Wood burner final decision

[Chad_lew]

Hey guys just wanted to update you on my decision on a wood burner. I went back and forth a lot on here between a Kuuma and a max caddy, I thought I made up my mind on a max caddy but then I went off the rails and decided to buy a outdoor wood boiler. Went to the local heatmaster dealer up the road from me and bought a c375 conventional style burner. Got it going Saturday and gotta say so far I really like it great burn times and good heat output plus heating the domestic water is nice too. Any ones got questions or wants some more feedback about the stove let me know I’ll tell you all the info I can

 

[maple1]

Wow - that's quite a difference in units & overall heating principals.

I hope you got a deal on it - I am sure the dealer was very happy to be able to get rid of a non-conventional burner.

Good luck!

 

[Chad_lew]

Wow - that's quite a difference in units & overall heating principals.

I hope you got a deal on it - I am sure the dealer was very happy to be able to get rid of a non-conventional burner.

Good luck!

He actually sells a lot of them. He struggles to keep them in stock. I considered a gassification unit very hard and almost pulled the trigger on it. I’m positive in my mind they are great units and have all the bugs worked out. It’s just my wood cutting habits don’t really support that style I try to stay ahead on wood and usually do pretty good about it but if I were to run low or even out I want to be able to cut and throw it in all in the same day if I really have to. Although hope that never happens

 

[maple1]

I thought they couldn't be sold anymore - I must still not have a grasp on all this EPA related stuff. Oh well.

Still - congrats & keep posted.

 

[StihlKicking]

Congrats on your new OWB. Believe it or not there are still a lot of people who run and prefer the old style non gassers me being one of them. My schedule doesn’t allow me to spend the time required to get 3-4 years ahead on fire wood either. I spend about 4 days every February getting my wood in for the next year. However these things do burn a tremendous amount of wood compared to the gasser models, they are not for the faint of heart. I have more than enough deadfall on my property to cover my heating needs every year. If I had to buy firewood or really get out and scrounge for it I would probably consider something more efficient. As it stands I like my setup. I burn 6-8 cords in 365 days heating my DHW year round. In a more brutal winter climate I would expect that rate to double.

 

[StihlKicking]

I thought they couldn't be sold anymore - I must still not have a grasp on all this EPA related stuff. Oh well.

Still - congrats & keep posted.

A lot of companies still manufacture them but brand them as “light commercial” units. The EPA only restricts their sale for domestic use. Once purchased people use them as they see fit.

 

[Chad_lew]

Yeah a way around it is labeling...mine is a c375 the c stands for coal which to my knowledge is still aloud. Now don’t ask what the difference in the c model and the mfe model are from heatmaster

 

[brenndatomu]

However these things do burn a tremendous amount of wood compared to the gasser models, they are not for the faint of heart.

Part of the reason for that is burning wet wood...its kind of a self perpetuating cycle...I know its a ton of work to get ahead, but if you keep after it a little at a time, pretty soon it adds up and you find yourself 3-4 (more?) years ahead and you find you have to start to be more picky about what you cut, because you are just running out of room...been there done that!
Another advantage to being ahead is not having to sweat it if you find yourself laid up with an injury...been there done that too! Having medical bills, and then heating bills to pay too...blah!

These companys using the "commercial" or "coal" loophole to keep selling this stuff just pizzes me off...IMO its not much different that what China is doing fouling up the environment with anything and everything, while (almost) everybody in USA is towing the line to the "enth" degree.
I would think it would be really discouraging as a wood heater manufacturer in the US, to actually try to do the right thing and follow the law, then have these yahoos sweep in and steal sales by ignoring the law.

 

[StihlKicking]

I stay 3 years ahead on firewood for my masonry fireplaces.

I bought my current OWB a few years ago right after the current EPA regulations went into effect. It was literally one of the last legitimate traditional OWB to roll off the assembly line and is grandfathered. I could have bought a gasser at close to the same price point but chose the traditional instead. Why? Because I like having the option of burning either 3 year old or 3 day old wood in it. If I get ahead 3 years great if I don’t, well as long as i can stand behind a saw I can keep my heater going. If I fall ill and can’t cut wood off of my own property the going rate for green firewood here is $100 a cord split, delivered and stacked. Still cheaper than paying utilities.

I completely understand the physics of why firewood dried to 20% or less is better but I also understand the physics of how a traditional OWB works. It’s a smoldering smoke belching beast operating at a low temperature with minimal storage. Dry wood is of very little advantage in this setup.

As far as the EPA goes they are less efficient than my old school OWB. All the combined emissions from wood heaters in the US over the period of one year still equals less than 1% of the emissions that the current wildfire in California is producing every minute. Maybe the EPA should ban California rather than worrying about what type of wood heater people use.

Capitalism. Smart companies build what sells, they sell them as light commercial and coal burning units. It’s up to the consumer to use them in compliance with current law and regulation.

 

[maple1]

IMO dry wood is always an advantage, and 'EPA' gasifiers will always be way more efficient all else being equal (each operated as they are intended to be). Although it was an indoor unit, I used to have an old dirty burner also. Wish I could get those years back.

If I could get processed wood for $100/cord, I would get 2-3 years ahead & stay ahead just on that alone. That's pretty darn cheap.

 

[hobbyheater]

I

. Dry wood is of very little advantage in this setup.

.

The advantage is you will burn considerably less wood with dry wood to achieve the same amount of heat delivered to your house! Water does not burn !

 

[salecker]

I stay 3 years ahead on firewood for my masonry fireplaces.

I
I completely understand the physics of why firewood dried to 20% or less is better but I also understand the physics of how a traditional OWB works. It’s a smoldering smoke belching beast operating at a low temperature with minimal storage. Dry wood is of very little advantage in this setup.

Funny how you feel achieving 25% more heat from the same amount of wood as very little advantage.
But i guess we tell ourselves whatever so we can feel good and sleep at night.

 

[StihlKicking]

If I could get processed wood for $100/cord, I would get 2-3 years ahead & stay ahead just on that alone. That's pretty darn cheap.

Yes there is no shortage of hardwoods in my part of the country. It’s easy to come by so people aren’t willing to pay much money for it.

This is my take on the old non gasser OWBs. They have little
Storage and only maintain a water temp of about 172 Fahrenheit. At that they basically operate off of smoldering temperatures with short bursts of intense heat as needed throughout the day to maintain water temp. My goal is to make the wood I fill the heater with in the morning last 14 hours till I return from work. If I fill the heater with 5 year dried white oak it will be empty in about 8 hours. Fill it full of year one oak and I have plenty left 14 hours later to add more wood to. If I were home everyday to hand fire the heater as needed or ran a lot of storage I have no doubt that dry wood would be more efficient. As it stands whatever will last the longest smoldering all day is the most convenient for me to use. Remember these machines are inefficient at the very core of their design. They will remain so regardless of what you burn in them.

I agree that the gassers burn about 1/3 less wood or at least the ones I have seen do.

 

[StihlKicking]

I have read that non EPA OWBs lose 70% of the heat they produce straight out the flu. If this is correct that means they are running at 30% efficiency assuming all other factors are perfect. If one gained 25% heat but lost 70% of it out the flu that would leave them with 7.5% efficiency gained.

Is my line of thinking flawed?

 

[Wood1Dennis]

I am really happy with my Caddy. So glad that I did not go with a non-EPA outdoor burner.
Mostly because my furnace it is so efficient. 4 cords heats my place all winter. As a result I get very little smoke. Most of the time if you pull up to my place you would never know I heat with wood.
It really is not a problem to get ahead and properly season fire wood when you have a nice efficient unit that extracts the heat from the wood instead of sending it up the chimney. If I burned twice as much I would not be able to get ahead either.
On my way to work I drive through a valley past a place with an old OWB. On almost any cold winter morning that valley is filled with smoke fog belching out of the OWB. I feel really bad for that guy's neighbors.