always keep my burn temps in the "ideal" range on my thermometer. I buy my wood from a great guy who, I ask to give me his smallest splits for my small door and firebox, he gives me great wood. I am always a year ahead on my wood, I know it is good and dry. Moral of the story, I love this stove and will hate to have to replace it when the time comes, hopefully that time won't come for a while.

Another update for any curious people who may be interested in this stove. I am about to replace my baffle for the 3rd time now. My current baffle, the factory replacement 2 piece baffle has now met its end of life, big hole through it. I never replaced it when it got chipped and "stuck" in place, I have just used it with no issues until now. I also now have some very minor cracks in my side baffle plates. I will order side baffle plates when I order a new top baffle plate but I will probably wait until the summer to replace the side baffles, the minor cracks they have should be fine for this burning season. I still love this stove, wouldn't trade it for anything.