What do you all use for backup heat?

[NickW]

Electric baseboards at home (try like heck to keep them from kicking in), forced air NG in the new build up north.

 

[N.E.K. - D.D.S.]

Thank you everybody for the replies. It seems that geographic location is a huge factor in the range of solutions that people are using.

An oddball to consider is Toyostove vented "kerosene" heater. They can run kerosene or low sulfur heating oil. Its space heater similar to a wood stove but they are relatively cheap to install. They are popular up in Maine.

Those Toyotomi brand heaters are awesome. We used a lot of them in the Yukon (although Monitor brand was most common). They used oil... not sure if there were significant modifications on kerosene models. I would need one in each zone, although that might not be much worse than individual radiators and a boiler. The biggest problem is that the oil tank needs to be higher than the units, so they can be fed by gravity. My oil tank in the basement. Yes there are powered pumps to move the oil, but it gets to be a lot more hassle and less predictability (plus oil lines). So... maybe not good for this house.... but great for a different layout.

Odds are your basement has lots of air leaks from infiltration, even in your climate the temps should stay above freezing but my guess is given the age of the house, its granite or rubble foundation.

Yeah it is big stones for the foundation. It hasn't frozen, but gets near freezing close to the wall and floor. I can't get my head open to heating the space. I feel that the heat is going to suck right into the stones and into the earth (even with a bit of insulation on the top half of the basement wall).

the gas fireplace needs no electricity so if power goes out it still runs.. furnace is oil.. I dont like to run it.. I haven't burned a gallon yet.. gas is cheaper and vent free we get all the BTUs produced

Well, you have plumbed in gas, so it is a convenient and clean option. The preference (by some of us) for oil over gas is really an oil over PROPANE argument, because either one has to be delivered. In extreme climates, the oil is very predictable, and it can generally be too cold for outdoor propane tanks in the places that I used to work, so it was an easy decision.

Old coal boiler converted to oil 50+ years ago
I also run an electric radiator set at about 56F in that addition
If you only need a bit of pipe protection in the basement, you may be able to get away with an electric radiator as well.

I have a ton of exposed pipes. It is an unfinished basement, partially with dirt floor. Also, a big water reservoir filled by spring water that is constantly flowing.
Yeah, electric is expensive but it is costing me a TON of money in electricity (in addition to the oil cost) to run the blower on this furnace, which is blowing most of the time.

When one considers the cost of a furnace or boiler over its operating lifespan (compared to cheap electric equipment)... and then the time value of that money in upfront equipment costs... electricity may still be a more expensive form of heat, but it is not AS far off as many people suggest.
I am considering a boiler, because I will do it myself. But when I got some rough quotes early on.... no way would I pay that kind of money. I would sooner do electric.

I heat with wood, obviously to the forum, and my back up heat is also wood.
Last year was a total of 11 plus cords. This year I'm currently into my 6th. At this time, I am not currently heating the whole house. There are 5 of the bedrooms upstairs that are not insulated and still in plaster. These are closed off with old sheets doubled up, and tacked to the door frames with closed doors. There is no heat up stairs and the remaining 4 bdrms and bath, which have been remodeled are a comfortable 65*F. One bath down stairs and the living room with woodstove are in plaster. The kitchen, although insulated and sheet rocked, has no insulation under the floor over a very poor crawlspace. I plan on a IFC foundation in the very near future. Currently keeping the kitchen closed except when needed to use the room. Water gets turned off in the basement between uses to keep from freezing.

I have my work cut out for me. Did I mention I heat with wood.

That's a lot of wood. Are you in extreme climate? I could burn 6 cords here.

Electric baseboard here as well. My house is pretty small though at ~800 sq. ft. It's all I used until finally getting a wood stove installed for this season.

I had intentions of installing a mini-split but I don't need AC and the payback over the electric baseboards is terrible... And even worse now that I have the wood stove.

What do you mean payback is terrible? Because of cost of the equipment? Or because the increased efficiency of heat pump over old fashioned resistant electric diminishes so much at cold temperatures?

I loved the idea of the mini splits, but despite constant claims that they are good even in cold climates, I just can't get the numbers to work out for me either.

Heat pump, very efficient down to about 25, then we often get the aux heat kicking on.

Yeah, it seems you can pull off the electric thing in that climate (past St. Louis... geting almost to the tenessee line, right?) We are going to -20 F tonight. A lot of the time it is around 0 (plus or minus) . We have not been above 25 in a while.


I think I need a lot of zones so I can just fill in some gaps between the wood stoves and bump up the heat in certain area... or keep it at 50 or so when the stoves burn out. I also like to heat the areas that we use as needed in this big house. It seems the only convenient way to do a million zones and thermostats is with a boiler... or with electric.

 

[N.E.K. - D.D.S.]

If it's only for keeping pipes from freezing, can I use unvented propane heaters connected to thermostat? Unvented heaters are usually the cheapest.

Um.... you mean the things that make fire? I am no expert but I would not be comfortable using this kind of heater unless they were supervised. Some people use them in their shops, barns, garage, etc. while working. I certainly would not leave the house and have these things going.

What I WOULD feel comfortable leaving on are the electric oil filled space heaters. Not the ones that look like a toaster with a heating element... but the ones that look like little metal radiators on wheels. I find the built in thermostats to be inaccurate but it is easy to add one in line (they even make plug in thermostats). I'd probably put some arc fault protection on the electrical line too. But this sort of thing is not likely to burn down a house.

One of the places I did itinerant work, I stayed in a little cabin with wood stove, Temperatures could get down to -40 easy. During my work day, we would leave an electric heater on in the bathroom (the only plumbing... but we are talking a pump and water delivery to a tank) and close the door to keep it at +40 or so. When we got back at night we would thaw it out with the stove. But, the electric heater kept the small bathroom from freezing.

Don't take this as pro advice. Some of the other people here will give official answer. I am just relaying some experience.

 

[all night moe]

That's a lot of wood. Are you in extreme climate? I could burn 6 cords here.

I'm in the hills of NY at 1300ft. Last year the hot air furnace, with its 24''x24''x4' deep fire box, did all it could to heat this 1830s partially remodeled farmhouse. Some rooms still have uninsulated plaster walls. All windows are original. Granted the wood was unwanted softwoods too. I put pieces in as large as I could handle.

 

[N.E.K. - D.D.S.]

I'm in the hills of NY at 1300ft. Last year the hot air furnace, with its 24''x24''x4' deep fire box, did all it could to heat this 1830s partially remodeled farmhouse. Some rooms still have uninsulated plaster walls. All windows are original. Granted the wood was unwanted softwoods too. I put pieces in as large as I could handle.

I also have a house of similar age.... approx 1850 on the new brick portion and probably earlier 1800s on the old wood portion.
You are lucky to have the original windows. I do too. Reglazing with real putty is so boring... but it helps a lot, and all it needs are exterior storm windows. Please don't get rid of the awesome windows for vinyl.

I understand how difficult it can be to heat these places.
I think I have just plaster on the inside and brick on the outside... but it holds the heat pretty well.

The wood portion is another story. There is insulation, but they took down the nice walls and put up crappy drywall. If I were in your shoes I would rather cut holes in exterior and blow insulation in from the outside. in addition to a bit of insulation, the plaster is so good for sound deadening and for absorbing humidity (and slowly releasing it) so it doesn't feel so hot in the summer.

So no backup heat there? I need something for when I am out of town. I am considering heating only one room and putting all the liquids in that one room.

 

[wjohn]

What do you mean payback is terrible? Because of cost of the equipment? Or because the increased efficiency of heat pump over old fashioned resistant electric diminishes so much at cold temperatures?

Yes, as I recall I was quoted around $4K (pre-pandemic supply chain issues pricing several years ago, too) for the mini-split install. I purchased three 1500W electric baseboard heaters for $60 total. The additional electricity usage of the baseboard heaters added up to about $300/year (small house, not constant cold in my location, and to be fair, I kept them set at 62 degrees).

Now with the wood stove it's looking like it should only be $150 worth of electric heating per year, and possibly less as I get more comfortable leaving the firebox full on days I have to leave the house. It makes it even harder to justify the capital for a mini-split - of course I would not be saving the full $150/year in electricity as the mini-splits would use more than $0 in electricity although not as much as the baseboards. Now, my payback for the wood stove install is not great either at something like 12 years, but I'm also keeping my house warmer than 62 and I just plain like wood heat.

I'm also batchin' it. If I wind up with someone else in the house (likely to want air conditioning), that would probably mean dropping the cash on the mini-split, sadly. Until then I'd rather put the cash towards higher priorities like cattle, a trailer, skid steer, pole barn, etc....

 

[Rusty18]

Propane tank and a blue flame wall stove in the basement, set high enough it’ll kick ok before anything in the house freezes up and it requires no electric. It will actually heat the whole house if we leave the door at the top of the steps open.
House was all electric till we moved in and we still run it as an all electric heat pump /strips, I burn the wood stove when I’m home.

I did the math at the start of last winter, cost me $0.003 more per 1k btus to heat with the heat strips vs the wall stove and propane. Since then the cost of propane has went up $1/gallon around here. My older brother lives it the sticks below Ashland ky and they can still get propane dirt cheap.

For upfront cost and ease of install I don’t think you can beat the baseboard heaters but they can also suck the power if you crank em up.

 

[Todd]

Propane wall furnace gets turned on when I’m not here otherwise it’s all wood heat. I have a small 120gl propane tank that gets filled once per year, just had it filled for $230. If I ever tire of firewood probably switch out the wood stove for a gas stove.

 

[all night moe]

I also have a house of similar age.... approx 1850 on the new brick portion and probably earlier 1800s on the old wood portion.
You are lucky to have the original windows. I do too. Reglazing with real putty is so boring... but it helps a lot, and all it needs are exterior storm windows. Please don't get rid of the awesome windows for vinyl.

I understand how difficult it can be to heat these places.
I think I have just plaster on the inside and brick on the outside... but it holds the heat pretty well.

The wood portion is another story. There is insulation, but they took down the nice walls and put up crappy drywall. If I were in your shoes I would rather cut holes in exterior and blow insulation in from the outside. in addition to a bit of insulation, the plaster is so good for sound deadening and for absorbing humidity (and slowly releasing it) so it doesn't feel so hot in the summer.

So no backup heat there? I need something for when I am out of town. I am considering heating only one room and putting all the liquids in that one room.

I'll be keeping the windows as is. Some have the pegs in the window panes to hold them open. Some use window weights and pockets. I'm going to eliminate the weights and insulate the pockets. Each of those window will have its own sticks of different lengths to haold them open. Most windows have their storms. I love that wavy glass.

Two thirds of house has 5/8'' sheetrock and insulation. Does a good job on sound deadening. There is supposedly insulation in between floors of the remolded rooms. More sound deadening.

I am keeping as much of this house as original as possible. At the same time it needs to be efficient. A lot of house to maintain....

 

[firefighterjake]

Oil boiler as my "back up" jheat . . . for those times when I am sick, too lazy, away or it is just wicked cold outside and the stove doesn't quite make enough heat from when I loaded it up at night until I reloaded it in the morning.

Basement has enough heat coming up from the ground normally . . . although when we have a few days straight of sub-zero temps I will run the oil boiler for a while to move some heated water through the pipes in the basement . . mostly for peace of mind.

 

[N.E.K. - D.D.S.]

Oil boiler as my "back up" jheat . . . for those times when I am sick, too lazy, away or it is just wicked cold outside and the stove doesn't quite make enough heat from when I loaded it up at night until I reloaded it in the morning.

Basement has enough heat coming up from the ground normally . . . although when we have a few days straight of sub-zero temps I will run the oil boiler for a while to move some heated water through the pipes in the basement . . mostly for peace of mind.

So even in your location, the basement is generally not freezing?
Mine has been 40 degrees, but getting down to 34 in some places during some of the cold days.

It seems to be quite cold where the spring water comes into the house. The water constantly flows and there is a big reservoir tub. The flowing water is cold at this time of year... so I wonder if this is cooling the basement.

Yes, as I recall I was quoted around $4K (pre-pandemic supply chain issues pricing several years ago, too) for the mini-split install. I purchased three 1500W electric baseboard heaters for $60 total. The additional electricity usage of the baseboard heaters added up to about $300/year (small house, not constant cold in my location, and to be fair, I kept them set at 62 degrees).

Now with the wood stove it's looking like it should only be $150 worth of electric heating per year, and possibly less as I get more comfortable leaving the firebox full on days I have to leave the house. It makes it even harder to justify the capital for a mini-split - of course I would not be saving the full $150/year in electricity as the mini-splits would use more than $0 in electricity although not as much as the baseboards. Now, my payback for the wood stove install is not great either at something like 12 years, but I'm also keeping my house warmer than 62 and I just plain like wood heat.

I'm also batchin' it. If I wind up with someone else in the house (likely to want air conditioning), that would probably mean dropping the cash on the mini-split, sadly. Until then I'd rather put the cash towards higher priorities like cattle, a trailer, skid steer, pole barn, etc....

I could certainly justify the mini split if it were being used for air conditioning.
For heat I could not justify the cost any kind of furnace or boiler in your situation... considering how little you are paying in electric.

 

[bholler]

If it's only for keeping pipes from freezing, can I use unvented propane heaters connected to thermostat? Unvented heaters are usually the cheapest.

Um.... you mean the things that make fire? I am no expert but I would not be comfortable using this kind of heater unless they were supervised. Some people use them in their shops, barns, garage, etc. while working. I certainly would not leave the house and have these things going.

What I WOULD feel comfortable leaving on are the electric oil filled space heaters. Not the ones that look like a toaster with a heating element... but the ones that look like little metal radiators on wheels. I find the built in thermostats to be inaccurate but it is easy to add one in line (they even make plug in thermostats). I'd probably put some arc fault protection on the electrical line too. But this sort of thing is not likely to burn down a house.

One of the places I did itinerant work, I stayed in a little cabin with wood stove, Temperatures could get down to -40 easy. During my work day, we would leave an electric heater on in the bathroom (the only plumbing... but we are talking a pump and water delivery to a tank) and close the door to keep it at +40 or so. When we got back at night we would thaw it out with the stove. But, the electric heater kept the small bathroom from freezing.

Don't take this as pro advice. Some of the other people here will give official answer. I am just relaying some experience.

Yeah there is no such thing as unvented fuel burning appliances. They are all vented somewhere. The ones called unvented are really house vented. And I personally don't want that in my home. And refuse to recommend anyone else do it

 

[begreen]

There are 5 of the bedrooms upstairs that are not insulated and still in plaster. These are closed off with old sheets doubled up, and tacked to the door frames with closed doors. There is no heat up stairs and the remaining 4 bdrms and bath,

Nine bedrooms? Is this an old hotel? How many sq ft are being heated?

 

[Caw]

I heat with wood, obviously to the forum, and my back up heat is also wood.
Last year was a total of 11 plus cords. This year I'm currently into my 6th. At this time, I am not currently heating the whole house. There are 5 of the bedrooms upstairs that are not insulated and still in plaster. These are closed off with old sheets doubled up, and tacked to the door frames with closed doors. There is no heat up stairs and the remaining 4 bdrms and bath, which have been remodeled are a comfortable 65*F. One bath down stairs and the living room with woodstove are in plaster. The kitchen, although insulated and sheet rocked, has no insulation under the floor over a very poor crawlspace. I plan on a IFC foundation in the very near future. Currently keeping the kitchen closed except when needed to use the room. Water gets turned off in the basement between uses to keep from freezing.

I have my work cut out for me. Did I mention I heat with wood.

Wow do you live in a mansion?

 

[Caw]

My house is a 1700 sq ft two story cape with an Osburn 1600 insert in the living fireplace. I burn about 4 cords a year give or take Oct - March depending on the weather. We have an unfinished basement that is unheated and usually around 45 degrees in the winter.

We have a Trane XR13 heat pump as my permanent heat/AC option. It's efficient down to 40 degrees with electric resistance heat that kicks on at 37 F. I like to run this set to 67 when its over 40 as it's cheap to run and does a good job. There is a vent into the basement so it does throw a touch of heat down there when it runs. The resistance heat is set for 63 degrees will only come on at if it gets below 0 at night and I don't get up early to load it at 5 am. Thankfully those temps are pretty rare here and when they do come (maybe 1-2 weeks a year total) I just get up a little earlier. I'd say it runs on average 5-10 hours a season. I take pride in using it as little as possible. Just on the days you reallllly want to stay in bed.

I think a wood above and a heat pump is an ideal combination if you live in a climate that requires both heat and AC. We have 4 distinct seasons here so it works really well for us. Ours is 15 years old and runs on r22 tho so it's pretty old. When it's time I'm going to upgrade to a R410a model that is efficient down to a little lower temp too.

 

[tlc1976]

Propane boiler that was put in when the house was built in 1985. Heats the unfinished basement as much as the living space and is very inefficient. So I keep it on standby during winter when both the days and nights are below freezing. Set it at 50f in case the stove were to go down. Totally shut it down the rest of the year. Pilot alone takes about 10 gallons a month.

 

[all night moe]

Nine bedrooms? Is this an old hotel? How many sq ft are being heated?

Wow do you live in a mansion?

I bought this place as a work in progress. Not a hotel nor a mansion. Just an old farmhouse. It is the oldest on this road. Dating back to the 1830s, I'm sure it owned much of the land on top of this hill. The original colonial, turned Victorian, measures approximately 25x45' and is two stories. First addition, 1906, adds in the total of bedrooms and also two story. Early 1920's, the 3rd addition, added on the rear, is now the kitchen and attached mud room. It is one story. Basement under origional house. The kitchen had a wood/cook stove and was the only source of its heat. Previouse owner removed and installed an electric range. Currently has no heat save for a couple of space heaters. House is 4500sq ft. With all that land, to farm and manage, the migrant workers had their own rooms.

Sometimes I hear these walls talk..
Just kidding .... but I sometimes wonder what they have seen.

 

[begreen]

Sounds like multiple generations were living under that roof. It would be great to dig up the history of the place. This is in NYS, right?

 

[all night moe]

Sounds like multiple generations were living under that roof. It would be great to dig up the history of the place. This is in NYS, right?

Yes it is.
The closest village church has the most history of this area. I did tree work there this past summer. i have to back for add on work. I'll be checking up on this house. The center of the actual town I live in is further away, and just a bump in the road. I asked the previous owner what was in the town. He just looked at me, shook his head while shrugging his shoulders. "Nothing."

I love the rural I live in. It's like being in old tymes. Peaceful. Many have told me for years, "You're an ole sole."

I started a thread with a little more info on it. This Old House.
@begreen I was thinking, maybe we could change it to a separate forum. For the DIY home owner. Kinda geared towards making a home more efficient, thus making the stove more efficient too. I see a lot of posts that end up in the stove and boiler forums about insulating houses and such. Any thread for home improvements. Thoughts?

 

[N.E.K. - D.D.S.]

Yeah there is no such thing as unvented fuel burning appliances. They are all vented somewhere. The ones called unvented are really house vented. And I personally don't want that in my home. And refuse to recommend anyone else do it

I agree with this.
The combustion products have to go somewhere.

When I moved in, there was a propane setup in one of the fireplaces.... ceramic "logs" with a propane burner. They plugged up the masonry chimney with insulation, which is understandable because otherwise it is like an open window. But this gas was being burned with no vent.

Gas is relatively clean compared to other fuels, but there was an incredible amount of black debris that accumulated at the fireplace opening from the burning.

People often say, "it is the same as your gas stove". That is true. They both vent right into the house. People can correct me if I am wrong, but I think the difference is the volume of fuel being burnt. Stove burners are a tolerable level, but this big fireplace was not.

I have other posts about the nightmare which is my furnace situation (wood portion has no draft) and when we moved it the oil burner was not working either. I was having spontaneous arcing (like lightning bolts} over my kitchen floor, and electrocuting myself about 5% of the time that I touched the handle to the furnace door. This is detailed in another post.

Anyway, we used the propane in some shoulder seasons to heat that living room. My wife and I both experienced headaches, and she had nausea, etc. We are obviously not using it anymore. I could open up the flue, but then it would provide almost zero heat.

I think ventless gas is wrong for your proposed application. What can work is one of the Rinnai or Monitor or Toyotomi units that use one small hole for air intake as well as exhaust (it is like a tube within a tube) and might only be 2" diameter or so. There are both gas and oil models. This is a more reliable and safe solution, as well as quite efficient.

If you need to go cheap, I think electric mineral oil filled space heater... the kind with NO visible heating element.

My house is a 1700 sq ft two story cape with an Osburn 1600 insert in the living fireplace. I burn about 4 cords a year give or take Oct - March depending on the weather. We have an unfinished basement that is unheated and usually around 45 degrees in the winter.

We have a Trane XR13 heat pump as my permanent heat/AC option. It's efficient down to 40 degrees with electric resistance heat that kicks on at 37 F. I like to run this set to 67 when its over 40 as it's cheap to run and does a good job. There is a vent into the basement so it does throw a touch of heat down there when it runs. The resistance heat is set for 63 degrees will only come on at if it gets below 0 at night and I don't get up early to load it at 5 am. Thankfully those temps are pretty rare here and when they do come (maybe 1-2 weeks a year total) I just get up a little earlier. I'd say it runs on average 5-10 hours a season. I take pride in using it as little as possible. Just on the days you reallllly want to stay in bed.

I think a wood above and a heat pump is an ideal combination if you live in a climate that requires both heat and AC. We have 4 distinct seasons here so it works really well for us. Ours is 15 years old and runs on r22 tho so it's pretty old. When it's time I'm going to upgrade to a R410a model that is efficient down to a little lower temp too.

Four cords seems about right. I can burn 6 here, but it is about 50% larger area. I do go through some oil too, but the climate here is pretty harsh.

The heat pump seems good for you, but it is just too cold here for half the year.

Propane boiler that was put in when the house was built in 1985. Heats the unfinished basement as much as the living space and is very inefficient. So I keep it on standby during winter when both the days and nights are below freezing. Set it at 50f in case the stove were to go down. Totally shut it down the rest of the year. Pilot alone takes about 10 gallons a month.

Wow! I wonder if it would be much better if you had a separate zone for the basement, or turned off the basement entirely.

You say thermostat set at 50. I assume this is in the main first floor living area?

So when you are burning wood, the thing probably doesn't kick on, right?
How cold is your basement when burning wood (and boiler not running)? No problem with freezing or very uncomfortable floors, etc.?

I bought this place as a work in progress. Not a hotel nor a mansion. Just an old farmhouse. It is the oldest on this road. Dating back to the 1830s, I'm sure it owned much of the land on top of this hill. The original colonial, turned Victorian, measures approximately 25x45' and is two stories. First addition, 1906, adds in the total of bedrooms and also two story. Early 1920's, the 3rd addition, added on the rear, is now the kitchen and attached mud room. It is one story. Basement under origional house. The kitchen had a wood/cook stove and was the only source of its heat. Previouse owner removed and installed an electric range. Currently has no heat save for a couple of space heaters. House is 4500sq ft. With all that land, to farm and manage, the migrant workers had their own rooms.

Sometimes I hear these walls talk..
Just kidding .... but I sometimes wonder what they have seen.

This is funny. When I first moved in here I described it as a cross between a "sho(i)tty old cabin and a mansion".
It is sort of like 'luxury camping'.
Man, all one level is rough. At least I get some heat from downstairs passing upstairs to the bedrooms, and with a goose down duvet it is comfortable for sleeping.
Removing that cook stove and replacing with only electric space heaters is probably a nightmare. Is any sort of chimney from the original stove still there and serviceable? I have a small antique stove in the kitchen and it works perfectly for that area.

As for talking walls.... well, I don't 'believe' in ghosts, yet I experienced a ton of paranormal activity when we moved in for a while. I mean, really intense things like stomping on the floor that can be heard and felt. Of course also the typical breezes, things moving by doorways, etc. When I first got security camera, the thing lit up like a Christmas tree with light orbs for a couple days. There were two instances of a sort of acoustic music that my wife and I both heard in the house, and there was no source of it in the middle of the silent night (checked inside and out).
ALL of it has stopped and it is cool now... I mean there is no trace of it anymore... and that is such a contrast to how very prevalent it was for the first year or so.

On a more normal level. there are certainly so many traces of the spirit of the people that were here before. The things they left behind... items, construction techniques, MASONRY, paint and wallpaper hidden in closets, etc., door latches touched and used by so many, the position of items, and of course plaster with horse hair.

 

[tlc1976]

Yes 50f on the main floor of the living space. Never have had it get cold enough to kick on yet.

Basement is bone chilling cold! Never froze pipes but it’s gotta be about 40f. Concrete floor and walls. But it’s just for storage and utilities. There isn’t a basement zone, but between the boiler itself and everything that emanates from the pipes on the way to the room radiators, the basement stays toasty when the boiler runs. And bleeds my wallet dry if I try to use it as primary heat. I’m satisfied with it as a standby backup.

 

[all night moe]

I agree with this.
The combustion products have to go somewhere.

When I moved in, there was a propane setup in one of the fireplaces.... ceramic "logs" with a propane burner. They plugged up the masonry chimney with insulation, which is understandable because otherwise it is like an open window. But this gas was being burned with no vent.

Gas is relatively clean compared to other fuels, but there was an incredible amount of black debris that accumulated at the fireplace opening from the burning.

People often say, "it is the same as your gas stove". That is true. They both vent right into the house. People can correct me if I am wrong, but I think the difference is the volume of fuel being burnt. Stove burners are a tolerable level, but this big fireplace was not.

I have other posts about the nightmare which is my furnace situation (wood portion has no draft) and when we moved it the oil burner was not working either. I was having spontaneous arcing (like lightning bolts} over my kitchen floor, and electrocuting myself about 5% of the time that I touched the handle to the furnace door. This is detailed in another post.

Anyway, we used the propane in some shoulder seasons to heat that living room. My wife and I both experienced headaches, and she had nausea, etc. We are obviously not using it anymore. I could open up the flue, but then it would provide almost zero heat.

I think ventless gas is wrong for your proposed application. What can work is one of the Rinnai or Monitor or Toyotomi units that use one small hole for air intake as well as exhaust (it is like a tube within a tube) and might only be 2" diameter or so. There are both gas and oil models. This is a more reliable and safe solution, as well as quite efficient.

If you need to go cheap, I think electric mineral oil filled space heater... the kind with NO visible heating element.


Four cords seems about right. I can burn 6 here, but it is about 50% larger area. I do go through some oil too, but the climate here is pretty harsh.

The heat pump seems good for you, but it is just too cold here for half the year.

Wow! I wonder if it would be much better if you had a separate zone for the basement, or turned off the basement entirely.

You say thermostat set at 50. I assume this is in the main first floor living area?

So when you are burning wood, the thing probably doesn't kick on, right?
How cold is your basement when burning wood (and boiler not running)? No problem with freezing or very uncomfortable floors, etc.?


This is funny. When I first moved in here I described it as a cross between a "sho(i)tty old cabin and a mansion".
It is sort of like 'luxury camping'.
Man, all one level is rough. At least I get some heat from downstairs passing upstairs to the bedrooms, and with a goose down duvet it is comfortable for sleeping.
Removing that cook stove and replacing with only electric space heaters is probably a nightmare. Is any sort of chimney from the original stove still there and serviceable? I have a small antique stove in the kitchen and it works perfectly for that area.

As for talking walls.... well, I don't 'believe' in ghosts, yet I experienced a ton of paranormal activity when we moved in for a while. I mean, really intense things like stomping on the floor that can be heard and felt. Of course also the typical breezes, things moving by doorways, etc. When I first got security camera, the thing lit up like a Christmas tree with light orbs for a couple days. There were two instances of a sort of acoustic music that my wife and I both heard in the house, and there was no source of it in the middle of the silent night (checked inside and out).
ALL of it has stopped and it is cool now... I mean there is no trace of it anymore... and that is such a contrast to how very prevalent it was for the first year or so.

On a more normal level. there are certainly so many traces of the spirit of the people that were here before. The things they left behind... items, construction techniques, MASONRY, paint and wallpaper hidden in closets, etc., door latches touched and used by so many, the position of items, and of course plaster with horse hair.

The old cook stove is sitting in the adjacent mudroom. More like am atatched shed. A true mudroom. Even if I dragged it back in, it is not enough to heat that room, in current condition. Besides, I removed the masonary chimney in anticipation for the foundation work. The pace heaters are temporary. This house is a work in progress.

The walls don't talk here. just one thing happens, and i have witnessed this. When working on the house, if the "ladies" are pleased you can smell aromas of sweet baking. Happened last fall when I put our old stove in the living room.

 

[N.E.K. - D.D.S.]

Yes 50f on the main floor of the living space. Never have had it get cold enough to kick on yet.

Basement is bone chilling cold! Never froze pipes but it’s gotta be about 40f. Concrete floor and walls. But it’s just for storage and utilities. There isn’t a basement zone, but between the boiler itself and everything that emanates from the pipes on the way to the room radiators, the basement stays toasty when the boiler runs. And bleeds my wallet dry if I try to use it as primary heat. I’m satisfied with it as a standby backup.

So you are not actively heating the basement.... no actual radiators down there... just ambient heat off the boiler and pipes... and yet it is still very expensive for you to run the boiler?? This is so surprising. I can't imagine what sort of system would be any better.

I wonder if newer boilers have less heat loss off the boiler itself. The mere fact that the basement is "toasty" certainly says something.
Do you have copper pipe? I can't imagine the loss off of PEX would be as terrible.

I wonder how much you would spend in comparison by running standard electric heaters upstairs. Everybody says how expensive they are, but for someone that reports high costs with that current setup, it really makes me wonder.

The old cook stove is sitting in the adjacent mudroom. More like am atatched shed. A true mudroom. Even if I dragged it back in, it is not enough to heat that room, in current condition. Besides, I removed the masonary chimney in anticipation for the foundation work. The pace heaters are temporary. This house is a work in progress.

The walls don't talk here. just one thing happens, and i have witnessed this. When working on the house, if the "ladies" are pleased you can smell aromas of sweet baking. Happened last fall when I put our old stove in the living room.

I agree the kitchen wood burning stove isn't anywhere near ideal for space heating anyway.
I like the idea of an actual mudroom. These days it is fashionable for people have them, but they just make it a regular room (but uglier).
The other thing I wish I had is an 'arctic entrance'. They prevent the cold winter air from rushing in.

I like having spaces that are ugly and functional (like the basement and barn) so that other living spaces can be kept organized and nice. It is almost impossible to keep an entire house organized. So a lot of people let the entire house turn into a dump.

Yes, I very much understand about "works in progress".

 

[firefighterjake]

N.E.K. . . . Answer to question.

That is correct. My basement does not get that cold. Then again it is a 1978 concrete block basement/dirt floor and I did seal up the joists with insulation and caulking. I've only had a couple of freeze up issues -- both on the first floor involving plumbing on exterior walls which was fixed with additional insulation.

 

[SmokyMountainHiker]

Heat pump with supplemental heat strips. I cringe when I hear them click on. The woodstove is in the basement and does a great job of heating the upstairs, but the occasional single digit day really makes it a struggle so the heat pump has to pick up the slack.