We might want a wood stove. Do we actually?

[williaty]

I'm the OP, since this thread has gone crazy overnight.

1) Very small delta-T is how this geothermal furnace is supposed to operate. It runs at 300% thermal-to-electric efficiency by barely changing the air temp at all and just doing it forever to sneak up on the target temperature.

2) I don't intend to be self-sufficient off a lot this small. It's more like I've got standing dead and recently toppled trees that I have to get rid of one way or another and burning them for heat sure beats paying the trash people to take the chunks away. I figure anything I mange to process is just free wood to dilute the cost of buying the bulk of my wood.

3) I'm honestly not sure we have room to store 8-12 cords of wood. We're very short of space that isn't a bog, creek, pond, or near vertical. I hadn't thought of that. I was hoping I could buy and stack in mid-spring and have that ready by mid-fall. I didn't realize wood dealers delivered wood that wet.

4) Definitely going to have to be a free-standing wood stove as our house is really weird and the walls aren't vertical.

5) No pellet stove. Being able to get rid of the wood we need to clear out of the property and being able to have heat when the power is out are priorities. Pellet stoves can't do either.

6) Appearance wise, we love the modern looking stoves like the Moroso 7990, The Pacific Energy Neo, and the Hearthstone Lima 8150. However, all these stoves seem to be smaller and offer shorter runtimes and less heat. Are there any sufficiently large stoves with that sort of look?

 

[CRE10]

1 degree is absurd and totally false. Do you know your air supply and return temperatures? Do you know your water in and water out temperatures? Type of loop field? How many tons is the unit? Is it variable speed blower? Single or two stage compressor?

 

[williaty]

We have no way of getting the water temps, which does annoy me. It's an open loop (pump and dump) from our well to our pond. 3.5 tons.

 

[F4jock]

I'm the OP, since this thread has gone crazy overnight.

1) Very small delta-T is how this geothermal furnace is supposed to operate. It runs at 300% thermal-to-electric efficiency by barely changing the air temp at all and just doing it forever to sneak up on the target temperature.

2) I don't intend to be self-sufficient off a lot this small. It's more like I've got standing dead and recently toppled trees that I have to get rid of one way or another and burning them for heat sure beats paying the trash people to take the chunks away. I figure anything I mange to process is just free wood to dilute the cost of buying the bulk of my wood.

3) I'm honestly not sure we have room to store 8-12 cords of wood. We're very short of space that isn't a bog, creek, pond, or near vertical. I hadn't thought of that. I was hoping I could buy and stack in mid-spring and have that ready by mid-fall. I didn't realize wood dealers delivered wood that wet.

4) Definitely going to have to be a free-standing wood stove as our house is really weird and the walls aren't vertical.

5) No pellet stove. Being able to get rid of the wood we need to clear out of the property and being able to have heat when the power is out are priorities. Pellet stoves can't do either.

6) Appearance wise, we love the modern looking stoves like the Moroso 7990, The Pacific Energy Neo, and the Hearthstone Lima 8150. However, all these stoves seem to be smaller and offer shorter runtimes and less heat. Are there any sufficiently large stoves with that sort of look?

Since I can no longer follow the OP'S logic I'm bowing out. Best wishes.

 

[williaty]

Since I can no longer follow the OP'S logic I'm bowing out. Best wishes.

What part do you consider illogical?

 

[CRE10]

I think a wood stove is great and everyone should have one, but I think you should have a knowledgeable technician trouble shoot your geo unit and home's envelope first. Basically abandoning it is silly. That would be like be scrapping my truck if it needed new tires or oil. Within 10 minutes a technician could answer the questions I asked and you could have information on what your unit is or isn't doing.

 

[jatoxico]

I'm the OP, since this thread has gone crazy overnight.


2) I don't intend to be self-sufficient off a lot this small. It's more like I've got standing dead and recently toppled trees that I have to get rid of one way or another and burning them for heat sure beats paying the trash people to take the chunks away. I figure anything I mange to process is just free wood to dilute the cost of buying the bulk of my wood.

3) I'm honestly not sure we have room to store 8-12 cords of wood. We're very short of space that isn't a bog, creek, pond, or near vertical. I hadn't thought of that. I was hoping I could buy and stack in mid-spring and have that ready by mid-fall. I didn't realize wood dealers delivered wood that wet.

4) Definitely going to have to be a free-standing wood stove as our house is really weird and the walls aren't vertical.

BTW welcome williaty. Remember you are on a forum of wood burning "enthusiasts" (myself included) so some of the information/suggestions are for for people of like mind and some who are burning full time.

You seem like a good candidate for a wood burner and may become every bit as enthusiastic as others here.But you don't have to make it a lifestyle and you don't need to have 12 cords of wood on hand that has been drying since 1987 to be successful. On the other hand take some of the advice to heart. Burn dry wood. Give the wood 12-18 months after splitting to be ready. If you end up burning 1-2 cords a year you will put good dent in your heating bills and will be warmer. If you had 4 cords on rotation you could do fine. Give the system a sweep once a year, maybe twice the first year until you know how your system works and more than likely you'll be good to go.

If you roll back your estimated dry time by several months and are able to get whatever stove you select installed correctly you'll have a positive experience and a happy wife.

 

[claydogg84]

What part do you consider illogical?

He wants you to buy a pellet stove. I don't know much about the geothermal heat, but the new building where I work had it installed and the secretaries hate it. Most of them use small electric space heaters under their desks because the geo does exactly what yours does. What sort of burn times are you realistically looking for?

 

[bholler]

I totally agree with you jatoxico. It would be best if you could get 3 years ahead but it is not necessary I am only a year ahead and it works fine. We have many customers that get theirs in early spring and they get by ok.

 

[bholler]

I also agree with cre19 get the geothermal working better as well and work on sealing the home better

 

[williaty]

What sort of burn times are you realistically looking for?

Pie in the sky? Maybe 12 hours where the last 4-6 of that it's ok if it tapers off pretty heavy as that'd be after my wife went to bed.

Minimum to make me happy? Probably light it at 4pm and hold reasonable heat to 10pm. So that's about 6 hours of real heat and if it crashes after that, it's ok.

FWIW, I'm a noob at this and I don't really know if everything I'm assuming is right. I'm assuming that since I see a lot of people saying basically to leave the fire alone and don't open the door, that I basically load as much wood as I think I need for the night, light it, get it stable, and then wait for all the wood to burn up/go out/cool down and then reload it. That's the context in which I mean I need to to be hot for the length of time I stated above.

Now, if there's a way to take the thing that's burning along merrily and somehow open the door to add a couple of splits without unleashing fire and smoke into the house (or pissing the stove off) and then keep on trucking, I'd be perfectly willing to add wood every 4 hours and just keep the whole thing hot for 12 hours a day.

 

[Osagebndr]

Check out jotul if you want looks . Maybe carabasset or Oslo . As far as wood goes ash, cherry maple usually season relatively quick

 

[williaty]

Check out jotul if you want looks . Maybe carabasset or Oslo . As far as wood goes ash, cherry maple usually season relatively quick

We have TONS of ash coming down. The Emerald Ash Borer just swept through. I've got about 20 very large, mature, dead ash trees just standing there. Each time we have a big wind, one or more comes down. The problem is they take healthy stuff with them so I'm trying to get them down in an orderly fashion so they don't hurt the rest of the woods.

 

[DougA]

Burn dry wood. Give the wood 12-18 months after splitting to be ready. If you end up burning 1-2 cords a year you will put good dent in your heating bills and will be warmer. If you had 4 cords on rotation you could do fine. Give the system a sweep once a year, maybe twice the first year until you know how your system works and more than likely you'll be good to go.

EXACTLY. Over thinking causes headaches.

I'm no expert on geothermal but I did catch one quote. His system is 'pump & dump' Our well water comes from 160' down and is pretty much mid to low 50's all year. That's where goethermal works great, but is very expensive to install. Our pond is shallow and is mid 30's after a few weeks of bitterly cold weather. The OP was talking about swamps and I suspect his well is not deep enough to support geothermal effectively in the winter. Pump & dump systems are much cheaper but not good when the water source is too cold. Just speculating.

A decent sized wood stove will change everything.

 

[northwinds]

snip


I'm honestly not sure we have room to store 8-12 cords of wood. We're very short of space that isn't a bog, creek, pond, or near vertical. I hadn't thought of that. I was hoping I could buy and stack in mid-spring and have that ready by mid-fall. I didn't realize wood dealers delivered wood that wet.

snip

It's common for wood dealers to deliver wood that has been very recently split. It may have been sitting around in log or round form for quite a long time, but wood doesn't start dropping its internal moisture until it's been split and stacked.

In my opinion, keeping 3 years supply makes things much easier in terms of operating a stove. You can order oak or hickory or any type of hardwood, and it's going to burn well after 2-3 years of seasoning. If you order year-to-year, you just need to be more careful about certain types of slow-drying hardwoods and also single row stack in the sun and wind. The most common complaint in this forum for new stove users is wood that isn't seasoned enough. There's more than one way to solve that problem, if space is limited.

None of this is rocket science. I'm confident that you will be a successful woodburner.

 

[claydogg84]

6 hours of decent heat should be easily had with most new stoves. I have a Jotul Oslo and after 6 hours temps are easily below 300 and the heat output is hardly there. I wanted the F600 but couldn't fit it in my fireplace. You'll pay more money for a cast stove over a steel for sure as well. Plenty of information to be had on these forums, so keep asking and you'll keep getting an array of responses.

 

[bholler]

In my opinion, keeping 3 years supply makes things much easier in terms of operating a stove. You can order oak or hickory or any type of hardwood, and it's going to burn well after 2-3 years of seasoning. If you order year-to-year, you just need to be more careful about certain types of slow-drying hardwoods and also single row stack in the sun and wind. The most common complaint in this forum for new stove users is wood that isn't seasoned enough. There's more than one way to solve that problem, if space is limited.

Yeah 3 years a head would be the best but many people including me dont have the room for it. Your suggestions for speeding it up are right on i split pretty small stack single deep with lots of airflow and i am fine i do have some stacks of hickory and locust i let go longer for really cold weather

 

[jatoxico]

Pie in the sky? Maybe 12 hours where the last 4-6 of that it's ok if it tapers off pretty heavy as that'd be after my wife went to bed.

Minimum to make me happy? Probably light it at 4pm and hold reasonable heat to 10pm. So that's about 6 hours of real heat and if it crashes after that, it's ok.

FWIW, I'm a noob at this and I don't really know if everything I'm assuming is right. I'm assuming that since I see a lot of people saying basically to leave the fire alone and don't open the door, that I basically load as much wood as I think I need for the night, light it, get it stable, and then wait for all the wood to burn up/go out/cool down and then reload it. That's the context in which I mean I need to to be hot for the length of time I stated above.

Now, if there's a way to take the thing that's burning along merrily and somehow open the door to add a couple of splits without unleashing fire and smoke into the house (or pissing the stove off) and then keep on trucking, I'd be perfectly willing to add wood every 4 hours and just keep the whole thing hot for 12 hours a day.

Your expectations are not unrealistic. As many here told me, fire box size dictates burn time. Catalytic stoves can achieve much longer burn times than tube stoves. There are pros and cons to both as always. But even a smallish tube stove can get 4-6 hrs pretty easily. You can feed the stove two ways depending on what your trying to do. Nothing stopping you from building a smallish fire that you feed more frequently or in the same stove, stuffing it to the gills to go for max burn time. That's part of the learning curve.

 

[jeff_t]

A couple more modern looking stoves.

The PE Fusion is based on the same proven firebox as the Super 27/Alderlea T5
http://www.pacificenergy.net/products/wood/stoves/fusion/

And a BK. Same firebox as the Ashford, which is currently the rage.
http://www.blazeking.com/EN/wood-chinook.html

 

[gyrfalcon]

Pie in the sky? Maybe 12 hours where the last 4-6 of that it's ok if it tapers off pretty heavy as that'd be after my wife went to bed.

Minimum to make me happy? Probably light it at 4pm and hold reasonable heat to 10pm. So that's about 6 hours of real heat and if it crashes after that, it's ok.

FWIW, I'm a noob at this and I don't really know if everything I'm assuming is right. I'm assuming that since I see a lot of people saying basically to leave the fire alone and don't open the door, that I basically load as much wood as I think I need for the night, light it, get it stable, and then wait for all the wood to burn up/go out/cool down and then reload it. That's the context in which I mean I need to to be hot for the length of time I stated above.

Now, if there's a way to take the thing that's burning along merrily and somehow open the door to add a couple of splits without unleashing fire and smoke into the house (or pissing the stove off) and then keep on trucking, I'd be perfectly willing to add wood every 4 hours and just keep the whole thing hot for 12 hours a day.

That's all basically true, but be forewarned it may take you a year or so to get comfortable with the way your stove works and what kind of firewood it likes (species, size of splits, etc.), when to reload, when to open/close down the air, etc. But also be aware that running a woodstove will not give you the equivalent of thermostat-controlled even heat throughout the house, or even in the stove room. You have to be able to live with that to like heating with wood, and some people just aren't. It's not like a simple electrical on/off appliance.

About the wood-- Unless you can find an honest kiln-dried supplier that doesn't charge an arm and a leg, you will need room to stack several years' worth of firewood outside to season. There's just no way around that.

If your stove/chimney are happy with each other, you can absolutely open the door and toss in more wood without unleashing fire and smoke into the house, but doing that before your fire cycle has finished will cause other problems you won't like. I'd suggest using the search box on this site for "fire cycle" to familiarize yourself with the way that works.

 

[bholler]

Here is another i have installed a few and they look great
http://www.regency-fire.com/Products/Wood/Wood-Stoves/CS2400.aspx

 

[bholler]

About the wood-- Unless you can find an honest kiln-dried supplier that doesn't charge an arm and a leg, you will need room to stack several years' worth of firewood outside to season. There's just no way around that.

I am sorry but that is not true You can absolutely season some wood in a year and just about everything in 2 years. I agree with all of your other points but really once you get the hang of it none of that is a big deal. But it will take some time to get the hang of it and figure things out

 

[gyrfalcon]

I am sorry but that is not true You can absolutely season some wood in a year and just about everything in 2 years. I agree with all of your other points but really once you get the hang of it none of that is a big deal. But it will take some time to get the hang of it and figure things out

Yes, well, a couple or a few. But it depends on whether you have enough room to do it properly in single rows in sun and wind, and whether it's oak or something else, and how big your splits are, etc. The OP said he didn't have much good space for wood stacks, so he'd likely have to make triple rows or more, and it will take longer that way. I have plenty of room for single rows in full sun and daily wind, but because my property is on the side of a ridge and sloped, I don't have enough reasonably flat space to do it. It's unfortunate because most stuff dries in a year where I am.

The OP, never having been a burner before, needs to know before he plunges in that, as I said, this isn't a simple on/off electric appliance. Forewarned is forearmed!

 

[bholler]

The OP, never having been a burner before, needs to know before he plunges in that, as I said, this isn't a simple on/off electric appliance. Forewarned is forearmed!

Absolutely i agree totally I actually find it easier to find spots for single row stacks than multiple row ones but that will depend on the property. I didn't mean to jump on you about it but it bothers me a little when some people tell people that you absolutely need 3 years to get wood dry enough when it is not true i am sorry if i offended you.

 

[gyrfalcon]

Absolutely i agree totally I actually find it easier to find spots for single row stacks than multiple row ones but that will depend on the property. I didn't mean to jump on you about it but it bothers me a little when some people tell people that you absolutely need 3 years to get wood dry enough when it is not true i am sorry if i offended you.

Absolutely no offense taken. But as I say, how long the stuff needs to be outside to be ready to burn depends on a whole boatload of factors, including the regional climate and your micro-climate. Some people, given all those variations, really do need 3 years. Some of us, especially those of us who live in the country, are lucky and only need one. Most suburbanites, which I'm assuming the OP is, don't have that kind of room or exposure. An awful lot of people generalize from their own experience and assume it must be the same for everyone, hence the "3 years" people's assertions and way too many dumb arguments.