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Posted By dafattkidd,
Jul 17, 2011 at 6:25 AM
You just can't get the power out of the 12 valve without a ton of money
Ray I could of and should of worded it different. :red:
A newer truck is a hell of alot more money along with all of the deletes to pass emmisions for that era of which the truck was built.
Cheers. Now back to the OP.
N of 60
Don't sweat it North I've enjoyed your posts over the years.. Hoping we can help make a newbie's decision an informed one but as you said also check the manufacturer's site as we tend to be a bit biased.. I just hope my T-5 performs better than my old CDW..
With your hard woods it should serve you well. And thanks..........
I didn't buy a cat stove because North of 60 has one. :coolgrin:
Good one Bart!
I was ignorant to the benefits of a cat stove. Even here at the hearth, there weren't many advocates for cat tech. It seems that every year has its champion stove and the year I got here it was a PE summit, in whorehouse red if I recall correctly.
All of the local dealerships sell non-cats. Heck, to this day almost all of the major brands are non-cat only. Nobody's daddy had a cat stove in my area.
Our "generation" is the first to discover cat stoves so converting the masses will take time.
If I could start over, I would fit a BK princess in my home. Now, I've ruined my wife making her think that stoves should be attractive. It will be a hard sell to put an ugly BK in the living room.
:lol: I was able to sell mine on the family room. I don't think I would've had much luck on the living room and it's far from what I consider formal. Good thing that room wouldn't work well for heating.
Me too, thanks North. Kept me from not buying a cat stove because of a bad experience.
OK gonna let the dogs out on this one.....The reason most people didn't buy a cat stove is that it was too hard to obtain the CAT operators ticket that is required to operate these difficult stoves. As for you BB the next exam will be multiple choice with one answer. SIMPLE You will now get your chance. :lol:
Cheers and thanks Solar.
I'm surprised BB passed the non cat exam. :lol:
we have one of each and neither stove is set it and forget it. i wait about the same amount of time to enguage the cat as i do to cut back the air . they both accomplish the same task. more heat , complete burn on less wood.
Ya should see the PM I got when North of 60 first joined and I peed on his cat stove. :lol:
BTW: Big honkin steel non-cats rule! :smirk:
That didnt bug me so much BB as that you left your cheek marks on it when ya sat down to do it.
Now back to the OP
i have both...the price of precious metals are making cat replacement more expensive each year..this year woodstock went to stainless,which contains less precious metals,so it is cheaper...tried it, i dont like it..new ceramic cost over 200 bucks..this year i'm liking the non cat alot more.
That would only be at the most 2 cords of wood you would have to save/burn less over a +5yr minimum span to pay for itself which is very easy to do in the 2nd year if you burn 5 cords or more. So another +.
Back to the OP. So why didn't you buy a cat stove.
In my 26 years dealing stoves i either burned em or sold em all. This meant that I dealt with many folks who I wish had one tenth the knowledge of the group I am writing to now. I am still surprised there weren't more unlucky folks burning their homes down with some of the stupid things I saw. To cut to the bone here I was the one who sold/installed/maintained/and provided warranty. I cant say that the chimney belonging to the cat user was any cleaner than the one owned by the non cat user. I also did not find a difference in stove types ( cast vs. steel/soapstone). What I did see was that my educating success directly affected the overall performance, cleanliness of burn, and overall safety of these systems over a two and a half decade relationship as a service provider. It took me many years to learn how to convey proper usage. The start up being the most important. First is it clean......chimney fires suck! Next start with only an 8 x 11 piece of paper shredded into strips and lightly crumpled in a pile. Next build the old boyscout house of sticks. If you have a down drafting situation light a piece of paper as close to the chimney bottom as possible to start the draft. Then light the fire. Gradually increase the size of your kindling. The rule I taught was simple 2, 4, 8 in 40 or less. At 200 the bricks are black from carbon, at 400 the bricks burn clean, by 800 the window is clean....all in 40 minutes (or less). once 800 is attained adjust the air flow as low as possible without smoke, or very little......nirvana achieved! For cat users......NO COLORED PAPER. NO CAT UNTIL THE 800 IS ACHIEVED. My preference is non cat as there is less to maintain. Average consumers can't even get it together to change their oil for gods sake, they certainly wont know what to do with a second lever, nor how to properly maintain a cat....and replacement just doesn't happen. Should you encounter a chimney fire.........CALMLY........toss a coffee cup of water on the fire and shut the door, do this repeatedly until the fire is out from the steam blasts. By the time the fire department shows up you either saved your home or they are keeping it from taking your neighbors house as well. I witnessed first hand what fire does to three human beings who died in front of my helpless face. KEEP YOUR HOME SAFE< KEEP YOUR CHIMNEY CLEAN!
I bought a non cat because I work for a Lopi dealer (lead installer). Travis industries has what they call the Comfort Care Program, which gives employees a great offer on any stove they sell. Picked up my Liberty and 18' of class A w/tee for 1800.00 Owner sold me pipe for cost.
Nothing against anyone here whatsoever.
I talked to a guy who has burned and been in the business for well over 30 years. He listened to me spout about all of the things I've learned here and other places. He sells lots of stoves. You name it, pellet, coal and wood. We talked in length on a couple of occasions. I really got the feeling he knew what he was talking about. The one thing he said after listening to my copy and pastes of all the stuff I've read about was... "Hold on"..... He said "I can tell you right now, it's the real experience, not internet research, that gives one the advantage on what works and what doesn't". He did seem to know alot about what stoves were good and which were not so great. He also wasn't concerned about agreeing that my Hearthstone was a good stove even though he didn't sell them. He likes Inviro inserts because they live up to and exceed their specs. He also loves Blaze King.... I'm getting to my point....
He also knows a lot about chimneys and draft..
But then when we talked about installing an insert, he said I didn't really need a liner.
I brought up the fact that without a liner it would be harder to clean the chimney. I could tell he knew that but for some reason he still said I didn't need the liner. He shook his head in negativity when I said I would want a full insulated liner.
Then when I was talking about the chimney for my Equinox which requires an 8" flue, he said you can use a 6" flue with no issue. We walked outside and he looked at my tricky roof situation and didn't even blink and eye, saying "You need two elbows to get up higher on the roof". In reality there is no way elbows will even come close to fitting in there, something I thought as a life long sales and installer, he would recognize.
AND THE POINT....
Even people who have been doing this for their entire life may not have the best advice. I'm not saying what he told me would not work... except the elbow situation, but that even the massively experienced might not have the best advice in a given situation.
It didn't take a long time for me to decide to not get a cat stove. Maybe it should have taken longer so I might have made a more educated decision. I just don't want the maintenance (cleaning, replacing) and extra cost associated with it along with the burn material restrictions. I'll take the slight performance hit to keeping the government out of my living room. I know if I got a cat stove I would be seeing Al Gore in the flames.
Get a smaller cat stove, Al won't fit in mine. I always thought those BK Kings were too big.
I guess I can't participate in this thread, because I did buy a cat stove, so I will just be reading.
The govt. is why the Equinox will burn cleaner and that was Nixon who made the EPA. The govt. also set the standards for safety that are code for your installation and flue. Now let's keep political opinions out of the thread or it will be closed.
These two sentences are ahead scratcher for me.
My Al Gore comment was tongue in cheek and not serious.
But seriously, the topic at hand is why you didn't buy a cat stove. We all know the reason for the cat in the first place was the government. I wasn't going any further with it but hey, there are a lot of people out there that resent a lot of things the government has and is doing. Clean air and more efficient use of energy is definitely one of the better things government has done and yes it is directly related to this subject.
I will refrain any further comment on this thread as I have already stated my reason.