Wood-Burning Noob Looking For Advice

[MacinJosh]

Hi y'all!

My name is Josh and I stumbled across your forum while trying to do some research on wood stoves and everything that goes along with them. Fantastic site by the way. A bit overwhelming for a rookie but I imagine that's normal. Please excuse my ignorance on the subject because I don't know a great deal about stoves but that's why I'm here! I'm not new to Bulletin Boards, in fact, I'm on Bourbon and Whiskey ones every day. I use Tapatalk which I find very useful (until their most recent updates, ugh, but I digress). I know how annoying it can be when the new guy's first post is "Where can I buy Pappy Van Winkle" so mods, please accept my apology if this first post fits into that criteria. I tried to read as much of the forum rules as possible and hope I am posting in the right location. I browsed the site for awhile but didn't see a dedicated noob section so again, I'm sorry if this post is in the wrong place!

With that said, a little bit about me. I'm originally from southern Indiana but have lived on the North side of Indianapolis the past 10 years until we moved to the Louisville, KY area this past October when I changed jobs. We purchased a lovely home that is surrounded by about 10 acres of dense woods. Lots and lots and lots of good hardwood around from what I can tell. I plan on buying a chainsaw soon as spring is upon us and get to cutting. The house is about 40 years old but in very good shape. It needs some repairs here and there but I'm busy working on it. Just blew in attic insulation today that was desperately needed so I'm good to about an R40 now. Yay! Those $430 a month electric bills were killing me. All electric at my house now (had gas before) with a heat pump and man do I miss the warmth! A couple of reasons I want a stove. Lower bills and warmth!

I'm married with two young boys (both under 6). I'm an electrical engineer and tend to geek out over nerdy details. When I decide to get interested in something I generally go pedal to the floor. I'll read everything I can get my hands on. Look online, read books, talk to experts, etc. You get the idea. lol I just try to educate myself as much as possible. It looks to me like wood burning is as much a way of life as it is a heat source!

So a couple of things. The house was built in 1974. I had a fireplace expert come out to the house (found him on Angie's List). Nice guy. The house is all brick. The fireplace is in pretty bad shape I guess. Built way out of spec. He said he wouldn't advise using it for fires. Liking to not even draft and just dump smoke in the house. The flew is in bad shape and is oddly constructed. Bends at a 45 halfway up. Lots of spalling on the outside. Will need completely replaced at some point. Anyway.....his recommendation was a wood burning insert. Fantastic idea I thought! He suggested the Regency I2400 with a blower, etc. in order to get any use out of the fireplace at all. He would run a pipe inside the flew up to the chimney so the flew condition wasn't a big deal. And with the layout of my house, it could almost heat the entire thing by itself. I was convinced this was the way to go until my wife started expressing concerns about the kids. The fireplace is in the main living room and it would have to be gated off. Long story short, she REALLY didn't want a stove in there which is the main play area for the kids. Then I got to thinking that my neighbor told me this house used to have a wood stove down in the den. Her dad built the house and lived in it for years so she knows all about it. Well when he passed away, she removed the stove and patched the ceiling. She didn't think potential buyers would want it. BLASPHEMY! Well, the chimney is still on my roof (just one of those metal ones) and the stove pipe still runs from the attic, down the corner of an upstairs bedroom (boxed in by drywall) and then ends above the ceiling of the den. I just need to open the den ceiling to access it. I have a friend named Doug, who also lives in Kentucky, who installed his own wood stove and has been using it as his only heat source for years. I've been having hour long conversations with him and he is convinced the den is the perfect place for the stove (he did not know that chimney was there until I mentioned it recently). Before that, he had recommended the insert. The living room is at a higher level than the den (the house is a tri-level) and sits above our half basement. The den is on a concrete slab. His thinking was that's better since it would help heat the concrete and build a thermal mass. So he told me to scrap the insert idea and start the process of installing a stove down in the den. A free standing one. The kids are rarely in the den so perfect! Also, the den is on the ground floor and a sliding glass door leads right to the back patio to the woods for easy wood access.

He has an old school one (you can see it in the back of the picture) that kind of looks like the Fishers I've seen online. I have been looking at the Regency F5100 or the Blaze King just because I want a large one because I would like to use it to heat my whole house. My house is around 2200 sq ft excluding the 800 sq ft basement. 3 bedrooms upstairs and one bath.

So I have around 347,798,234 questions but I'll start with just a few. 1.) Where the heck do I start? hahaha This seems so overwhelming just to get started. 2.) What type of stove should I be looking for? The regency has some sort of catalytic combustor on it. Is that really needed? Do I need a blower? Wouldn't it be better to just use convection currents and a passive flow of heat so if the electricity goes out I'm still good? I plan to use all my surrounding woods to fuel this thing so what do I need to account for with that?

Anyway, if you made it this far through my long-winded intro, congrats! LOL I am an open book and look forward to learning anything and everything from you professionals! Attached are pictures of the stove pipe up in my attic, some pictures of my house and the woods layout. Also a picture of my friend Doug's stove.

Cheers!

 

[brad wilton]

give a drawing of your floor plans it will help with the advice,temps on average for winter in your area would help to

 

[bholler]

By looking at that chimney it looks like an old air cooled one but cant tell for sure if that is the case it would not be up to modern standards for a wood stove. You should have it checked out by a pro. Regardless you could always use the existing opening and run a new chimney for a freestanding stove.

 

[MacinJosh]

give a drawing of your floor plans it will help with the advice,temps on average for winter in your area would help to

Ok. Will do! Just give me some time to find the plans.

Average temps in Kentucky for the winter I say are anywhere between -5 and 30. We did have one really nasty cold snap around -20 but I'm told that is not normal around here. -2 yesterday was the coldest March in Louisville....ever. So I guess it can get pretty cold here. We get plenty of snow too.

 

[MacinJosh]

By looking at that chimney it looks like an old air cooled one but cant tell for sure if that is the case it would not be up to modern standards for a wood stove. You should have it checked out by a pro. Regardless you could always use the existing opening and run a new chimney for a freestanding stove.

Yeah, a pro checked it out and said its not safe to use for fire but would be fine for an insert.

I plan on using that second chimney in the den instead for a free standing stove. I may run a small propane tank outside to the fireplace just for aesthetics to get some use out of it. Not for heating purposes.

 

[begreen]

Don't worry about the kids. The room is large and the stove is at the far end. They will respect it, especially when it is hot.

 

[bholler]

Yeah, a pro checked it out and said its not safe to use for fire but would be fine for an insert.
I plan on using that second chimney in the den instead for a free standing stove. I may run a small propane tank outside to the fireplace just for aesthetics to get some use out of it. Not for heating purposes.

Yes i was referring to the metal prefab chimney i saw what you said about the fireplace and if it is unsuitable for a fire it is also unsuitable for a gas log set.

 

[MacinJosh]

Yes i was referring to the metal prefab chimney i saw what you said about the fireplace and if it is unsuitable for a fire it is also unsuitable for a gas log set.

Ah ok. I gotcha now. Sorry about that.

Well that's a bummer. I assumed a log fire would produce much less heat and not be a big issue but that was at the very bottom of my priority list anyway. I'd check with my local pro before installing that. I could be wrong but I thought I remembered him saying gas log would be ok. I think the main concern with wood fire was all the smoke.

 

[Grisu]

The first thing to do would be to get several cords of wood split and stacked in your yard in a spot where it is exposed to lots of sun and wind. Raise it from the ground, top cover it, and keep the splits at the smaller side (3" to 4"). Ash and softwoods would be best as those can dry sufficiently over one summer. Other species will need at least two summers to dry out (internal moisture of less than 20%). When you then drop in your chair in the evening, tired from all the hard work and with a beer in your hand, you can check the forum and other online sources for the best stove for your situation. You will have a good 6 months time to decide what's best.

That said, a few points to consider:
- Have the pipe checked out by a sweep. Is it still in a good enough condition? Is it approved for woodstove use (rated for 2100 F)? What inner diameter does it have? The stoves you mentioned would need an 8" pipe.
- The slab will not really serve as thermal mass but suck away quite a bit of the heat the stove will generate. Finishing the floor and getting some insulation in there will probably give you more heat with less wood.
- The stoves you are looking at will have the best chance of heating your entire house. However, it remains to be seen if the heat will really travel well.

 

[Dix]

What Grisu said.... start getting firewood now, even if you have to buy it. Get it stacked, and drying. You won't regret it.

Instead of the FP, , is there a spot for a honking huge free standing stove????

Might save you some grief in the long run.

+ 1 on the layout, it makes things easier to figure out.

Welcome to the forums !!

 

[Ashful]

On the kids, I'll never tell you what to do for your own kids, but I can relay my own situation.

Two stoves in this cave, and two kids. Oldest was 2 years old when we moved in, and then we had a second a two years later. Having grown up in a house with four fireplaces, I had no concern, but my wife was very worried about the kids around the stoves.

I'll just say, it's amazing to see how hardwired and primal the "too hot" instinct is. Both kids stay away from the stoves, and we have never had an issue with either of them getting too close to the stoves. One stove is in our family room, another in the den, and in fact the kids play area and toy boxes are right in front of the family room stove.

Once in a while, a balloon or ball will roll under the stove. You can see our 1-year old get frustrated, but she's too afraid of the stove to go retrieve it. Our 5-year old is well-trained to just come get mom or dad when this happens. Your kids are older, so short of any extenuating circumstances, I'd expect them to be very easily trained to do the same.

Thinking back to when we first moved in, my wife did try setting up barriers in front of each stove for a time, but quickly learned they were completely unnecessary. Again, this was our kids in our environment, situations (and kids) can vary. I can say I do not remember ever reading of a "my kid hugged a hot stove" story here, though.

 

[Grisu]

Same in my case. The youngest was 2.5 years when we started burning. Never any issues except she likes to climb on me. Thus, I had to tell her a few times that this was not happening when I was kneeling in front of the stove. However, one option is this one: http://www.amazon.com/KidCo-G3100-AutoClose-HearthGate-Black/dp/B00DQCESRU

Not sure how your den looks but an insert in that fireplace will be mighty appealing to just lounge on front of it in the evening.

 

[Dix]

NO, hot goes a long way, when reinforced.

 

[begreen]

We never did anything special with the stove for the kids as they were growing up. All I told them was Oweee!! and Hot!! and they got the message. My youngest however did singe his pajamas once. He loved to warm up his butt in front of the stove and lingered there too long once and only once.

 

[Poindexter]

Don't go crazy on an engineered drawing. Just get an 8.5x11 sheet, draw all three levels on it, in pencil by hand pretty good, measure your outside footprint and take one pic of all three floors on the one page. We can work with that.

I suspect your existing pipe from den through roof will need to be upgraded, but at least it is already chased off. Curious to see where you could put a stove on the intermediate floor.

If you want to burn wood 6-8 months from now start out by getting whatever you got for pine split and stacked in the next six to eight weeks or so. You are not going to get much of anything else seasoned for the coming winter.

Looks like a nice place, I don't see much point in heating the ground under your den, as previously opined.

 

[Oldman47]

Good advice about laying in a supply of wood real soon. The cost of your own firewood supply, by cutting downed trees and such, is a chain saw, something to split with and the tools to keep those things all working right. That means little things like a good way to sharpen a saw chain, wedges and a sledge to support you on those hard to split rounds, felling wedges to drop dead trees once you have made a felling cut, etc., etc. A chainsaw is not a minor purchase. I have a very old semi-pro chainsaw from the 1980s but am exploring the new technology semi-pro saws of today for my own use. Saw chains require daily touch ups if you use them much so a good rig to keep them sharp is a must. I am looking at buying a "stump vice" and a file guide like the Oregon 23820 model or a similar one. That means I am looking at about $35 just to be able to keep the chain sharp. A decent semi-pro chain saw will run over $500 new but sometimes you can find a used saw in good shape. You might be able to tell I have been focused on getting a good saw set-up this week. When it comes to advice on how to fell a tree, I find both the BC Faller instruction videos and the Husqvarna videos very informative.
As far as the kids. I have seen pictures of stoves with what looked like a wrought iron fence around them and anchored to the floor to keep curious kids away. I was actually surprised at how good they looked.
Stove size is up to you but try looking at the present heating system. I am sure any heating system has a heat output rating on it somewhere so think about how often it is on, what percentage of the time it is on and what its BTU rating is. I would examine that over one of the colder days in your home and then figure you want a stove at least big enough to provide that much heat when only running 2/3 of the time. No stove can be run wide open all the time after all.
Heat distribution is a problem I have yet to solve for my own home so I am not going to suggest anything for you. I live less than 300 miles north of Louvul so I am familiar with the weather you see. It is maybe 5ºF warmer than my local weather.
That R40 layer of blown in insulation is a great start but not optimal for our environment. I used the USDA charts and got R-60 blown in here. My walls are R-38 but I am working with new construction so I got to make it whatever I wanted within my budget.
I did not buy a cat stove but I was not here at the time I made my purchase. From what I have been reading the cat stoves seem to recover more heat from the wood than a non-cat stove but tend to run colder on the flue temperatures. That is how they are able to recover more heat because there are only so many BTUs in a pound of wood. A colder flue can be a challenge because it is more likely to condense any smoke present as creosote. A cold flue also means possible issues with draft. Even today I am not sure I would have gone that way but when I made that choice it was in a bit of a vacuum compared to what I have learned here.
Your picture of a flue pipe in an attic space that is obviously galvanized metal has me concerned. The class A listed chimney pipe that I used, one of the cheaper ones, was all stainless for the inside and the outside metal. I suspect you have a chimney pipe there that may have met older standards but not today's standards.

 

[MacinJosh]

Wow, great advice guys! Keep it coming!

I will have the flue pipe in the attic inspected for sure prior to any stove purchase. Obviously, I want to make sure it passes inspection prior to any use. Again, I'm at step 1 on this journey and found this forum at the very beginning of the process so I'm just gathering info and educating before I even get started.

Thanks for the advice on kids. My 6 year old would be fine but the wife is concerned with the 1 year old. She's also just not crazy about having a stove in the living room. And that's fine. It sounds like I have a better solution anyway but will wait to hear what y'all say. She was thrilled with the idea when I mentioned the den. Plus, I imagine the less you have to haul wood up and down stairs from the outside would be a plus, no?

I'll get a drawing of my floor plan to you guys soon. I think I have one from the appraisal. If not, I have the original prints for this house from 1974. I can snap pictures of it. And if that is too tough, I will free hand it on a sheet of paper like suggested above.

I will definitely look to buy a chain saw this spring and a means to keep it sharp. Stacking wood would be an easy first step to getting started I would think. Assume it needs to stay elevated to keep dry and from rotting or insect problems, etc. correct? Suggestions for the best way to do that?

Thanks guys!

 

[Oldman47]

Yes, you will want to protect the wood from rot as well as you can. The standard statement is that it should be in a well ventilated area with plenty of sun while it is seasoning. Once it gets to reasonable moisture levels it should be covered to prevent it being subjected to rain. Throughout the process people suggest the wood be placed elevated to allow air circulation under it typically by using wooden pallets. Other means to elevate it are fine but pallets are the most often what is suggested.

 

[littlericky]

Welcome Josh! Listen to the wisdom you're getting here, GET started on the wood asap even if you have to buy it just to get some drying. This wood burning is addictive and the closer you get to the heating season you will be getting excited to start burning in your new heater! But nothing is going to stop you in your tracks like WET wood It will take all the fun out of it and can be very frustrating to say the least. This was our second year of burning and now that my wood is seasoned with a MC of 15- 20% it is night and day difference. The first year i had to buy envy 8 bricks just to be able to burn and enjoy my heater. It is definitely a lifestyle and very rewarding when its cold out and you walk into your home and feel that heat

 

[Ashful]

Great advice, everyone. On the hauling thru the house, I have two stoves at opposite ends of a larger house (exactly 3x your house). The stove at the end of the house close to my wood supply is going 24/7. The stove at the far end of the house, half as often. You get the point.

BTW... there's no such thing as a semi-pro saw. You talkin' Farm and Ranch saws? Some do have the same magnesium split case as a pro saw, some don't. Overall, pro saw means magnesium case, higher hp/lb, better balance, and extras like better air cleaners, decomp, better one-piece bars, rim sprockets, and adjustable oiler. Farm and ranch saws are designed for similar durability, but while cutting costs that result in lower performance (eg more weight, laminated bars, spur sprockets, cheaper air cleaner and ignition components). Homeowner saws are generally short-life saws, in the hands of anyone processing several cords per year.

 

[brad wilton]

and make sure if you can to have one cord extra mother nature can be a bleep

 

[MacinJosh]

Thanks guys! So if we were to make a "Josh to-do list", it sounds like my first few action items should be to


1.) Contact my local fireplace pro and ask him to inspect my existing chimney that I plan to use for the stove.

2.) Purchase a chainsaw and start cutting up the lumber on my property. I was planning on starting with trees that are already down. Is this a good idea? I would think that would be easiest unless they are completely rotten, etc. Thoughts?

3.) Start stacking the wood. Can anyone post some pics of their setup so I have a mental picture of what I need to have? Ideas to keep it elevated? Someone mentioned palettes I believe? Where do I get those and are they treated so they won't rot?

Appreciate all the help guys. Really want to do this right the first time and make it work so I have a good wood burning experience. hehe

 

[saskwoodburner]

I'm a first year wood burner, so I'm just ahead of you on the curve. For trees that are already down, it's a crap shoot whether they'll be good or not. I pick and scrounge lots of dead fall so I guess it depends on you. A 20 foot tree on might have 10 feet of punk and 10 feet of stove ready wood. It might be all good, or it may be too far gone already. I like to have a hatchet, or a smaller diameter piece of wood, and bonk the log in several places. It's not an exact science but you'll soon notice the difference in sound.

Pallets can be found at many businesses, look around the back, or around loading areas, where a semi would unload. Or you could ask the manager if they have any junk pallets. They don't need to be very good, only to keep your wood off the ground and relatively level. You can find better pallets, usually blue or orange cpc or chep, but you'll have to pay for those I believe. You could also just cut lengths of tree, and put your wood on them.

 

[MacinJosh]

I'm a first year wood burner, so I'm just ahead of you on the curve. For trees that are already down, it's a crap shoot whether they'll be good or not. I pick and scrounge lots of dead fall so I guess it depends on you. A 20 foot tree on might have 10 feet of punk and 10 feet of stove ready wood. It might be all good, or it may be too far gone already. I like to have a hatchet, or a smaller diameter piece of wood, and bonk the log in several places. It's not an exact science but you'll soon notice the difference in sound.

I'm figuring this out quickly. Some of the down trees I've come across are good whike other are rotten and wet and spongy on the inside. I just burn those in the firepit.

 

[MacinJosh]

Ok guys, here's my crude floor plan sketch of the two lower levels of my house. Again, it is a tri-level. I did not include the upstairs floor plan but that's merely 3 bedrooms, a hallway and a full bath. Hopefully y'all get the idea. Sorry I had to free-hand it but I tried to draw it to scale the best I could. The Living Room and kitchen are at a higher elevation than the Den and Utility Room. Feel free to ask any follow up questions.

You can see where my Living Room fireplace is where I had originally intended to install an insert.

So when it comes to the stove location.....good? Bad? The Den and Utility room are on a concrete slab. The Living Room and Kitchen are above my basement. The Den door leading to the back patio is a sliding glass door.

Also, any suggestions on what type of stove to get or brand? What models does everyone like? All personal preference? Any to avoid?

As always, THANKS!!