What's the Current Quality on Heat Pump Water Heaters?

[Otis B Driftwood]

We know about the GeoSpring Mk1 ... a qualified disaster. Then ...
GE surprises us all by repatriating production here and – VOiLA!
problem solved.

Or is it?

What's your make? Any issues? I wanna know 'cuz I'm STiLL mulling
DWH options. Hey, I've already paid through my nose with oil, what's a
few week's diff?

 

[STIHLY DAN]

I think state has a higher cop. But I am finishing my 3rd year with the geo and have had zero issues. I installed 3 others that have also had no issues, and everyone reports large savings. If there was an 80 gal option at the time I would have went with it, silly not to get the biggest when it comes to HP.

 

[woodgeek]

The consensus around here (in addition to the above), is that you can buy the geo at a big box store and buy the extended warranty. Lots of geospring users on here...1-2 users IIRC have had (minor) problems.

If you are on an older oil system now, and you can shut it down in the winter, your annual savings should be >$400, even with the current 'low' price of oil, and your expensive CT electricity.

Look for rebates from your local power co, CT, feds, etc. These can get

 

[sloeffle]

My plan is to buy one in the next month or so. I plan on getting an AO Smith / State Industries 50 gallon model. I can buy it cheaper than I can a GE and they seem to not have as many issues. Personally I am not a big GE fan due to having issues with some of their other appliances.

 

[Otis B Driftwood]

Woody: I'm gonna assume that since today is TAX DUE DAY,
the rebates are gonna dry up. Still ... I've read here many of you
have practically stolen them.

Sloef: EXACTLY. Remember, these things require COMPRESSORS.
Utterly unnecessary digital displays / motherboards aside, THANKS
useless marketing department, what's THE biggest fail in major
appliances? Right: COMPRESSORS. I look at my fridge every
day wondering when it's gonna blow. Again.

Appliances have been Sh!t the past coupla decades; "Customer Service"
non-existent. If I treated my customers the way these clowns have,
I woulda been SH!TCANNED a looong time ago. They really didn't
seem to care about legacy or reputation, did they?

 

[woodgeek]

My elec co rebate was them cutting me a check for $300. Not tax related.

 

[STIHLY DAN]

Most utilities around here have rebates of some sort. If a compressor craps the bed you just run on element. In 3 years I am far enough ahead that I could buy a new one and still have saved money, compared to not getting one at all.

 

[woodgeek]

My plan is to buy one in the next month or so. I plan on getting an AO Smith / State Industries 50 gallon model. I can buy it cheaper than I can a GE and they seem to not have as many issues. Personally I am not a big GE fan due to having issues with some of their other appliances.

My 3 yo AO Smith unit turned into a brick in the middle of February....no signs of life. They did a few diagnostics with me over the phone, FedExed be a new control board, and I replaced it.

 

[sloeffle]

My 3 yo AO Smith unit turned into a brick in the middle of February....no signs of life. They did a few diagnostics with me over the phone, FedExed be a new control board, and I replaced it.

I think we all can agree that appliances these days are made as cheap as possible so they can make money off of the extended warranty that they sell. I realize there are probably double the amount of GE HPHW's out there than AO Smith but if I were a guessing man the percentage of AO Smith HPHW's having issues is much smaller. I do like the idea of buying an American built product ( GE ) but since we live in a global economy ( it is probably built from 90% Chinese made parts ) that is not going to sway my decision back to GE after all of the issue I had with their POS refrigerator.

 

[Otis B Driftwood]

I hereby apply my verdict:

Unreliable.

As much as I hate paying the oil guy, I wouldn't sit well
with a technology that may crap out in the dead of winter.
The heating element? OK, but then why pay for the pump?

Seems as if these guys are pumping out more hot air than cool.

 

[woodgeek]

I hereby apply my verdict:

Unreliable.

As much as I hate paying the oil guy, I wouldn't sit well
with a technology that may crap out in the dead of winter.
The heating element? OK, but then why pay for the pump?

Seems as if these guys are pumping out more hot air than cool.

Gotta disagree here. In my case the HPWH saves me $1000/yr relative to the (now scrap) oil boiler.

The unit comes with a great warranty, AO Smith express sent me a new board for free and I was only out of HW for 36 hours. In terms of tech, its about as complicated as a window air-conditioner or refrigerator. And unlike a HVAC heat pump, it only has to run for a few hours a day.

Even with the high-end $2200 unit I got, that is a pretty good ROI. I am laughing all the way to the bank. The 2 hours I spent faffing with the board are still paying me handsomely.

If you can get a GE for a post rebate price of $500, with an extended warranty (parts and labor), and save $500/year relative to oil, you'd be nuts not to pull the trigger.

At my most conspiratorial, I wonder about all the negative geospring reviews. bad sampling (1% fault rate on 100000 units is 1000 pissed off people posting reviews). Or competition-paid sock puppets?

 

[woodgeek]

As much as I hate paying the oil guy, I wouldn't sit well
with a technology that may crap out in the dead of winter.

Of course, my 15 year old boiler would go on the fritz about once a year, needing a weekend repair call, and always needed a couple hundred $$ in parts. How's that for reliable tech that will crap out in the middle of winter.

 

[Otis B Driftwood]

I was only out of HW for 36 hours.

In February. Mrs Driftwood would punch me back to 1928 if that happened.

 

[sloeffle]

@woodgeek When your HPHW died, did the electric element(s) work or was the whole thing down ?

 

[Otis B Driftwood]

Of course, my 15 year old boiler would go on the fritz about once a year, needing a weekend repair call, and always needed a couple hundred $$ in parts. How's that for reliable tech that will crap out in the middle of winter.

Here, here. Us too. But that's like saying "don't invest in bonds in case
the US economy bombs". Well, if that happened we'd all be in a world
of p00p anyway. Ya gotta draw a line. I just think these pumps are a
little too sketchy. As always, YMMV.

In fact, we have a Burnham PV83. Not the PV7, mind you, but I'm sure
you heard. Knock on wood. That class action sure gave Burnham a black eye.

Our oil-fired water heater? Never a problem, ever.

That's why I'm thinkin' Rob's idea of an indirect with electric bkup
is a rational compromise. Plus, I can add a wood boiler down the
pike. Not likely though – limited space. Besides, Mrs Driftwood
may tell me where to pipe those logs.

 

[woodgeek]

@woodgeek When your HPHW died, did the electric element(s) work or was the whole thing down ?

There is just one control board, and it pulled enough current to pop a little on-board fuse. Replaced the fuse, the new one popped.

No control board power....it was a brick like it was powered off.

The next day I had a new board, swapped it in, and it fired right up.

 

[Otis B Driftwood]

That's anudder concern of mine: the wiring here was done by chimps.
Not chumps, chimps.

 

[STIHLY DAN]

I hereby apply my verdict:

Unreliable.

As much as I hate paying the oil guy, I wouldn't sit well
with a technology that may crap out in the dead of winter.
The heating element? OK, but then why pay for the pump?

Seems as if these guys are pumping out more hot air than cool.

Of all heat sources, I would bet that oil is the most unreliable. No sorry anything above #2 will be worse. I have to admit that when I saw a HPWH I didn't give it a thought, yah gimmick. When I found out there was a way to get one free, well then that's another story. That's the only reason I did it, purely by chance and I'm glad I did.

 

[mithesaint]

I've had my Geospring for about 9 months now with zero issues. Ohio didn't have all the rebates, so I paid pretty close to full price, but it's been worth it so far. I replaced a propane water heater that was costing me somewhere north of $500/ year to run.

In the four months I've actually analyzed my electric bill from year to year (December-March)...my electric bill went DOWN with the addition of the Geospring. I think it's because I have a damp basement, and the dehumidifier didn't need to run as often due to the Geospring. It should pay for itself in less than 2 years, and it's at least $500 bucks in the bank yearly after that. Works for me.

Go for it. EVERYTHING eventually breaks.

 

[sloeffle]

In the four months I've actually analyzed my electric bill from year to year (December-March)...my electric bill went DOWN with the addition of the Geospring. I think it's because I have a damp basement, and the dehumidifier didn't need to run as often due to the Geospring. It should pay for itself in less than 2 years, and it's at least $500 bucks in the bank yearly after that. Works for me.

If I add in the cost of not having to run to a dehumidifier for 3 - 4 months a year in my basement my ROI drop <3 years. I would agree that it is a no brainer.

 

[billb3]

We know about the GeoSpring Mk1 ... a qualified disaster. Then ...
GE surprises us all by repatriating production here and – VOiLA!
problem solved.

Or is it?

What's your make? Any issues? I wanna know 'cuz I'm STiLL mulling
DWH options. Hey, I've already paid through my nose with oil, what's a
few week's diff?

I stuck with oil and with electric at $0.285/kwh am glad I did.
93% efficient oil boiler/ dual coil water tank with the bottom coil connected to a solar panel.
If I could have switched to nat gas I would have.

 

[woodgeek]

I stuck with oil and with electric at $0.285/kwh am glad I did.
93% efficient oil boiler/ dual coil water tank with the bottom coil connected to a solar panel.
If I could have switched to nat gas I would have.

How much oil do you burn in the summer?

 

[tom in maine]

I have been associated with HeatingstuffLLC for a while. They had been selling Nyletherms. They now are selling new Etech HPWH, which the Nyletherm copied.
Here is a link: (broken link removed)
The Etech seems to be a bit quieter to me. The controls are hand wired and the build quality looks good to me. We use them in our shop for DHW and to keep things dry whenever summer comes.

These units tie into your tank. So when the tank leaks, you do not toss the HP.

 

[Otis B Driftwood]

I would bet that oil is the most unreliable.

Technically or philosophically?

I believe oil will still be here for the life duration of whatever I get.
No, I'd only use #2.

 

[Otis B Driftwood]

Go for it. EVERYTHING eventually breaks.

Sooner than later anymore. I'd like to think we're finally entering a long-
overdue golden age of appliance durability, but that's after the cost of going
through a period of feeding landfills the size of Texas, not to mention the
utterly unnecessary destruction of our manufacturing base.

I believe you guys, but one good year won't inform the next twenty.
Installation costs alone, it's gotta be the right choice.