Where did all the power go?

begreen Posted By begreen, Feb 17, 2018 at 12:15 PM

  1. begreen

    begreen
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  2. vinny11950

    vinny11950
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    The more we have, the more we use. All these technological breakthroughs in efficiency just lead to more use of what has become cheaper.
     
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  3. begreen

    begreen
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    Kind of like when a low calorie cookie that still tastes good comes out. Oh boy, now I can eat twice as much of them!
     
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  4. vinny11950

    vinny11950
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    Remember when email first came out and some people predicted it would save paper because people wouldn't have to write letters anymore? Well that was done in by the cheap printers that allow more people to hit everything they want.
     
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  5. Cynnergy

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  6. Circus

    Circus
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    Spending tWh of electricity on something of no intrinsic value. We're insane. Scarcity for currency could be made with something that's has limited availability and worthless. Car for sale 25000 FNC (finger nail clippings)
    Now there's malware going around hijacking personal computers to mine bitcoins so the miners don't have to pay for electricity, buy powerful computers or worry about overheating.
     
  7. begreen

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    High end animators are pissed because there are no top end NVidia cards on the market. They have all been snapped up by bitcoin miners that use the gpus to crunch numbers.
     
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  8. Brian26

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    I visited Iceland last year. The entire country is run by renewable energy mostly geothermal. My tour guide said there is a massive amount of data centers being built because of it.
     
  9. begreen

    begreen
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    I've been advocating for our regional power company to build a geothermal plant instead of a new gas plant.
     
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  10. CaptSpiff

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    What are the economics on that?
     
  11. begreen

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  12. CaptSpiff

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    Those economics worked well under the prior vertical Utility structure where they made a 10-11% ROI on anything they built.

    Now Generators are supposed to be independent producers offering their energy at market prices. Building a power plant in a high electricity cost location can bring in huge profits, until a transmission line is brought in and the power plant becomes an idle eyesore. The bankers know this, so financing for anything like Geo/Nuc/Hydro will be nearly impossible going forward.
     
  13. georgepds

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    I think you are underestimating the difficulty of getting permits for a new transmission line

    Reference the northern pass line in new England
     
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  14. CaptSpiff

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    Nope, I'm not, and you're right... it is super difficult.
    Northern Pass (and its alternatives) is a Kill Shot to 20% of the existing legacy power plants in the Mass and surrounding region. And those legacy plants fund a lot of local services thru their taxes, especially school taxes. So opposition is deep and can come from some surprising sources.

    But lines do get built. Here's a 500Kv line from Pa to NJ that was recently commissioned:
    http://www.tdworld.com/transmission/power-new-jersey-protection-nature

    My point was that financing a Power plant in the private sector is much more difficult than under the old Utility model. Unless firm PPA's (Power Purchase Agreements) are set up with guarantees, and then we're right back to where we were pre-deregulation.
     
  15. georgepds

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    You seem to suggest that the opposition is from power plants. While this makes sense, my understanding is the principal opposition is from the residents of Northern NH who did not want a HV transmission line in their neighborhood
     
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