What's the Real Deal on Insulation?

[Bill_G]

I am going to replace a gas direct vent fireplace with a wood burner, not an insert. I am looking for any feedback on the Hearthstone soapstone units. I understand about the thermal inertia (burn alot of wood before you start to feel heat). I have already successfully heated an 1800+ home in Wisconsin with wood for almost 3 heating seasons, so I know that I will be keeping the fire warm almost all the time. I am interested in news about flaws or problems with that manufacturer. My info so far has been positive.
I also am interested in the issue of insulation - Hearthstone says the pad beneath their unit must be a minimum of 2.5, and when I look online at DIY projects, the R numbers for the materials don't add up. Is there something I am overthinking/misunderstanding?
Thanks

 

[begreen]

Hearthstone makes nice stoves. The main complaints have been about weak or wearing hinges and latch assemblies. Regular lubrication of both may help defray issues. Another soapstone stove to consider would be the Woodstock Progress Hybrid. It is sold direct direct from Woodstock which has a very good reputation for customer support. It also has a bit easier hearth insulation requirement.

To build a hearthpad at R-2.5 you most likely will need to use a layer of mineral insulation by Micore with layers of cement board on top of that.

 

[DougA]

I have been running a Hearthstone Equinox for a little over a year and I would agree with begreen on his comments. I have spoken to support at Hearthstone 3 times and they have always been very thorough and patient.
I operated a cast iron stove for 30 yrs. and soapstone does take longer to produce heat but the heat is so much nicer. My guess is 20 to 30 min extra. I have posted a few times that a soapstone stove is not a good choice for someone who wants to burn a few times a week but you are looking for "almost all the time". The extra time to hear up is more than offset at the end when the stove will remain warm for many hours after the coals are done.
The other advantage is that soapstone is less dangerous if you have small children around. It's still very hot and you must be careful but last Monday my 2 yr old granddaughter touched the stove, even after we thought she knew better. Yes she cried but amazingly, no burns. It would have been serious if it was a steel stove.

The only change I wish I could make is that I would prefer to have a cat. I purposely bought an oversized stove which is wonderful when there's a super cold spell like last week but a large stove is a bit of a pain in the shoulder seasons when you just want 'some' heat.

 

[webby3650]

Hearthstone no longer requires an Rvalue to the hearth on most of their stoves. What stove are you considering?

I service many hearthstones each year, I rarely see one that doesn't have a cracked stone somewhere on the stove. They consider it "normal" as long as you can't see light through it.. I personally think they are too fragile and susceptible to damage.

The Woodstock stove mentioned above has a steel firebox that's wrapped in soapstone. That's a much more durable design.

 

[quotejso]

Hearthstone no longer requires an Rvalue to the hearth on most of their stoves. What stove are you considering?

I service many hearthstones each year, I rarely see one that doesn't have a cracked stone somewhere on the stove. They consider it "normal" as long as you can't see light through it.. I personally think they are too fragile and susceptible to damage.

The Woodstock stove mentioned above has a steel firebox that's wrapped in soapstone. That's a much more durable design.

The progress has a cast iron frame, but no steel firebox its soapstone inside and out. You may be referring to the ideal steel.

 

[webby3650]

The progress has a cast iron frame, but no steel firebox its soapstone inside and out. You may be referring to the ideal steel.

I thought the progress also had a steel firebox?

 

[quotejso]

I thought the progress also had a steel firebox?

There are steel frames inside the box, you may be right however, I believe its just cast iron and soapstone. I think I watched a short video on how its put together, I dont remeber a steel box more like a puzzle.

 

[begreen]

That is how I remember it. A stone clad castiron skeleton with stainless baffle and cat assembly.

 

[begreen]

Found the inner pics -
http://blog.woodstove.com/2011/08/first-progress-hybrid-real-burn.html

 

[quotejso]

Thanks I was looking for that it does seem to kind of have a steel jacket.

 

[webby3650]

It appears to have a steel body with cast iron internals, soapstone cladding. That's how I had thought it had been described to me.

 

[Bill_G]

Thanks for all the feedback, I do understand that soapstone requires some tempering at the beginning of each season, and especially when the stove is new. I have always been told to steer clear of catalytic stoves, that they are more trouble than they are worth. What are the real world experiences there, good and bad.

Back to my insulation issues, every YouTube I watch shows someone building a plywood pedestal with mastic and tile over that. All the stoves I see require more protection than that, or am I over-generalizing? Lastly, when I see a stove that requires 8" clearance on the sides and 12" in back, (to flammable material), can someone give me a basic explanation on how that distance is reduced with protectant materials like Skamotec or mineral wool? Is there a table that shows a distance reduction vs R value increase?
Thanks again
Bill

 

[webby3650]

Modern stoves have tested clearances to a combustible. These clearances can't be encroached on at all. You need to stick to the listed clearances.
Most new stoves only require ember protection, not an R-value. I really feel that Hearthstone stoves are very vulnerable and easier to damage than any other stove out there. It wouldn't be my first choice. I've just seen too many cracked stoves from seemingly responsible owners.

 

[Bill_G]

Modern stoves have tested clearances to a combustible. These clearances can't be encroached on at all. You need to stick to the listed clearances.
Most new stoves only require ember protection, not an R-value. I really feel that Hearthstone stoves are very vulnerable and easier to damage than any other stove out there. It wouldn't be my first choice. I've just seen too many cracked stoves from seemingly responsible owners.

Thanks BLaze King,
You have looked at a fair number of stoves, so what is your opinion of the catalyst v non-catalyst issue. I know there are always advances in materials. I also have heard that a minor error in a he use of a catalyst stove can trash the catalyst, is this still a reality?
Thanks

 

[quotejso]

Thanks BLaze King,
You have looked at a fair number of stoves, so what is your opinion of the catalyst v non-catalyst issue. I know there are always advances in materials. I also have heard that a minor error in a he use of a catalyst stove can trash the catalyst, is this still a reality?
Thanks

The new steel cats are bulletproof I bang mine on the porch it's fine.

 

[webby3650]

With modern cat stoves there is no real concern with damaging the cat. Burn good dry wood, no trash, no problem! Cat stoves will deliver big heat if needed, but can be turned down to a very slow smolder without smoking up the neighborhood. Cat stoves are ideal in my opinion.

 

[Rearscreen]

Yeah I had it in my stupid head not to get involved with cat stoves. Now that I have one you will never see me not have one.

 

[jetsam]

what is your opinion of the catalyst v non-catalyst issue.

Same status as the steam engine vs internal combustion engine issue and the bronze vs iron issue.

 

[begreen]

With modern cat stoves there is no real concern with damaging the cat. Burn good dry wood, no trash, no problem! Cat stoves will deliver big heat if needed, but can be turned down to a very slow smolder without smoking up the neighborhood. Cat stoves are ideal in my opinion.

Hmm, you might want to qualify that with your previous cat hybrid stove, no?

 

[webby3650]

Hmm, you might want to qualify that with your previous cat hybrid stove, no?

True, not all cat stoves are created equal. Don't buy a Lopi Cape Cod! How's that? Better?

 

[electrathon]

I have a hearthstone stove. It is a very pretty stove. From what I see with it compared to other stoves I would not buy one again. When I come home and the stove is cold it takes a long time to "warm up" the room/house. I am totally convinced that much of the heat that would transfer into the room on a cast stove does not have the time/ability to move from the firebox to the room, so it goes up the chimney. If it wasn't for the glass door on it I don't think you could every get the house up to temp when it is cold.

 

[webby3650]

I have a hearthstone stove. It is a very pretty stove. From what I see with it compared to other stoves I would not buy one again. When I come home and the stove is cold it takes a long time to "warm up" the room/house. I am totally convinced that much of the heat that would transfer into the room on a cast stove does not have the time/ability to move from the firebox to the room, so it goes up the chimney. If it wasn't for the glass door on it I don't think you could every get the house up to temp when it is cold.

I had the same experience. While it held heat for a decent amount of time, it took soooo long to get a cold house back to temperature. I can do it in less than an hour with my Blaze King.

 

[DougA]

I had the same experience. While it held heat for a decent amount of time, it took soooo long to get a cold house back to temperature. I can do it in less than an hour with my Blaze King.

That sounds wrong from my experience. Check out this post:
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/getting-a-hearthstone-up-to-600°.76166/
I can attest to the same time frame on my Hearthstone.

 

[webby3650]

That sounds wrong from my experience. Check out this post:
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/getting-a-hearthstone-up-to-600°.76166/
I can attest to the same time frame on my Hearthstone.

Ive had experience with almost every type of stove. I don't need to read through an entire thread to support my personal experience. Soapstone is not for me..

 

[quotejso]

The progress cranks out heat very fast inferno like demon fire