burnout said:
This is the second year for the 2in1 stoves. The 1975 is the new 2in1. It means you have the option of burning in cat mode or non-cat (everburn) mode. You can burn in non-cat mode by removing the catalyst.
VC Defiant cracked backplate
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This is the second year for the 2in1 stoves. The 1975 is the new 2in1. It means you have the option of burning in cat mode or non-cat (everburn) mode. You can burn in non-cat mode by removing the catalyst.
Diabel said:
Yes, the new system has a firebrick like material that somewhat mimics the fireback of the everburn models. The have eliminated the fragile assembly and fountain materials. Also, the new stoves have much closer clearances with heat shield.
It explains then, those stoves throw tons of heat at the back!!
and it just looked strange. Thanks for explaining. Sorry for your
contractor issues.... They are all seem to be the same!
and it just looked strange. Thanks for explaining. Sorry for your
contractor issues.... They are all seem to be the same!
Just saw this, think this may be worth a try after the warranty expires...
http://gordosoft.com/woodstove/refractoryDIY.htm
http://gordosoft.com/woodstove/refractoryDIY.htm
Yes, the stove is 5" form the sides and 18" from the back I think. If you do a search for the 1975 manual, you will see the clearances are real close. Behind the stove is bear drywall as well, all according to the manual and codes.
Yeah the manual says nothing about 2 in 1. I may have seen a little blurb about burning without the cat, but that was it. Nothing that says everburn or 2 in 1. What I did find though is this...
"Limited Lifetime Warranty
MHSC warrants that all refractory brick and material used in this product will be warranted against deterioration not resulting from physical damage or overloading of the woodstove for the lifetime of this product. This coverage includes the components of the 2N1 System: “engine, inner cover, access cover and fireback.†In addition all cast iron parts are warranted against breakage, cracking or burn-through and glass door panels against thermal breakage. Coverage is provided only to the original purchaser. MHSC will also pay labor associated with repairing or replacing the component described above for up to five years."
Wow, I feel dumb. Just after I pasted the warranty stuff into this post, I see the words 2N1 right in the blurb I pasted. How bout that. The PDF file that I was looking at also said 2N1 right in the file name.
Holy inattentiveness Batman!
But in my defense, those are the only two places in the whole document that refer to 2N1. Who ever looks at the warranty unless you need it, anyway?
Yeah the manual says nothing about 2 in 1. I may have seen a little blurb about burning without the cat, but that was it. Nothing that says everburn or 2 in 1. What I did find though is this...
"Limited Lifetime Warranty
MHSC warrants that all refractory brick and material used in this product will be warranted against deterioration not resulting from physical damage or overloading of the woodstove for the lifetime of this product. This coverage includes the components of the 2N1 System: “engine, inner cover, access cover and fireback.†In addition all cast iron parts are warranted against breakage, cracking or burn-through and glass door panels against thermal breakage. Coverage is provided only to the original purchaser. MHSC will also pay labor associated with repairing or replacing the component described above for up to five years."
Wow, I feel dumb. Just after I pasted the warranty stuff into this post, I see the words 2N1 right in the blurb I pasted. How bout that. The PDF file that I was looking at also said 2N1 right in the file name.
Holy inattentiveness Batman!
But in my defense, those are the only two places in the whole document that refer to 2N1. Who ever looks at the warranty unless you need it, anyway?
Jack768
Member
I really like the idea of close clearances (which I need for my planned install), 1g/hr emissions, long burn time, relatively large firebox, aesthetics that the wife can accept. Negatives I've heard about are your problems, re-gasketing every few yrs, general high maintainence costs (which negate some of the wood heat cost savings) etc. Question: Would you buy the 1975 Defiant again? BrowningBAR seems fairly happy with VC which gives me some confidence.
I suspect adding some height to your chimney would fix the smoke issues. I have about 30 ft of Class A on my ZC fireplace and have superb draft performance.
I suspect adding some height to your chimney would fix the smoke issues. I have about 30 ft of Class A on my ZC fireplace and have superb draft performance.
If you are planning on buying new, then there are many other stoves in that price range that are much better units
with less maintenance etc. VC makes pretty stoves but they are expensive and costly in repairs!
with less maintenance etc. VC makes pretty stoves but they are expensive and costly in repairs!
LIJack said:
Keep in mind, I do not own the new 2-in1 stoves. I am running a previous generation Defiant (1945) and a much older Encore (0028). Both use the old catalytic materials. I am only commenting on the difference of the new stoves and how they operate.
The new stoves still use more gaskets than most stoves on the market, which means a complete stove regasketing will have to take place in 5-ish years. This isn't a positive or a negative, it just is. But, when you combine the extra use of gaskets and the catalytic assembly and catalyst, the VC stoves do still require more maintenance than most stoves.
If I had the budget, would I buy the new VC stoves? Yes, I would. But, that doesn't mean they are for everyone.
Jack768
Member
My frame of reference is the pre-EPA Coalbrookdale Darby I grew up with, which my dad still uses. Total repair and maintainence dollars over 30 years -- zero. Not that modern stoves aren't better in various ways.
LIJack said:
If you are looking for low maintenance and a lot of heat, a large, modern, steel stove is the way to go.
The stove I bought because it was pretty(for my wife) and I did some research and everyone raved about VC stoves. I have very limited experience with the stove, but so far so good, less the back plate and the installation issues.
The pluses I like are:
really long burn times, I have gotten the advertised 14 hours and then some until cold.
Looks nice
I can load a crap ton of wood in it
Can put 24" logs in it ie "logs" (when I was cutting I was saying no way this will fit, but they do"
tucked away in the corner, not using much space
built in removable ash pan with cover for dumping
The things puts out SO much heat, will pay for itself in three years with free wood.
The things I don't like(less my draft issues):
I feel like I am going to chip the enamel one of these days
Easily over fires if you aren't watching (fully closed right air intake lets too much air in with left damper open)
Ash pan too small, could use double size
Blower is REALLY loud unless you turn it all the way down
Hard to regulate temperature so it maintains the house below 76F to 80F, especially when I load it full. I will open a window
Broke the back plate
Removable handle on left hand side to close flue, why not just leave it attached?
The negatives really don't overshadow the positives. They are easily worked around.
I guess I would buy another, but I will let you know in a few years
The pluses I like are:
really long burn times, I have gotten the advertised 14 hours and then some until cold.
Looks nice
I can load a crap ton of wood in it
Can put 24" logs in it ie "logs" (when I was cutting I was saying no way this will fit, but they do"
tucked away in the corner, not using much space
built in removable ash pan with cover for dumping
The things puts out SO much heat, will pay for itself in three years with free wood.
The things I don't like(less my draft issues):
I feel like I am going to chip the enamel one of these days
Easily over fires if you aren't watching (fully closed right air intake lets too much air in with left damper open)
Ash pan too small, could use double size
Blower is REALLY loud unless you turn it all the way down
Hard to regulate temperature so it maintains the house below 76F to 80F, especially when I load it full. I will open a window
Broke the back plate
Removable handle on left hand side to close flue, why not just leave it attached?
The negatives really don't overshadow the positives. They are easily worked around.
I guess I would buy another, but I will let you know in a few years
burnout said:The stove I bought because it was pretty(for my wife) and I did some research and everyone raved about VC stoves. I have very limited experience with the stove, but so far so good, less the back plate and the installation issues.
The pluses I like are:
really long burn times, I have gotten the advertised 14 hours and then some until cold.
Looks nice
I can load a crap ton of wood in it
Can put 24" logs in it ie "logs" (when I was cutting I was saying no way this will fit, but they do"
tucked away in the corner, not using much space
built in removable ash pan with cover for dumping
The things puts out SO much heat, will pay for itself in three years with free wood.
The things I don't like(less my draft issues):
I feel like I am going to chip the enamel one of these days
Easily over fires if you aren't watching (fully closed right air intake lets too much air in with left damper open)
Ash pan too small, could use double size
Blower is REALLY loud unless you turn it all the way down
Hard to regulate temperature so it maintains the house below 76F to 80F, especially when I load it full. I will open a window
Broke the back plate
Removable handle on left hand side to close flue, why not just leave it attached?
The negatives really don't overshadow the positives. They are easily worked around.
I guess I would buy another, but I will let you know in a few years
I have also gotten some really good burns (10-14 hours), and this is from an older model. I am enjoying throwing two or three splits on and getting 5-7 hours of heat out of it. Works great as winter begins to wind down.
Lets talk about some of your negatives:
Easily over fires if you aren't watching (fully closed right air intake lets too much air in with left damper open)
Try engaging the cat and closing down the air (in stages) sooner.
Ash pan too small, could use double size
Keep a good bed of ashes in the stove. I installed this stove 4 weeks ago and I have yet to empty the ash pan or remove ashes out of the firebox.
Blower is REALLY loud unless you turn it all the way down
I have a blower, but I have not installed it, yet. I probably wont until next fall. I'll let you know if mine is any different.
Hard to regulate temperature so it maintains the house below 76F to 80F, especially when I load it full. I will open a window
Better to be too warm, than cold. As I mentioned earlier, try engaging the cat and decreasing the air sooner. Also, try reloading on a big bed of coals. You should be able to engage the cat sooner and the big bed of coals will give you longer burns.
Removable handle on left hand side to close flue, why not just leave it attached?
I believe there is an option to replace the handles with traditional handles that stay in place. The Defiant I am using has permanent handles in place and I enjoy that more than the removable hand I have on the Encore.
This was more a statement of fact, rhetorical. I know what I need to do, just stinks when you forget about it and find your temp at 700+F and the water on the stove is at a roiling boil and the room at 82F.
Four weeks on the same ash pan? I can usually go a 4 days without making one heck of a mess when I open the ash pan door. This is constant burning, 24/7, I couldn't imagine what 4 weeks would be like. Do you have a foot of ash in your stove?
I will look into that handle. I took mine to work one day by accident and my wife completely froze up. She was totally incapable of improvising with a screwdriver. Speaking of which, it was 76F in the house last night, she is wearing a fleece and putting a thick blanket on her while watching TV, I don't get it.
It has been a mild winter thus far, only had two snow storms and one was in October. Temps have been 35F+ all winter getting up to 50 on a lot of days. If it gets really cold maybe I won't have to open that window.
Four weeks on the same ash pan? I can usually go a 4 days without making one heck of a mess when I open the ash pan door. This is constant burning, 24/7, I couldn't imagine what 4 weeks would be like. Do you have a foot of ash in your stove?
I will look into that handle. I took mine to work one day by accident and my wife completely froze up. She was totally incapable of improvising with a screwdriver. Speaking of which, it was 76F in the house last night, she is wearing a fleece and putting a thick blanket on her while watching TV, I don't get it.
It has been a mild winter thus far, only had two snow storms and one was in October. Temps have been 35F+ all winter getting up to 50 on a lot of days. If it gets really cold maybe I won't have to open that window.
burnout said:
Try loading from the top only. No need for both. And with a 6" pipe, your not supposed to open the front doors on that stove. Only with an 8" pipe can you. So it makes sense. If I'm reading correctly. You should only load from the top unless its a cold start you use the doors to get yourself up and running. Occasionally mine will let in a little bit if the logs are smoldering low, you should be able to walk away with the top open and not have the alarms going off.
burnout said:
Well, at least you know your wood isn't wet! :lol:
Yes, this was pretty much non-stop burning since I am working out the kinks in preparation for next winter. The ash in the firebox is just above the lip of the stove right now. So I need to shove some ash around to make it fall into the ash pan. My wood is probably a little wetter than yours, so, in theory, it should be producing more ash than you.
I can relate. The wife will wrap herself in a blanket until she starts sweating... and then complain it's too warm.
Try experimenting with less wood. I've been using two or three splits at a time on mild days and it will last for quite some time. It will come in handy next fall.
I will try the 3 splits. Unfortunately, I am into yule log territory. Getting to the really big stuff on the stack. Still have some small stuff, but not a lot.
The smoke usually only comes out if I open both doors, but sometimes only with one. It seems to be operating well enough, just cant open any of the doors wide without something coming out, top or front. I will talk to my stove guy and see if he can put a couple more feet on. I have satisfied the 10/2 rule, but my other roof is pitched right toward my chimney. Maybe raising it up a little will help a lot.
The smoke usually only comes out if I open both doors, but sometimes only with one. It seems to be operating well enough, just cant open any of the doors wide without something coming out, top or front. I will talk to my stove guy and see if he can put a couple more feet on. I have satisfied the 10/2 rule, but my other roof is pitched right toward my chimney. Maybe raising it up a little will help a lot.
burnout said:
If you have an axe you can split the bigger splits down. I think your main problem is draft followed by less than perfect wood judging by your cap/pipe/build-up. I'm guessing if you burn hot at 600+ degrees you have little to no smoke, but when you burn at a lower temp that is when you get the smoke from the pipe.
BrowningBAR said:
Not just an axe, but a Fiskars. The wood is good, 2 to 3 year +seasoning. I have a great friend who is letting me exchange my wet stuff for the good stuff. I think it is draft. I just put in the three splits. I let it get real hot until no smoke came out, then shut the damper. Will see how that does for me.
You should not have to open the doors while the stove is operating, any reloads should be done through the
top, unless the odd piece that needs to be put through the front. Still reloads are are usually done in the end of
coaling stage with zero smoke
top, unless the odd piece that needs to be put through the front. Still reloads are are usually done in the end of
coaling stage with zero smoke
Diabel said:
Usually, I do load through the top. Odd piece or if I am stirring the coals. Typically if there is any smoke being generated, gotta close down the top a bit to prevent smoke from coming out.
I found out that I am going to be out of a back plate for a while. The place I ordered it from said it will be the 15th before I see the part. My stove guy hasn't called back yet. I am sure he will have the same issue. This will make for a grand total of 4 weeks without a properly working stove.
I went to HD last night and they had furnace cement. I was able to glue the two pieces back together. I then installed the piece and the stove worked great. Then I looked inside this morning and it is already showing signs that it isn't going to last very long. Well, at least I have a giant bucket of cement so I can keep doing it over and over again.
I went to HD last night and they had furnace cement. I was able to glue the two pieces back together. I then installed the piece and the stove worked great. Then I looked inside this morning and it is already showing signs that it isn't going to last very long. Well, at least I have a giant bucket of cement so I can keep doing it over and over again.
The "stack" effect from the main part of your house wants to draw air to the peak of your attic. Your stove is competing with that draw, as your stack doesn't clear your main roof peak. So adding height should help.
We have replaced about two dozen refractory access covers under warranty out of about 100 2n1's sold. We have yet to have anyone break one a second time. They could have definitely been designed better, but I believe breakage can be avoided.
FWIW, we have burned 3 different Defiant 2n1's in our showroom with at least 10 different people loading/operating the stove and have yet to break one of these covers ourselves.
FWIW, we have burned 3 different Defiant 2n1's in our showroom with at least 10 different people loading/operating the stove and have yet to break one of these covers ourselves.
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