What is the largest insert I can purchase?

[gents]

I am not entirely sure how to measure my fireplace because it slopes inward in the back, is that standard? The fireplace opening is 34" wide 23.5" tall. The back of the fireplace begins sloping inward starting at 10" high, so if I measure at from the base the depth is 25" and if I measure from the top (of the opening) to the back it is 15". The damper is a 4" metal plate that opens upward.

As two side questions, does the damper have to be removed or can I just leave it open? I have seen some videos were it was removed and material was put in its place with a hole cut for the insert flue liner and I've seen others where they remove it completely, and some where they just leave it open.

I am also very open to recommendations on wood burning inserts. I am a new home owner and I am trying to go through this once. I am in Upstate NY and I have a 2 floor raised ranch 2.2k sq ft, the fireplace is on the bottom floor (semi-basement) on one end of the house. The living room/dining room/kitchen are above the fireplace room and I was considering cutting a small vent through the flooring to allow heat to rise to the upper floor.

 

[Sodbuster]

Bump to get to forum, many aspects will be based on clearances.

 

[illini81]

I just installed an insert in our fireplace. My fireplace also slopes inward at the back. I think that is standard.

Do you know the cross-sectional dimensions of your flue? That is going to impact what size insert you can install.

Most people on here are probably going to recommend that you remove the damper and add a blockoff plate (the material with a hole that you referred to) with insulation. This will greatly increase the heating performance of your insert (allows your insert to heat your home, instead of your chimney). Here are instructions on making a block off plate: https://www.hearth.com/talk/wiki/make-a-damper-sealing-block-off-plate/. I found the process to be relatively straightforward. The few hours or day that you spend on this will be worth the improved performance.

What is your goal with the stove? Occasional fires? 24/7 burning? Heating the whole house?

 

[yooper08]

Since it slopes in, you'll have to use the sloped depth at whatever height, not the base depth, unless you get an insert that is also sloped in the back. Since inserts have different heights, you'll need to know the depth at particular heights to ensure it fits.

As for the damper, it can be cut out to fit the liner, that's pretty normal. The material that replaces it, as illini mentioned, is the block off plate. They're highly recommended.

If you're looking to try to heat the entire house on a prolonged basis and not just an occasional fire, you'll want to look at something that has a firebox that is at least 2.0 cu ft. How well is the house insulated and sealed? What's the budget for the entire project? Keep in mind the liner and install can potentially cost just as much as the insert itself. That part tends to surprise people so leave yourself some room and/or start getting quotes for install, which will give you a better picture of how much you can spend on an insert.

How open is the floor plan and stairwell between the two levels? You may not need to cut a vent in the floor. I personally would wait until you get the insert in and start burning it to see if you even need to cut a vent. There are other ways to move heat around as well that don't require any mods to the house.

 

[gents]

I also have an oil tank so I plan on using the fireplace to primarily heat the living room/kitchen during the day while the heat is generally lower in the bedrooms, and then at night maybe keep a small fire going and let the oil heat the bedrooms while we sleep. There is a small hallway in the basement that has a 5 step staircase, the front door, and then another 5 steps to bring you to the main floor. It's pretty open so there's a good chance most of the heat will just rise into the foyer area and into the living room. The house is not insulated great, I have a lot of windows and most are very old. I do not plan on replacing them this winter.

A local store said that an install around here costs around $800 and the flue liner $600. I have a friend who is a contractor coming by to help me install a french drain this week so I'm going to ask him if he knows how to install this, if so I might save some money on the install there, trying to keep the job under 4k. I do not know the cross-sectional of the flue, is that something I can measure on my own?

There's also a wood storage built in next to the fireplace, do people recommend storing wood inside? https://i.imgur.com/OPZAJb4.jpg

 

[illini81]

With a budget of 4k, there will probably be a lot of inserts in your price range. I just installed an insert, and the whole project cost me about $3k.

I don’t know if you’ve found the “Stove Reviews” section of hearth.com yet. I found it very helpful for evaluating different stoves and manufacturers:

https://www.hearth.com/talk/ratings.php

This is just my 10 cents (probably more like 2 cents), but I would shoot for as big a firebox as you are able to fit in your fireplace, even though you aren’t looking to heat your whole house 24/7. With a 2200 sqft house, you probably aren’t going to end up with too big of a stove, and the larger the firebox, the better burn times you will get.

Do you have any wood on hand yet? If not, start buying/scrounging now. One of the mantras you will see repeated over and over on hearth.com (until you catch yourself repeating it in your sleep) is that dry wood is the number one most important factor in your wood burning experience.

 

[gents]

The previous owner left a little over a cord of wood that I recently split, it was extremely dry, must have been sitting there for years.

Since the maximum depth I can allot for is 15" I appear to be somewhat limited. I found these three that heat ~2000 square feet.

http://www.woodlanddirect.com/Firep...1402-Oakdale-Deluxe-EPA-Wood-Fireplace-Insert
http://www.woodlanddirect.com/Firep...wolf-EPI22-Economizer-EPA-Wood-Burning-Insert
http://www.woodlanddirect.com/Firep...replace-Inserts/Osburn-1800-Wood-Stove-Insert

I suppose that if one is shorter I can have extra depth accounting for the slope. Is anyone aware of inserts that are more wide than tall/deep? Any other recommendations would be great. I appreciate the help.

 

[Sodbuster]

More pictures would be nice, always helpful. Personally I'm not a fan of storing wood indoors, but that's just personal opinion. Many little bugs that look dead, magically come alive when warmed up, my wife would prefer they come alive inside the stove. Why are you limiting yourself to 15" depth? Inserts can extend out onto the hearth, you just need to make sure all clearance to combustibles are met.

 

[illini81]

Two quick thoughts for you:

1. The maximum depth you can count on is not 15” (unless I am misunderstanding). The maximum depth you can count on is the depth of your fireplace at the height of whatever insert you end up buying. For example, my 33”W X 28”H fireplace opening is 20” deep at the floor and 16” at the top. Since it is 18” at a height of 20”, I was able to consider a lot of inserts that I would have had to eliminate from consideration if I only looked at the 16” depth.
   
   
2. My insert is a little too big for my fireplace, and sticks out maybe half an inch. I didn’t realize this was an acceptable option, until another hearth.com member mentioned that his does as well. Because it’s such a small gap, it’s not noticeable. So if you’re a little short on the depth dimension, that’s ok.
   

 

[gents]

Here's the interior of the fireplace
And then two pictures of the damper

As you can see starting at the top of the second brick on the bottom (10" off the ground) the fireplace begins to slope inward until ultimately becoming a 4" hole for the damper. The 15" number i got was the depth of the fireplace at the top of the opening.

It looks like I can just fit the Osburn 2000 height wise, but it may stick out an inch. I may one day put a stone veneer over the brick so that would be even less of a problem in the future when I redo the room. Can the faceplates be moved back or are they mounted? Like this website says that the minimum depth of the Osburn 2000 is 16.1875", does that mean that the faceplate will be sticking out 1.2"? http://www.woodlanddirect.com/Firep...replace-Inserts/Osburn-2000-Wood-Stove-Insert

 

[illini81]

I think the height of your opening actually might be a problem. If your opening is 23.5" tall and the Osburn is 23 1/16" tall (if I'm reading the manual right), you're going to have a hard time connecting the stove to the liner. Not enough room to get your hands in there. I've only done one install (my own), so maybe there's a way to do that that I'm unaware of... but I don't see how that would work out.

The Pacific Energy T5 insert is a shorter stove that has a similar firebox size (2.2 vs. 2.4 I think) that is really highly rated. If I read it's manual correctly, it requires an overall height of 20 7/8" (which still would be tough, but might be doable?), and a depth of 17.625 at a height of 17.625. If I do my math right, your fireplace has a depth of 19.35" at a height of 17.625".

 

[RobbieB]

It can be done, you need to remove the tubes and baffle and use a "fixation kit"

 

[Sodbuster]

I think the height of your opening actually might be a problem. If your opening is 23.5" tall and the Osburn is 23 1/16" tall (if I'm reading the manual right), you're going to have a hard time connecting the stove to the liner. Not enough room to get your hands in there. I've only done one install (my own), so maybe there's a way to do that that I'm unaware of... but I don't see how that would work out.

The Pacific Energy T5 insert is a shorter stove that has a similar firebox size (2.2 vs. 2.4 I think) that is really highly rated. If I read it's manual correctly, it requires an overall height of 20 7/8" (which still would be tough, but might be doable?), and a depth of 17.625 at a height of 17.625. If I do my math right, your fireplace has a depth of 19.35" at a height of 17.625".

Definitely pay attention to the overall height, and make sure you can get your hands in there. Wives actually come in very hand for this.

 

[yooper08]

Looking at the manual for the 2000, the minimum opening needed is 23.375 x 28.875 x 15.75 (h*w*d), which means you're just an 1/8 taller than the minimum needed. Looking at the insert height, you'd have only 1" of play height wise which makes it pretty narrow. From the feedback I've gotten from installers here, the more play you have height wise the easier it is to install/work on. Could you squeeze it in? Probably, but you’ll want to be extra sure and be prepared for a harder job than something shorter.

One thing we haven’t discussed yet is your hearth. What’s the dimensions there?

 

[Stubblefire]

Make sure when looking at heights that u leave enough room to reach in through the opening and are able make the connection from the stove to the ss liner.

 

[Sodbuster]

It can be done, you need to remove the tubes and baffle and use a "fixation kit"

Sometimes a picture is worth 1000 words.

 

[gents]

The hearth is 16.5".

At 20" height the depth is roughly 18" so the Pacific energy should fit, even if it sticks out slightly and still give me room to make the connection. Any other recommendations around that size?

 

[Sodbuster]

PE is a great unit, do you have any dealers in your area? With stove's/inserts you do get what you pay for to a point, unless it's just to fancy it up.

 

[gents]

There is a local store but he seems kind of over priced. Didn't have a huge selection but was showing me a Jotul C 450 for $3000. Thats nearly $1000 more than the ones I linked earlier which seem to be able to serve a higher square footage.

 

[Sodbuster]

There is a local store but he seems kind of over priced. Didn't have a huge selection but was showing me a Jotul C 450 for $3000. Thats nearly $1000 more than the ones I linked earlier which seem to be able to serve a higher square footage.

Well, you can always make him an offer. Depending on the demand in your area, he may want the business. The local PE dealer I bought my stove from just went OOB, so that's not always an advantage. There are plenty of really good stoves out there to choose from, so take your time and find the right one. At the end of the day, it's a steel box that gets hot. Technology in terms of clean and efficient burn are pretty equal among the newer EPA stoves, I'm not even sure if you'd notice given the amount of input variables involved.

 

[illini81]

There is a local store but he seems kind of over priced. Didn't have a huge selection but was showing me a Jotul C 450 for $3000. Thats nearly $1000 more than the ones I linked earlier which seem to be able to serve a higher square footage.

Firebox for the Jotul C 450 is 2.07 cu ft. Definitely smaller than the Osburn 2000 (2.4 cu ft), so it makes sense that it would be rated for a smaller area.

Here's an older thread on the C 450: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/jotul-c450-kennebec-question.47952/

Small sample size, but it seems to be relatively highly reviewed. I almost bought the larger C 550, but ended up avoiding it because of some negative reviews.

 

[gents]

Since my fireplace's width also shrinks as I move to the back to 24" from 34" at the opening, would 24" be my minimum insert width?

 

[illini81]

Since my fireplace's width also shrinks as I move to the back to 24" from 34" at the opening, would 24" be my minimum insert width?

Depends on the depth of the insert. The Jotul C450, for example, seems to have an adjustable depth (see Fig 2 on pg. 6 of manual), with a min depth of 12.75". So for that insert, you'd need to make sure the width of the fireplace is at least 25.5" at a depth of 12.75". (Disclaimer - I barely skimmed the C450 manual, definitely check the #'s I pulled). And then you also have the option of having the surround a an inch or so in front of the face of the fireplace, as was mentioned in an earlier post.

 

[johnsopi]

I just installed the Osburne 1800. Nice looking but when it says 16" logs it means it.I bought from Osborn directly Liner kit,insulation for liner it was $2808 to the door. The Timberwolf says you can get 18" log that makes a huge differance. I am recutting 80% of my wood and not liking it.
With the wood cut down I get 4-5 hr burn time where I add wood and it keeps burning. The other thing is you have to M.T the ash out every other day. Over all I would get the stove that takes the biggest pieces. I am not unhappy with the Osburne 1800 but wish it took a bigger piece of wood. The install instuction are not well written.

 

[gents]

Okay so the width situation is the same as the depth situation, thanks. I'm leaning towards the Timberwolf EPI22, seems to have good efficiency, and the depth probably wont be an issue (just need to double check where the width is at 14" back). I'll only have an inch of clearance on the height but it looks like there is ways around that.