Warm up that ground loop please

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Thanks for the explanation Dick, if I understand, you avoid lifting power losses because your system works like a siphon....when 'off' the loop is an inverted U, with both ends under the ground water level. I gather this only works because the HP is less than 40' above the ground water level at all times--the point where cavitation would start. Is that right?

That said, have you computed/estimated your COP with and without the (well) pump power included??
 
Everything depends upon how deep your well is and where the level of static water is for an open loop system. My well is down 160' but there's only 10' of water at the bottom, less in a drought. It would be impossible for us to run an open loop system successfully with that. A 3/4 hp motor on constantly is pretty expensive to run and there is no where close to enough water to run a HP system.
I had to replace my 3/4 hp pump 2 years ago and they replaced the wire and pipe and it was over $2K. However, it had been there for 30 yrs. so it was due.
 
An alternative setup would be to have a booster pump and separate air tank for domestic use, drawing from the line that supplies water to the HP at a lower pressure. Either that or two pressure sensors, for high and low pressure levels. When house usage drops the high pressure portion of the system, electronics would switch the pump control to the high pressure sensor to ramp up the pump speed for higher pressure. I don't even know if such a configuration has been implemented anywhere. I know that a separate booster pump has been used.
I'm going to try something similar to this on our system to try and minimize pumping losses. We have a tall house so our well pressure tank runs around 60 PSIG. Since we don't need that kink of pressure for the HP I"m going to install a booster pump on the domestic water side and then crank down the tank pressure to around 30 PSIG. The HP valves will see water at 30 PSIG and the rest of plumbing will see about 60 PSIG (30 PSI boost).

I've already bought the booster pump just need to finish some other projects first that affect the plumbing configuration.
 
woodgeek wrote: "Thanks for the explanation Dick, if I understand, you avoid lifting power losses because your system works like a siphon....when 'off' the loop is an inverted U, with both ends under the ground water level. I gather this only works because the HP is less than 40' above the ground water level at all times--the point where cavitation would start. Is that right?

That said, have you computed/estimated your COP with and without the (well) pump power included??"

I like the "inverted U siphon" analogy, and that makes it easy to understand. Someone can imagine a 75 foot hose submerged in a pond and full of water. You could grab the middle of the hose and hoist the progressively heavier weight skyward, and water would stay in the hose for perhaps 30 ft or so. Atmospheric pressure pushes up at 14.696 psig (nominal sea level), while the pressure at the top of the loop is the vapor pressure of water at whatever temperature it's at. For well water at 50 F, that VP is 0.178 psi, so the net pressure difference to support a column of water is 14.518 psi. The density of water at 50 F is 62.38 lb/cuft. Dividing by 144 gives 0.433 lb of weight on a square inch for each foot of height. Dividing 14.518 by that gives a theoretical maximum height of 33.5 ft. You'd get something less than that, due to the dissolved air that would start to come out of solution. Pulling the center of the hose higher than the maximum would result in vaporization of water to fill the space above the 33.5 ft level. That vapor actually is steam, but at 50 F and 0.178 psi absolute, or 14.518 of vacuum relative to atmospheric pressure. However, as vaporization occurs, the heat required (around 1000 BTU/lb) comes from the water itself (and a negligible amount from the hose wall), resulting in autorefrigeration, and the temperature would drop. Theoretically, if you lifted high enough (and slow enough so as to maintain equilibrium, and with an insulated hose), the water at the top level would drop to the triple point of water, 32 F and 0.088 psi absolute, at which you have in equilibrium liquid water, vapor water (steam), and ice. Don't worry; you'll never see this happen in your GSHP water loop.

Trying to calculate an actual COP requires knowing actual power to the heat pump compressor and electronics, to the well pump, and to the blower motor. It's my understanding that the mfg tables for COP vs water flow and temperature and air flow and temperature do not include the blower motor, since that is a function of ductwork. If I assume the power and COP from the tables for my water and air info, I need pump and blower power numbers. I don't have any instrumentation on those. The blower is ECM, and the pump is part of the Franklin Subdrive 75 package. For just the HP, the COP is supposed to be around 4.8. I took a stab at estimating the pump power, assuming a pump efficiency typical of what a small pump gives, and I ballparked the overall COP at around 4, but this doesn't include blower power. With proper instrumentation to get total power, and assuming the small rotameter showing water flow is accurate, I could get overall COP from the entering and leaving water temperatures. For the blower power, I'd correct the COP value ignoring it by adding those equivalent BTUs to both the delivered heat (numerator) and power used, since the unit is within conditioned space and that's where the blower power goes. The pump power is assumed lost to the outside surroundings. I suspect I'd have trouble getting a better COP by trying to measure air flow in/out and the temperature rise. The air flow across the rectangular duct won't be uniform.
 
When we had the last cold spell my ground loops went down to EWT of 29 and LWT of 26. We had a warm day and we got like an inch of rain. The ground loop went up to EWT of 36 and LWT of 33. Right now I am hovering around EWT 31 and LWT 28(running in stage 1 most of the day)

I am running the pellet stove anytime it is below 5 degrees. This prevents the AUX electric from running.

My loop is protected down to 18 degrees and these systems can extract heat just fine down to these temps
 
Since the total pressure drop for just the lines and HP is a lot less than 40 psi, that device has to take the rest, and in doing so it made a lot of noise from the turbulence, far more than the HP itself, which is a barely audible hum anywhere else in the house. I resolved the noise issue by partly shutting the two isolation valves for water to/from the HP, thus distributing the pressure drop over the flow controller and the two valves. The noise mostly goes away with that simple adjustment.

Not clear if you mean all the noise is diminished or the original hum still remains. Am suspecting you mean the latter. Am glad you brought this up because I've wondered about the noise difference with a GSHP vs. ASHP where the (noise making) compressor is outside.

Not that it's unbearable or anything -- have lived for years with thru-the-wall air conditioners. So am imagining a GSHP would be similar in a way, not as quiet as having the compressor outside.
Maybe I should inquire what type of compressor is used, piston or scroll, that might make a difference.
 
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Dave, the compressor hum, not really noticed at all more than 10 feet away, is unaffected and still there when it's running, but that's such a quiet hum that it isn't an issue. If it were inside a closet, I doubt anyone would hear it. A microwave oven makes more noise. The water constant flow device makes an awfully loud hiss when it takes the bulk of the pressure drop of the loop. I just grabbed the handles of two isolation valves and turned them together toward shutoff. At some point, the hiss from the flow controller mostly goes away, and if I go further toward shutoff then the valves start in with the same noise. So I set them halfway between, where total water flow noise is minimized. I imagine that if I had a separate booster pump for domestic water, with the well pump delivering just enough head to feed the HP loop, then I wouldn't hear much of any water noise at all. As things are now, with the HP and piping at the end of the utility space in the basement level, I don't really know if the thing is running unless I stick my ear inside the doorway or I put my hand down low over a floor register. The duct

The inside part of a minisplit ASHP is said to be very quiet, barely audible, while the outside unit has both the compressor and a fan. The fan has to move a fair amount of air, and I imagine the fan makes more noise than the compressor, as with any outside AC unit. I can't really say how noisy the outside unit of a minisplit is, as I've not seen one in operation.
 
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On my ASHP, the compressor is louder than the fan....the fan is nice white noise, the compressor makes a variety of buzzing and knocking noises, depending on the refrigerant temp/pressure, and whether it is frozen to its shock mounts, etc. I am sure a geo is quieter and more consistent.
 
One of favorite things about GSHPs is the lack of noise created outdoors.
I've spent many summers in neighborhoods in hotter climates hearing nothing but outdoor condenser units and cicadas--neither of which I like.

Edit: We were unlucky enough with one house that our neighbor's condenser units were both on our side of their houses. Sometimes we could here 3 condenser units at once counting our own.
 
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One of favorite things about GSHPs is the lack of noise created outdoors.
I've spent many summers in neighborhoods in hotter climates hearing nothing but outdoor condenser units and cicadas--neither of which I like.

We agree. My unit is reasonably quiet under most weather conditions, quieter than most cars going by on the street, if I am more than 10' away. I have found and installed a third party acoustic blanket to put on the scroll compressor (for the neighbors benefit), which helps a good bit. But in heavy icing conditions it can still get a little loud. On the bright side, the noise pollution it causes is a lot less persistent than the CO2 pollution it prevents.
 
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