Venting wood stove into existing masonry chimney

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bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
28,452
central pa
I'm sure your much more knowledgeable in this area. And for this reason felt was likely wise stop this practice having heard about some rotary brush was going to look into that supposed works in 12X12 masonry flues, is that true, if so any you'd recommend?
Yes they work fine for 12x12 clay. Sooteater is a good homeowner grade one.

But 12x12s are drastically oversized for just about any stove. You would benifit greatly from properly sized liners.
 

COOT

New Member
Apr 18, 2022
16
New Hampshire
Yes they work fine for 12x12 clay. Sooteater is a good homeowner grade one.

But 12x12s are drastically oversized for just about any stove. You would benifit greatly from properly sized liners.
No chit, just googled it, very cool, thanx. I hear ya, all the chimneys on property 12 X12 , all have big ash doors at bases wicked fast EZ to clean. ONLY reason wife got V3 cause glass doors. V3 was to replace our current (no glass) Garrison, though just air tight no secondary burn we've been using for almost 30 years, simple, still runs great. Unless we can find rebuilt older model secondary burn Jotul or V.C. no cat (like our Defiant in garage) w/glass that can just hook to current chimney my machinist feels can fit glass to the Garrison doors & be done w/it. We already found buyer for the V3. Again thanx for the tips.
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
28,452
central pa
No chit, just googled it, very cool, thanx. I hear ya, all the chimneys on property 12 X12 , all have big ash doors at bases wicked fast EZ to clean. ONLY reason wife got V3 cause glass doors. V3 was to replace our current (no glass) Garrison, though just air tight no secondary burn we've been using for almost 30 years, simple, still runs great. Unless we can find rebuilt older model secondary burn Jotul or V.C. no cat (like our Defiant in garage) w/glass that can just hook to current chimney my machinist feels can fit glass to the Garrison doors & be done w/it. We already found buyer for the V3. Again thanx for the tips.
Yeah I use a garrison at a friend's cabin occasionally. I wouldn't waste any time fitting glass in that. I also wouldn't look for a VC EPA noncat. Most of them were pretty temperamental stoves that require lots of expensive parts often. The previous version of the jotul was a great stove. The v3 has issues. There are lots of other brands out there to choose from new or used.
 

COOT

New Member
Apr 18, 2022
16
New Hampshire
Yeah I use a garrison at a friend's cabin occasionally. I wouldn't waste any time fitting glass in that. I also wouldn't look for a VC EPA noncat. Most of them were pretty temperamental stoves that require lots of expensive parts often. The previous version of the jotul was a great stove. The v3 has issues. There are lots of other brands out there to choose from new or used.
Mid 70's Defiant I've had for 30 years, no cat, no maintenance, still runs great but no glass and collar too high vent into our fireplace. I hear ya, Garrisons dime a dozen, most cases can't give them away, but we love it, no gaskets, no maintenance (other clean chimney), can get cherry red, burns anything, no issues. Machinist old friend do it for free, flat cast doors ez, another friend owns glass company cutting w/giving us glass if we go that route. Thanx for tips on Soot Eater :)
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
28,452
central pa
Mid 70's Defiant I've had for 30 years, no cat, no maintenance, still runs great but no glass and collar too high vent into our fireplace. I hear ya, Garrisons dime a dozen, most cases can't give them away, but we love it, no gaskets, no maintenance (other clean chimney), can get cherry red, burns anything, no issues. Machinist old friend do it for free, flat cast doors ez, another friend owns glass company cutting w/giving us glass if we go that route. Thanx for tips on Soot Eater :)
Yes vc made great stoves for their day in the mid 70s. Many of their later stoves were not very good.

Yes I am sure you could put glass in the garrison doors but they will be black with creosote after a fire or 2 anyway. And is your friend really going to give you over $100 of pyro ceram glass?

I really don't know why you are making such a big deal out of maintenance. Most modern stoves really don't need much at all. Bricks every so often. My last stove a regency 3100 the bricks are 10 years old and perfectly fine. The gasket is the same. If you go with a cat stove yes that will need replaced periodically. Most report about 3 years. But compared to the dinosaurs you are using your wood useage will be cut in half.
 

COOT

New Member
Apr 18, 2022
16
New Hampshire
Yes vc made great stoves for their day in the mid 70s. Many of their later stoves were not very good.

Yes I am sure you could put glass in the garrison doors but they will be black with creosote after a fire or 2 anyway. And is your friend really going to give you over $100 of pyro ceram glass?

I really don't know why you are making such a big deal out of maintenance. Most modern stoves really don't need much at all. Bricks every so often. My last stove a regency 3100 the bricks are 10 years old and perfectly fine. The gasket is the same. If you go with a cat stove yes that will need replaced periodically. Most report about 3 years. But compared to the dinosaurs you are using your wood useage will be cut in half.
Yes vc made great stoves for their day in the mid 70s. Many of their later stoves were not very good.

Yes I am sure you could put glass in the garrison doors but they will be black with creosote after a fire or 2 anyway. And is your friend really going to give you over $100 of pyro ceram glass?

I really don't know why you are making such a big deal out of maintenance. Most modern stoves really don't need much at all. Bricks every so often. My last stove a regency 3100 the bricks are 10 years old and perfectly fine. The gasket is the same. If you go with a cat stove yes that will need replaced periodically. Most report about 3 years. But compared to the dinosaurs you are using your wood useage will be cut in half.
Agreed. Rebuilder on Vermont line has some mid 70's Defiants, Resolutes and Vigilant's taking a look at this weekend. Yes aware be cleaning glass. Actually glass cut to size closer to $150, has it in stock, we do lot construction related business. Though many happy with new stoves I'm reading on Jotul, Vermont castings, etc. forums lot other folks following guide lines located in cold climates, Canada etc. having problems more so with new Defiants all ceramic combustion chambers in one case having replace cat & chamber within a year, another having replace cartridge within 2 years not cheap, several others issues with there Jotul cat's, etc. I'll stick to old school tried & true stoves, we have local wood processor's selective cut our land payment in part being cord wood doesn't cost us anything.
 

stoveliker

Minister of Fire
Nov 17, 2019
4,353
Long Island NY
Be aware that common construction glass is not suitable for stoves; you need ceramic, high-temperature glass. If your glass supplier has that, great.
 

COOT

New Member
Apr 18, 2022
16
New Hampshire
Be aware that common construction glass is not suitable for stoves; you need ceramic, high-temperature glass. If your glass supplier has that, great.
Be aware that common construction glass is not suitable for stoves; you need ceramic, high-temperature glass. If your glass supplier has that, great.
Correct. His company all specialty glass, everything for & from safety glass for Victorian homes doors restorations , glass for electric, gas or wood stoves, etc. My daughter splitting wood next to with breaking the glass in our basement in law wood stove and he cut piece for that. Also stocks sheets mica for antique stove restorations.
 
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stoveliker

Minister of Fire
Nov 17, 2019
4,353
Long Island NY
Sounds like the perfect place!
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
28,452
central pa
Agreed. Rebuilder on Vermont line has some mid 70's Defiants, Resolutes and Vigilant's taking a look at this weekend. Yes aware be cleaning glass. Actually glass cut to size closer to $150, has it in stock, we do lot construction related business. Though many happy with new stoves I'm reading on Jotul, Vermont castings, etc. forums lot other folks following guide lines located in cold climates, Canada etc. having problems more so with new Defiants all ceramic combustion chambers in one case having replace cat & chamber within a year, another having replace cartridge within 2 years not cheap, several others issues with there Jotul cat's, etc. I'll stick to old school tried & true stoves, we have local wood processor's selective cut our land payment in part being cord wood doesn't cost us anything.
Why are you stuck on only 2 brands? Yes after their original stoves many of the Vermont castings stoves had issues. Jotul has made some fantastic stoves through the years but the new v3 has issues. But there are many many other options on the market that are proven dependable performers.

And without a proper air wash you will be cleaning glass every time you load the stove.
 

COOT

New Member
Apr 18, 2022
16
New Hampshire
Why are you stuck on only 2 brands? Yes after their original stoves many of the Vermont castings stoves had issues. Jotul has made some fantastic stoves through the years but the new v3 has issues. But there are many many other options on the market that are proven dependable performers.

And without a proper air wash you will be cleaning glass every time you load the stove.
Yeah, aware of air wash, my other old Defiant had glass, no air wash just cleaned glass often. If can't find old school we like w/glass we've been almost 30 years w/o it in present stove may stick w/that hell w/glass. VC & Jotul just examples not stuck on anything. Always had good luck w/old V.C.'s. Never ran Jotul's, brother in law had one secondary tubes directly in flame kept warping PIA to replace so got rid of it. I hear some other brands less maintenance but so far none I could find w/glass, rear venting below 29 inches, many w/cats, require relining, etc., etc.. The 2018 EPA compliant relatively inexpensive US Stove w/glass, we replaced old stove in our basement in law with, hooked it directly to masonry chimney collar, no liner, no cat, wood usage good, runs great, installed it 3 years ago chimney practically clean after every season.
 
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stoveliker

Minister of Fire
Nov 17, 2019
4,353
Long Island NY
The required/recommended lining is not due to the cat.
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
28,452
central pa
Yeah, aware of air wash, my other old Defiant had glass, no air wash just cleaned glass often. If can't find old school we like w/glass we've been almost 30 years w/o it in present stove may stick w/that hell w/glass. VC & Jotul just examples not stuck on anything. Always had good luck w/old V.C.'s. Never ran Jotul's, brother in law had one secondary tubes directly in flame kept warping PIA to replace so got rid of it. I hear some other brands less maintenance but so far none I could find w/glass, rear venting below 29 inches, many w/cats, require relining. The 2018 EPA compliant US Stove w/glass, we replaced old stove in our basement in law with, hooked it directly to masonry chimney collar, no liner, runs great but none w/rear vent I could find.
If he was warping tubes he was drastically overfiring the stove. They typically last decades. And cats have absolutely no bearing on relining. Your garrison shouldn't be running into a 12x12.


And venting into a properly sized and constructed clay liner chimney is perfectly fine. Venting into a drastically oversized chimney through an old fireplace that has had dozens of chimney fires is not ok.
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
28,452
central pa
Btw US stove co is absolutely not a brand I would recommend
 

COOT

New Member
Apr 18, 2022
16
New Hampshire
The required/recommended lining is not due to the cat.
Thank you, we realize that. It's overall because of lower temps it emits etc. We're getting rid of V3 and getting old school stove like all our other wood stoves in our buildings that doesn't require replacing cat's, relining our beautiful masonry chimneys, etc., etc. I'm an idiot not having done more research before wife bought the V3. We get our wood for free off our land could care less how much wood stove uses. All our other woodstoves stoves zero maintenance for 30 years.
 

stoveliker

Minister of Fire
Nov 17, 2019
4,353
Long Island NY
Ok. Regardless of everything I disagree with :) please do have someone inspect your chimney with a camera going thru the full height. It's important to be safe..
I note that decades of operation without issues does not mean it's safe now. In fact, if nearby wood is getting too hot, over time its ignition temperature will decrease and one could get a structural fire at conditions that were previously used without problems.

Please be safe even if not efficient or environmentally clean.
 
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COOT

New Member
Apr 18, 2022
16
New Hampshire
If he was warping tubes he was drastically overfiring the stove. They typically last decades. And cats have absolutely no bearing on relining. Your garrison shouldn't be running into a 12x12.


And venting into a properly sized and constructed clay liner chimney is perfectly fine. Venting into a drastically oversized chimney through an old fireplace that has had dozens of chimney fires is not ok.
Btw US stove co is absolutely not a brand I would recommend
The model he had was notorious for it. I realize Us Stove cheap stove, but runs fine hooked to 12X12 , that chimney hasn't had creosote in the 3 years since. The Garrison been running fine for over 20 years to other 12X12 chimney I sweep every year and I'll start using rotary brush you recommended. We have never had a "chimney fire" let alone "dozens of them" so not sure where that came from :/ Every few years I'd run stove hot controlled burn which again I'll stop doing taking your advice using brush you recommended. Anyway ditching the V3 getting old school rebuilt. Again thanx for all your time.
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
28,452
central pa
Thank you, we realize that. It's overall because of lower temps it emits etc. We're getting rid of V3 and getting old school stove like all our other wood stoves in our buildings that doesn't require replacing cat's, relining our beautiful masonry chimneys, etc., etc. I'm an idiot not having done more research before wife bought the V3. We get our wood for free off our land could care less how much wood stove uses. All our other woodstoves stoves zero maintenance for 30 years.
So you think it is easier to cut split stack move into the house and load twice the ammout of wood than it is to replace a gasket and some brick maybe a baffle every 5 to 10 years? I just don't get that
 
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stoveliker

Minister of Fire
Nov 17, 2019
4,353
Long Island NY
Also, a hot fire does not clean a chimney. If the chimney was cleaned by what you called a hot fire, there was fire in the chimney. I.e. you had chimney fires.
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
28,452
central pa
The fact that a stove will run on a 12x12 liner doesn't mean it is running anywhere near as well as it could or should be. And yes some us stove co stoves can burn very clean. They just don't hold up. Cheap stoves are fine if they are good quality.
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
28,452
central pa
Also, a hot fire does not clean a chimney. If the chimney was cleaned by what you called a hot fire, there was fire in the chimney. I.e. you had chimney fires.
He knows that. He said he cleaned with a "controlled chimney fires"
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
28,452
central pa
Thank you, we realize that. It's overall because of lower temps it emits etc. We're getting rid of V3 and getting old school stove like all our other wood stoves in our buildings that doesn't require replacing cat's, relining our beautiful masonry chimneys, etc., etc. I'm an idiot not having done more research before wife bought the V3. We get our wood for free off our land could care less how much wood stove uses. All our other woodstoves stoves zero maintenance for 30 years.
Do those masonry chimneys have the required clearances to combustibles from the outside of the masonry structure? And lining them won't change the look at all. Just greatly improve the safety and performance of them
 

COOT

New Member
Apr 18, 2022
16
New Hampshire
Also, a hot fire does not clean a chimney. If the chimney was cleaned by what you called a hot fire, there was fire in the chimney. I.e. you had chimney fires.
Of course it doesn't "clean" a chimney :/ That's not what I said. Again, we'll purchase rotary brush per advice. Whole point of post was if there was someway hook up a V3 like all our other dinosaurs we love and answer is clearly "no". All we needed to know. Thank you, over & out.

Ok. Regardless of everything I disagree with :) please do have someone inspect your chimney with a camera going thru the full height. It's important to be safe..
I note that decades of operation without issues does not mean it's safe now. In fact, if nearby wood is getting too hot, over time its ignition temperature will decrease and one could get a structural fire at conditions that were previously used without problems.

Please be safe even if not efficient or environmentally clean.
Because our facility has so many wood stoves and chimneys our insurance carrier as part of our coverage requires tri-annual inspections all stoves and chimneys. Last one was about 14 months ago c/o of there inspector everything passed with flying colors. All I was trying find out on this forum was if any way a V3 can be hooked up like rest of our stoves and answer was no so were getting rid of it getting older model. Over & out.
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
28,452
central pa
Of course it doesn't "clean" a chimney. I am so

Because our facility has so many wood stoves and chimneys our insurance carrier as part of our coverage requires tri-annual inspections all stoves and chimneys. Last one was about 14 months ago c/o of there inspector everything passed with flying colors. All I was trying find out on this forum was if any way a V3 can be hooked up like rest of our stoves and answer was no so were getting rid of it getting older model. Over & out.
But you are missing the point that none of your other stoves should be hooked to 12x12 liners either.

You are telling me that you have your garrison install (which is just piped into an old fireplace with a 12x12 liner) inspected every 3 years by a pro and they never said there was a problem with that? The fact that they didn't call out that code violation makes me doubt the rest of their inspection. That pro should be calling out every one of your stoves that is run through a 12x12 as noncompliant and reporting that back to your insurance
 

COOT

New Member
Apr 18, 2022
16
New Hampshire
So you think it is easier to cut split stack move into the house and load twice the ammout of wood than it is to replace a gasket and some brick maybe a baffle every 5 to 10 years? I just don't get that
Huh?? We don't cut, split or stack anything. Again as par deal w/wood processors to selective cut our land it's done for us for free right into wood rooms next to our stoves. We just throw wood in stove. And AGAIN from what I'm reading on other forums it's NOT just "every 5 -10 years", some folks new 2020 models under heavy use even following all the guidelines are replacing them in some cases1-3 years. Anyway only reason for post was asking if anyway possible can hook up V3 like all our other late model stoves and answer is "NO", I'm idiot for not researching the stove wife bought better b4 she bought it so we're selling it getting another late model. I almost regret posting anything on this forum. End of subject. Thank you, over & out.
 
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